View Full Version : Blaise Wild Spec#1 - the answer!
OK - check this out ...
OK - what if whoever stole the Horcrux from the cave was in contact with the Potters .... ?
What if they told Lily & James about having taken it - what they thought it was ect?
James gets killed as soon as Voldemort enters - he was always going to be in the way ...
So next - Voldemort goes after Lily ...
Lily knows that Voldemort is going to kill Harry - being very good at charms, she seeks her chance ...
She refuses to step aside, as we are told and Voldemort grows impatient ..
As he goes to kill her - she activates a charm that will make Harry one of Voldemort's Horcrux - based on her being the one to die ...
Voldemort is unaware - or just figures it is OK to sacrfice one of his Horcruxes if it means he can kill Harry ...
So - he steps forward to kill Harry - then blam ... it backfires ...
Why does it backfire - because he is attacking another part of his soul - and the AK spell pretty much rips the soul out of the person ...
It could be then that the Horcrux does it's job - it keeps Voldemort alive - leaves Harry as nasty scar but to all intense and purpose alive!
The reason Harry lives is because Voldemort dies - but the Horcrux inside Harry ressurects Voldemort as the spirt we see floating around ...
What do you think? :D
I think you're crazy - :p Not that that's anything new..
Anyway, I really do like this theory. Still, I find it kind of hard to understand that one, Lily would know how to transfer Voldemort's Horcrux to her own son, and that she'd even want to do so..
And also am wondering why it is that the Horcrux inside Voldemort was also rebounded.. I suppose I think that if Voldemort attacked the Horcrux inside of Harry, it would kill that one, but keep the one inside his body intact and as such he wouldn't become powerless.. he's just have one less Horcrux ;)
..She did it because she thinks it might protect her son - or might even know it - cleverest witch of her age at school ...
.. and not opposed to your second point - sure it kills the one in Harry and then leaves the last piece in Voldemort to escape ... actually makes sense with the whole 'I was ripped from my body ...' moment in GoF - go you :D
Weasleyfanforever
19-07-2005, 13:26
I like the theory, but I don't think so, pretty much because I just read the first part of the interview that JKR did with TLC, and she says:
MA: Did she know anything about the possible effect of standing in front of Harry?
JKR: No - because as I've tried to make clear in the series, it never happened before. No one ever survived before. And no one, therefore, knew that could happen.
I know it only pertains to her knowing about the the protection, but that would be the backfiring of the curse, and it's a categoric "No"...
Ouch, shutdown from Wheezy there - ;)
I know Lily was one of the cleverest witches who went to Hogwarts at that time, but we're talking about Horcruxes here.. something even Voldemort himself had to find out from another person because he couldn't find the answer anywhere.. I don't have a problem with her knowing about them or anything, just that she'd somehow know or think of a spell that would move it to Harry - I doubt a simple Switching Spell would work - ;)
Erm, ok on the last point then I suppose.. but why did it become considerably weaker? Wouldn't that soul remain unhurt and just the other one be destroyed? Or could the other one have been destroyed and at the same time, we have the whole love thing happening and that is what greatly made him powerless.. like a combination of the two theories I suppose.?
... OK - but she took a chance!
Afterall - she knows she would probably die - and Harry was almost certainly going to - so she gave it an educated guess - not so much on that the spell would backfire - but something would happen that might stop her son dying?
Hey - work with me on this - I think we could be onto something :D
Snuffles
19-07-2005, 19:01
As he goes to kill her - she activates a charm that will make Harry one of Voldemort's Horcrux - based on her being the one to die ...
Voldemort is unaware - or just figures it is OK to sacrfice one of his Horcruxes if it means he can kill Harry ...
So - he steps forward to kill Harry - then blam ... it backfires ...
Whoa whoa. This is way wacky :D
But this would mean.... um.. Harry would have to kill and destroy himself in order for someone else to finish Voldemort off? the someone else possibly being... Neville? lol.
But I really like this idea, only I don't think it's too realistic.
It would really explain why Avada Kedavra reflected off.
But would a mere "charm" be able to do this?
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But hey, I think whoever RAB is somebody that would help Harry. Why else would someone want to steal the Horcrux for, if not to destroy it and to destory the Dark Lord himself?
mimbulus mimbletonia
19-07-2005, 19:54
Speaking as a mother, I think I'd rather see my child die than have a piece of that monster's soul inside him. I don't think she would do it, even if the idea had crossed her mind. My other question would be - is it possible for a third party to create a Horcrux anyway? I would have thought only the owner of the soul could transfer a piece of it.
I didnt expect an easy ride :p
Lily knew no matter what Voldemort was going to attack Harry - that is a fact ...
