**spoilers*** Voldemort & Love

[Alz]

I just want to check here that we all got the same vibe ...

The reason Voldemort has never felt love was because his Dad was under a potion at the time of conception and thus the love was false?
The side effect of the potion was for the child born from the relationship didn't have the potion and as such was born love less?

Just thinking an all ... :p

[kashlie]

I think that is quite good actually...beats the whole Dementor thing I had going...
Perhaps too, his mother knew he didn't really love her, and probably wouldn't love the child. Her love may not have been there for him either.
I doubt too that she ever knew how to love, giving that her father didn't show her any.

[Tinkerbell]

I think that in addition to this, the fact that he split his soul further than anyone has ever done which made him less human, meant that he was loveless, and that he could not understand the power of love in others, hence his misunderstanding of Harry's power.

[Alz]

I think what I meant as well was that JKR said he has never known love - I agree with the splitting of the souls etc - but I think it was from birth ...
I suppose I was just seeing if anyone else thought that given the manner he was concieved that the magical world he grew to try and harness was responsible for making him what he was ... it was magic that bought him into the world the way he was ..

[Fortescue]

Yep, it would seem since Tom was conceived because his mother had put a spell on his father, then decided after time to stop giving him the potion thinking that he would love her without the spell because she was carrying his child - that would make him a child conceived out of love and through a lie.

I can see part of his lack of love coming from this - but I do believe his mother loved his father so it doesn't completely explain why Voldemort doesn't feel love. I think it's more complicated then that and is a culmination of his entire childhood and feeling of dejection and loneliness.

[Boing]

Good thinking. I hadn't even thought of that. The story really left me wondering what happened to his mom, though. I mean, it could be that she died of depression or something, but the way Dumbledore described it, he said that she didn't "raise her wand" to stop her death. It made me think that perhaps someone was there to kill her . . .

[Alz]

As soon as I read the chapter where we were introduced to her family - I thought it would have been her brother that killed her ...

I just wonder - I am sure JKR said Voldemort had never known love - and given the artifical circumstance which he was concieved under - I just figured that there was a logical link ...


Now, that’s a cracking question to end with—very good. No, never. [Laughter.] If he had, he couldn’t possibly be what he is.


Notice he has never - that just seems to suggest that he was deficient of that part of him - that part what was artifical in his Dad ...
I realise all the things about the 7 parts of Voldemort who seal it - but I think this was from birth!

[Fortescue]

JKR has said he has never loved anyone, but she also said that no one is born evil. It was his choice to become evil - he knew he had powers before Dumbledore went to get him at the orphanage and he used those powers against any and all who upset him - he told Dumbledore he knew he was "special". The lack of love is significant in that he never had love at a young age, so he probably didn't know it existed. All he knew was the resentment and isolation from anyone who might have cared for him. The woman who ran the orphanage, Mrs. Cole, obviously was not the loving type and she ruled over the other staff with what seemed, an iron hand. One thing that I think is very important was what Mrs. Cole told the younger Dumbledore:


The Secret Riddle - HBP, pg 267
"He was a funny baby too. He hardly ever cried, you know. And then, when he got a little older, he was .....odd."


What would cause a small baby not to cry? Was he already becoming evil due to a lack of love - the lack of a mother?

[LoonyLuna]

I notice the focus was a lot on 'artifical' love as well as normal love. There were a lot of references to love potions etc. which made me wonder how Voldermort would react having taken some... Funny thought hey?

[Alz]

What would cause a small baby not to cry? Was he already becoming evil due to a lack of love - the lack of a mother?
No - he was born concieved under circumstance where the love was artifical on one partners behalf - I think because of that he was born without any love.
Call it a side effect of the potion - but I feel that anything that came from that relationship given that the father was being controlled somewhat - more to say his emotions - I think that is why Riddle has never known love and was born without the ability to feel it etc - in essence his soul was already damned from the start - that is why the Horcruxes wouldnt have worried him too much - not much of a soul to loose ;)

[Sirius Potter Fan]

OK, I have 2 points to make here. . . (I think)

First. since this is indeed a Mature discussion I will voice this openly. Let's face it, There are many that have relations with the opposite sex where neither are in love with the other, but, just for the "fun" of it. And of course there is also rape, where it is not only loveless, but violent. And often children are conceived under these circumstances, but obviously they don't turn into evil "soul less" monsters. You may then argue that, well, this was a "magical" situation as well, but do you believe that this was the first time someone conceived a child under the influence of a love potion? So, sorry Blaise, for perhaps only the second time, our opinions differ :eek:

I believe I am probably the oldest on here, and definately have the most children (if you count the foster children we have had, it woluld total 38) I've had a little more experience in what makes children grow in different directions. At the time JKR was formulating her plans and history of Voldemort, there was alot going on about parental "bonding" and specificaly you were nearly led to believe that if you didn't bond with your newborn in the first hour, they would never hafe a close relationship with you. Well first, that has been proven wrong, the "window" for the bonding to take place is as much as 4 months. So what if a childs parents aren't around when they are infants? Will they become unloving monsters? No, as long as a child does bond with someone, a care taker, nurse, foster parent, anyone, in the first 4 months of life they can and will have normal relationships with others.

For those unfortunate children who still are not given the oportunity to bond, they become "unnattached" They may have "friends, and have a civil relationship with parents and other peers, but they generaly will never form a close, trusting, LOVING, relationship. They may marry someone that they are compatible with, but it is often seen as more of a "business" arangement in their minds. They can love, but only at the surface, they will never wholely give their hearts.

