The Death

[Tonks]

So, now that we've all read Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, we know who is no longer living.

What did you think of the death?
Are you very sad and will you really miss this character or could you not be happier that they are finally out of Harry's life?
Do you think there is some way they might come back?

Share anything and everything related to the newest death here!

[amyleigh13]

i cant believe she chose to kill him , i never thought it would be him ever, im still shocked about it

[mimbulus mimbletonia]

I'm not surprised, but I did cry :(

[kashlie]

I am close to tears, but I am also in shock over many things that happened, and didn't happen, as well as this death and some others.

[psychgirl83]

I don't believe its real. It's gotta be some sort of plot. The death was faked in order to subvert Voldemort and the Death Eaters. And to protect the "murderer". He had no other choice, because he had taken the Unbreakable Vow, but they cooked up some way that he could keep his vow and that no one would die. Its gotta be fake.

Or maybe I'm just still in the denial stage of dealing with death.....

[Boing]

I believe it and I think it was necessary. I also think we will see a bit of him in the next book, though. Through portraits and stuff.

I wasn't too upset about it as I was sort of expecting it.

As for the non-major deaths, they were a bit of a surprise, but also necessary to show how evil Voldemort and the DEs can be, and how cruel a war can be for those involved, innocent or guilty.

[Alz]

.... Can I gloat and say told you so yet? :D :D :D

Well, it was very sad - and when it happened even though I was kinda sure it would - it still didnt take away the shock of the situation ...
I mean - I wont lie here - I had a little tear in my eye after reading that bit - and well when I think of it now it still seems like a total shock to me ...
I always speculated that the story demaded it happen - it was logical to allow Harry to move forward but the means and manner of it still threw my for 6 ... I still cant believe how it happened ...

My mind does cast to JKR's comment about there wont be a serious impact from the death - but I think we can all see why she had to see it - but I also look at it as a 'white lie' ...

Other deaths were, as Boingy said, expected - I was shocked to find everyone fav for the MoM job had been killed ... that was the death I though JKR was eluding to as not making too much of an impact ..
We also saw the deaths of a few others - interesting that anoter 'Bones' got it as well - they were there from the first round of attacks when Voldemort was in power.

Overall this will be a traumatic day for all Potter fans across the world - I think the shock the feel from it one be easily forgotten as we head towards book 7 ..

[Fortescue]

I don't know if I even want to read the seventh book without Dumbledore. I mean - he was the core of the 'good' aspect of the book. Now all that is left is Harry who has to battle all the evil in the world, basically, on his own with no other weapon then an immense hate for the key 'evil' players, and his ability to love.

For me, I think the signal sent out by JKR by killing Dumbledore was the death of what is good and right. If she did it to show Harry's maturation and resolution to his task at hand, I think he already had that power within him, and Dumbledore's death was a waste!!

[yarvelling]

It most certainly won't have been a waste if the 'Snape is good...' theorists are correct, and the arguments that they put forward are certainly powerful; I can believe them, and hope they are right!
But, even though DD is physicaly gone, he will live on through his portrait, and he will always be the 'spiritual' leader of the Order. As Harry quoted at the new MOM, DD will never really leave Hogwarts whillst there are still those that believe in him......

[mimbulus mimbletonia]

Did you notice the bit about Harry being "Dumbledore's man through and through" was repeated 3 times? I think that foreshadows his importance in the next book.

[Tonks]

Well, ok, I was thoroughly depressed after I finished the book and sat staring into space for about ten minutes before someone came in and gave me a weird look - :D

I was definitely stunned when Dumbledore was killed, and although I thought it had to happen (as Blaise had convinced me ;) ) I really was hoping that it wouldn't! I'm still pretty darn shocked it actually happened..

Still, I think thats a load of crap that it wont have a big effect on Harry. Come on now, Dumbledore was the only mentor he had left really.. and now he is dead too.. to me that seems to leave Harry, Ron, and Hermione virtually on their own to figure stuff out.. aghhh!

I did really like the part that yarvelling mentioned though - at the end Harry quoted something Dumbledore himself had once said - that he will not be truly gone until there are none left at Hogwarts who are loyal to him. The way this was said - I'm just pretty curious to see if theres any underlying thing behind this..

On a bit of the same topic - I wonder if the portrait of Dumbledore will be able to continue to give Harry advice on his "mission" .. to the point of it being almost like he was still there to continue advising Harry what to do..
However, I suppose that does require Harry to return to Hogwarts to see it..

[Fortescue]

I thought it was odd that on the same day Dumbledore takes Harry out on his first mission to find the horcrux, Dumbledore is killed. It couldn't have been planned that way as Snape was not even aware the Death Eaters were coming to Hogwarts as Draco wouldn't tell him. He was sitting in his office when Flitwick told him the DEs were invading the castle, so obviously Dumbledore and Snape had not prearranged for Dumbledore's death at that exact time. Dumbledore was trying to give Harry as much knowledge about Voldemort as he could as quickly as possible. I wonder what else he planned to show Harry but never got the chance? :( I see more little vials of thought and more trips into the Pensieve for Harry. I wonder if Dumbledore will leave everything to Harry as Sirius did ? (but that's another discussion.)

[DieandDecay]

although I wasn't surprised about dumbledore being killed. if he stayed alive throughout all the books, it would make everything too easy for harry in the next book. however, I was still upset.
I don't think the death could've been pre-arranged with dumbledore n snape seeing as how snape didnt know what was going on right away. i agree that dumbledore wanted to show harry enough to be able to do everything on his own..although he certainly didn't plan on dying because he wouldn't have done that to harry. another reason i think its real is because when snape was standing over him, dumbledore was begging. that's not his personality, so it must've meant he really didnt want to die.
at first i thought maybe dumbledore would be able to come back, but after the funeral n whatnot, its just not logical. the portrait in the office did cross my mind though, hopefully dumbledore will still be able to help harry.

[The SketchWolf]

**WARNING: SPOILERS**

I believe the death was necessary only so that Harry will start to fight on his own. If you think about it, he's cut off from 'his greatest protector' and the wizard who always helped him, so now he'll be forced to become more independent.

I'm really, really sad that Dumbledore died, as well as the fact that it seems that JKR has not thought of a better way to make her books more mature and serious than killing people off. I mean, come on, there's got to be a better way, and I'm not just saying that because I didn't want Cedric, Sirius, or Dumbledore to die.

Kill off too many people and it'll start to be a joke. It already is. "Who's gonna die next? I place 50 on Ron!" ... that sort of thing, if that makes any sense. It loses its sense of shock, despair, dignity. We're becoming numb to the deaths of major characters.

The books can still mature from children's fantasy to young adult literature without losing that Potter-ish feel, and I believe both books 5 and 6 lost that vital emotion.

[Nimue]

**WARNING: SPOILERS**
Kill off too many people and it'll start to be a joke. It already is. "Who's gonna die next? I place 50 on Ron!" ... that sort of thing, if that makes any sense. It loses its sense of shock, despair, dignity. We're becoming numb to the deaths of major characters.
The books can still mature from children's fantasy to young adult literature without losing that Potter-ish feel, and I believe both books 5 and 6 lost that vital emotion.


I soooo agree with you. All the people I've met have been comparing HP to Star Wars and LOTR. I think killing off "the all-powerful mentor" was a bit cliche. Harry had proved his worth as a hero w/ out the need to kill off the only adult that ever listened to his persective and fears without looking down on him as a kid. I don't see what he had to die for.

Unless of course he isn't really dead. And then I say--HOOORAH!

[Fortescue]

I wonder though, Harry is now basically alone, Dumbledore is dead. Now that Dumbledore is gone, does that mean the Fidelius Charm is no longer in effect on Grimmauld Place since the Secret-Keeper is dead, and is the spell he placed over Harry and Petunia now done as well?

I don't believe he had to die either, but as long as he still lives in my fanfic - that's all I care about - and he will live ;)

[Madam Rosmerta]

I was in tears when Dumbledore was killed. I knew he was very likely to die in this book, but I couldn't believe who did it.

At least he will still be able to communicate via his portrait.

[DieandDecay]

yeah i dont think people were so much shocked that dumbledore died...it was more so who killed him that everyone was surprised about. and i cant blame them. i never saw that one coming.

[Snuffles]

.... Can I gloat and say told you so yet? :D:D:D

How evil of you! But I must agree. :D
It was such a sad part of the story :( but was a necessary part.
I did believe somebody would have to die that was close to Harry, and since Sirius died, Dumbledore, the spiritual supporter of Harry, would have to be next! :)
Hey, don't take me wrong! I'm not gloating that i'm glad Dumbledore's gone! :( It's really sad!!!

I also think we will see a bit of him in the next book, though. Through portraits and stuff.