So, my belief in what JKR has done with young Riddle, is just that. Riddle's mum died at his birth (still want to know just what happened to cause that)He aparently was actualy born at the orphanage. most likely, he wasn't held, his bottles were given him in a timely manner, propped up on a blanket, his nappies were also changed "on schedule" even if he had dirtied them minutes after the previous change. Babies learn to cry, because they get results from doig that, when a baby cries, and it's needs are met, it knows that it will be tended to when it cries again. When a baby cries, and it's needs are not met, it simply gives up on crying which actually consumes quite a bit of their little energy supply. And in many orphanages before the last 30 years, that is commonly what happened.

All that said, I think there is still more to the story here, because even with the above situation, these kids may not have great relationships, but they don't turn out to all be evil murders either. It was said she wouldn't lift a wand to save her own life. If it had been her father or brother, they would have been seen. But, muggles don't see dementors do they. . .

[Snuffles]

Why didn't Voldemort feel any love?
Because he had never known love; never experienced or received any love!
The only thing he felt against his so-called parents, was hatred for leaving him at the stupid orphanage, when he knew he was different and special!
Learning that his father, Tom, abandoned his mother, because she was a witch, Tom grew more hatred for his father for hating his "type of people," while hating his mother for being so defenseless and helpless as a witch! She died so early, without ever giving him a chance even to remember her; what a shame!

[Fortescue]

It was said she wouldn't lift a wand to save her own life. If it had been her father or brother, they would have been seen. But, muggles don't see dementors do they. . .

I agree with all you said SFP - I think Tom's lack of crying came from the fact that if JKR wasn't pulling our leg, that Tom was born with the ability to love and he was capable - but because he never got the nurturing he needed to learn what having someone care for him meant - that's what made him not know love.

As for why his mother wouldn't raise her wand to save herself - I get the feeling that everyone is under the assumption that she was murdered. That was never indicated. What I got from Dumbledore's story to Harry was she simply died after childbirth - whether it was from depression - regret - who knows - but Dumbledore said she refused to do magic after Tom Sr left her - thus the reason she had to sell the Slytherin necklace. She had to have money, as she couldn't conjure food and other necessities. She used magic to get the man she wanted and it backfired. She didn't raise her wand to save herself because any witch could have simply stopped the bleeding, or whatever caused her death, but she chose not to save herself.

[Alz]

Are you proposing that any child given to an orphanage are destine to follow Riddles path?
I don't think so ...
Many children have come from that background - and never grown up the same way ..
Thus I return back to my initial point - I feel it is more the manner he was conceived under that lead to him being deficient ..
The rest you all talk about here is a choice or choices - it is noted that Riddle's general demeanour wasn't right ... I still think that was at conception and not as a result of his young life ...

And Merope - she refused to do magic because of what she had bought about herself - notice that her Dad called her a squib - she didnt use magic, then when she was free of her home she decided to use it - then made another mistake and thus stopped using it ...
It is pure speculation that she wouldnt have raised a wand to help her son - I think she just wanted to die - she didnt have any joy in her life - when she finally got some she realised it was artifical and just wanted to bring it all to an end - rather than die with the child inside her - she gave birth and then died ...

[Fortescue]

What I meant is human beings learn to be what they become. If you raise a child up to never hear speech, they won't be able to talk as they will have never had that example and would not know that speech is an option. The same thing goes for love - if a child never knows love, and has never felt loved, they wouldn't know how to give it or take it. A small baby needs love and affection - that's how they learn to do the same.

If Tom never felt loved in the environment he was raised, then he wouldn't know there was such a thing as love. The woman at the orphanage thought he was strange from the time he was a baby. That might tend to make the staff even less likely to cuddle and hold him, which is something all babies need, and usually get from their parents, or in Tom's case, his caregivers.

[Alz]

Ummm - see once again I can't agree ...
I think there is something more elemental.
Tom was always a loaner - he didn't feel the need to have people sanctify him or his presence - he understood from a very early age what he, alone was capable of.
The observations Dumbledore made in the pensive were that of one woman - she remarked Riddle was very unusual.
In order to so easily look at the things like the Horcrux - to kill so wilfully - his whole demeanour just screams someone who was deficient of love - and not something he grew up under - was just never there ...
I feel that was the whole reason we heard about Merope and the love potion - it wasn't just so she could go get the man she always wanted - it was to explain how Riddle was always different, always special and always destine to be the evil, callous being he developed into ... he wasn't lacking moral guidance or base affection, he was just lacking the ability to love full stop!

[Sirius Potter Fan]

Well Blaise, we may well have to agree to dissagree on this one for now. . .In the same way you mention that not every child raised in an orphanage turns into an evil murderer, I must argue that certainly Riddle wasn't the only child ever conceived under a love potion was he? Either way. . . yes, there is still something else. . . has to be. Most children raised in orphanages receive a little affection, a caregive that takes a liking to them, a teacher that favors them. Some are actually lucky enought to have loving and caring caregivers. We also have to remember the general time this would have been in. near the turn of the century when Riddle was born. People didn't realize the importance of loveing a newborn, top that off with a child that has an unusual demeanor about him. . . did a bottle float accross the room when he was really hungry? that would keep people away from him. I just don't see that the love potion did it.

[Alz]

My best defence has always been the artificial love that surrounded this ... because it wasn't true, mutual love and Voldemort has never felt love ...
I understand your point but feel there is a reason for everything and I think this is the reason Voldemort has never felt love ... he just never had it in him ...
This isn't about was he born evil, this was about was he born with an inability to love or feel love ... and what could have lead to it ...