IS there a portait of him? I always mentioned that Harry could find his parents' or Sirius' portrait, but my thesis have been rejected everytime I brought it up. I think it would be cool to have a portrait of Dumbledore... :)

[Alz]

Yah, there is ...
As Minerva and co go into Dumbledore's office - he has a portrait and is asleep in it at the time - this kind of clears up if he is coming back as well ...

[Tonks]

Then again, there are portraits of all the old Headmasters in the office.. bet the walls in there are probably a bit cluttered - lol.. However, those portraits seem to give their personal opinions on things as well as relay messages from place to place, so I think that we will definitely have Dumbledore communicate in that way, if no other..

[jburden]

I belive that DD's death was rightly placed.

I read some of you feel it is related to Star wars or whatnot...and i disagree.


Didn't any of you notice how, when DD went to the cave and returned, how useless it really was.

think about it.

R.A.B

R.A.B

R.A.B


That was the reason DD died. Someone other then DD and HArry found out about Voldy's secret....Dd did not even have to go there if he knew that the necklace was already taken.


DD died because of a reasonable sense that he did not know that someone else had taken the Horux, and was weakened by the potion.


the reason he was talking to malfoy to change his mind was so to the bad guys he seemed like he was pleading, but he was actually doing the whole thing for Harry's sake, so Harry could pass the information to the rest of the order and sort.


DD revealed Snape's true side, DD revealed how Malfoy got DE's into the castle, and that he was a bad DE as well, and the clues added up. If Harry did not know of any of it, he would possibly be killed by Snape.


Also the fact he was paralzed so he would be a messenger for DD's last words.





Many may thing that its a repeat of lotr's or starwars....but for me its different. ITs proving the point of SACRIFICE!!!

ITs what many people lack....or so some say, and I think she was trying to put a nudge on the point that with Sacrifice, can come results.


She did not kill random people of major reputation, but more of killed those who would most likely die because of certain conditions. R.A.B is either dead or still searching for the Horux's, its HArry's job to get to them before R.A.B does...or better yet, to meet R.A.B and work togeter to get the things distroyed.


Yes...it was a shock though i have always speculated he was to die. Actually......for me it was the fact that Snape turned head and killed DD, rather then breaking the vow and sacrificing himself.

This again, is sacrifice. He was not strong enough to kill himself for DD, maybe he did want to save DD...but thought of his own life, and killed DD so he would not die.



I feel I might repeat myself if I say more, so I will just allow this to end my view, and to disagree with a majority of you. Yes....not what you might want, but I have views.....and I will support them till I am litterly proven wrong.....


I belive also the fact taht the book's style of writing had changed....because the book is getting more serious. I did not expect it, but it was there.....and it fit with the story.

Let the ramblingn begin.

[Alz]

Dumbledore was as good as dead ... and by keeping Snape alive he gave Harry renewed verve and anger to track Snape down - and as we know, Snape has returned to Voldemort ...
Dont you see - Snape has to be in with Voldemort - how else can he even begin to help the Order or indeed Harry ... he was the only person capable of doing what he did - if he died that night, then the whole inside track on Voldemort also dies ...
It is simple - this is a war and you have to loose battles to win a war - there is always casualties and all of the Order were willing to loose their life if it helped in the bigger picture - the downfall of Voldemort ..
Having Harry with this new found hatred - could be likened to that of Voldemort and perhaps even more - Harry has so many reasons to hate Snape and he will not rest till he finds him ... that is the biggest clue ...
The death was indeed a sacrifice, on the same level as the sacrifice of Lily - it gives Harry the best chance of survival - and only one person can kill Voldemort ... Harry ...
Dumbledore alive knew he couldnt do the job - if anything his ailing health would have lead to him being compromised by Voldemort and put Harry into a situation where Voldemort would use Dumbledore against him ...
It is so simple in my mind :p

[Weasleyfanforever]

This well-known quote isn't from HBP, but OotP:


'We both know that there are other ways of destroying a man, Tom,' Dumbledore said calmly, continuing to walk towards Voldemort as though he had not a fear in the world, as though nothing had happened to interrupt his stroll up the hall. `Merely taking your life would not satisfy me, I admit...
`There is nothing worse than death, Dumbledore!' snarled Voldemort.
`You are quite wrong,' said Dumbledore, still closing in upon Voldemort and speaking as lightly as though they were discussing the matter over drinks. Harry felt scared to see him walking along, undefended, shieldless; he wanted to cry out a warning, but his headless guard kept shunting him backwards towards the wall, blocking his every attempt to get out from behind it. `Indeed, your failure to understand that there are things much worse than death has always been your greatest weakness.

Dumbledore fought Voldemort, unshielded and unprotected. True, he had his wand, but it is pointed out more than once how he walked and talked as if it were nothing out of the ordinary, and he was fighting someone who's powers are said to rival his own! If he had needed or wanted to, Dumbledore could have took out Draco, Snape, Greyback, and the other two DE's present. He didn't need to, because he knew what was going to happen... ;)

[madam sweetcheeks]

For everyone else in major denial about the death of DD. Go to dumbledoreisnotdead.com I found some comfort in it. Yea I know I am pathethic! hehe. But I have to admit, the person that created the site looked into this subject deeply! It is pretty interesting even to the most stubborn of skeptics. You gotta admit, it makes you think. Check it out.

[The Frozen North]

Personally I am not one of the "Snape is good, Dumbledor is alive" brigade, the interview with representatives of Mugglenet and Leaky Couldron, pointed towards JKR indirectly saying that many fans do not want to admit the obvious truth as they have perhaps invested too much belief in DD's infalability. I have, however, come across one theory that supports (or at least alows for the possibility) of Snape indeed being good and DD still being alive. Firstly we have to remember that the portrait in the Headmaster's office does not necessarily mean that DD is dead, just that he is a former headmaster of Hogwarts, the second point is the rather weak description of how DD "hurt" his hand, and thirdly there is another character who has already lost his hand, a character who has so far been cowardly in all that he has done but owes harry a debt, a life debt. I am of course talking about Wormtail, an accomplished, mature wizard, not lacking in magical skill, only in moral fibre and courage. Ever heard of Polyjuice Potion? It may be possible that Wormtail resenting the lack of recognition given to him by Voldermort and the lowley status aforded him by the other Death Eaters combined with a bad concience (after all, all his old freinds were either dead or fighting for the other side and he lived for many years with the Weasleys, a very upright and moral (if comical, sometimes silly and not always respected) family) had been persuaded to come over to work for the Order and indeed taken DD's place. Snape may well have known this and despite not necessarily wanting to kill anyone (the emotions JKR described could well be interpreted as anguish) he certainly possessed the hatred for Wormtail to kill him, the hatred needed for the Avada Kadavra curse to work. Remember in OOTP Bellatrix stated, during her duel with Harry, that for an unforgivable curse to work you must realy mean it. Therefor it may well have been a plan (that indeed went wrong) to allow DD to secretly keep working on something else, Snape has not broken the Unbreakable Vow as he has indeed protected Malfoy and has not refused to try to kill DD (he just didn't get the chance) and Pettigrew has repayed his life debt to Harry by sacrificing himself for the Order, not that this was necessarily intended but became necessary for Snape to protect Malfoy. This would also explain "Dumbledor" pleading with Snape and the dialogue when "Dumbledor" was drinking the potion in The Cave.

Personally I think DD is dead and Snape is truely evil but in an interesting and plausible therory. I guess we'll just have to wait for book 7 to find out.

On a lighter note, the name "Polyjuice Potion", do you all think that this could be JKR's little joke on us as Poly is a common (well, steriotypical) name for a parrot and parrots are known for copying things? Just a thought.

[Alz]

Wow - interesting theory there ...
I think there is a few holes in there ... the fact Snape was housing Wormtail and various mentions to Voldemort knowing that Wormtail was there ... I dont know there a few other parts that just dont support it - but in itself it is a great bit of wild spec there!

TFN - I would like to hear your thoughts on Snape being evil - we have 2 threads in here, One Snape is evil (http://www.maturepotter.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2867) & one Snape is good (http://www.maturepotter.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2868) perhaps if you get a bit of time :)

[Boing]

Wow - that is some real speculation there - nice job! I personally am of the opinion that Dumbledore is dead. I don't think it was a big hoax. And yes, admittedly, I am one of the people who did not shed a tear. I don't know why, but it wasn't that big a deal for me (okay, go ahead and throw stuff at me . . .:D). I have always found Dumbledore to be a bit pompous and self-righteous and just never really got into him as a particularly "lovable" character. I didn't dislike him by any means, but I was not very attached to him. Much as I was not attached to Sirius. Hmmm . . . there must be something wrong with me . . . :p

Anyway, I did find the way it happened to be a big surprise. And, yes, I am on the Dumbledore is dead, but Snape is good train. I just love Snape.

Man, there's something twisted in my brain, isn't there? ;)