Now - given that fact - and also the fact that she had no concept of whatever she did would have any impact on it - you arent suggesting that she did nothing - because she wouldnt know she couldnt make an impact?
My point here - Lily was going to try and do all she could to try and save Harry - she would have no idea if it would work or not ... but she still tried ...
An interesting question to ask JKR I suppose would be - can a third party trigger a Horcrux in a person who is part way engaged in doing it?
MysticalHeavens
25-07-2005, 05:32
I have a theory along a similar line. This might be long, but bear with me. We didn't find out how making a Horcrux completely works. page 497 usa edition......slughorn to Tom Riddle "Well, you split your soul, you see and hide part of it in an object outside the body" then Tom Riddle asks page 498 "But how do you do it?"slughorn ansers "By an act of evil-the surpeme act of evil. By committing murder. Killing rips the soul apart. The wizard intent upon creating a Horcrux would use the damage to his advantage: He would encase the torn portion--" Encase? But how--" There is a spell, do not ask me, I don't know!"
And DD states on page 506 that Voldy "...seems to have reserved the process of making Horcruxes for particularly significant deaths." So you can designate whom it is you are to kill and use that particular split piece of soul to make your Horcrux.
So, my theory is that you would have to perform a spell and designate whom you wish to "honor" your horcrux with before you kill them. Otherwise, if you killed 15 people to get to that certain one, how would you know which split you were getting? And if that is the case, then Voldy would have done it before going to GH. I think a few almost completely simultaneous things happened after Killing James or even perhaps someone else kills James. Lilly sacrifices herself and puts into affect a magic no one could have preditced, almost instantly after killing Lilly Voldy turns to kill harry. At the same time the AK curse hits harry, that piece of voldys soul is forced out of his body, spell backfires, at the same instant the spell backfires, that piece of soul is forced into harry, the backfired spell kills voldys body and the bit of soul that is left in him is ripped from his body. I think this all happens so fast, adn so close together, that voldy does not realize he has not only inadverdently made Harry a Horcrux but that initself has given Harry a few of Voldys powers. And also, I think, why Harry had been kinda like a Voldy antenna, attuned so much to his presence and his feelings and thoughts and visions until Voldy started employing the occlumency against harry. I do not think that Harry would have to kill himself to get that small piece of voldy out of him. Remember, DD did not destroy the ring. He had to get around the curses, which is how he had hurt his hand. The only thing that happend to the ring, was it cracked(page 215). Not sure if I am even saying this right or making any sense. Sorry this was so long, but trying to put my thoughts into comprehensive sentences is alot harder than I thought LOL. maybe if someone understood what i said they could say it better or yall can just tell me i am completely off the deap end here.
You know you gave me some more thoughts on this ...
Harry's return on the rebound was some pretty special powers from Voldemort ... and also a connection to the main man ...
What if, either way you want to play it - Harry actually took the final piece of Voldemort!
Think about it - the last horcrux would probably be the most powerful - it is the one the person is still in possession of ... this is all but the best piece of them - the part they cant afford to loose or this could trigger death ...
What if Voldemort was actually resurrected from one of his 6 Horcruxes - thus his soul survived the attack - but the main part, the final horcrux was forced into Harry - making him just as powerful as the man that tried to kill him :eek:
Still think 'Either must die at the hands of the other for neither can live while the other survives'
Either of the remaining Horcrux must die at the hands of the other for neither (both Harry, with Horcrux, and Voldemort with a Horcrux) because neither can live while the other survives ... elementary really that one of those horcrux must die - be it Voldemort and his for a Harry victory - or Harry and his Horcrux for Voldemort victory ...
Also explains in essence divided ... the snake which becomes 2 ... well works in my head ;)
Fortescue
27-07-2005, 09:01
OK - check this out ...
OK - what if whoever stole the Horcrux from the cave was in contact with the Potters .... ?
What if one of the people who stole the Horcrux was Regulus Black? We can assume from what happened when Dumbledore drank the potion from the basin that he would have eventually died from it, as he himself assumed before he drank it. We know that Regulus is probably one of the people who took the Horcrux from the cave. Sirius told Harry he didn't think that Regulus was important enough to be killed by Voldemort himself, but obviously, even Sirius didn't know the details of his brothers death. What if no one killed Regulus, but he simply died from drinking the potion, thus the line in the letter, "I know I will be dead long before you read this"?
Regulus was James's best friends baby brother. If he was trying to escape Voldemort it's obvious he would go to people he thought might be able to help, or at least, contact them to give them information that might help them thwart Voldemort's plans.
She refuses to step aside, as we are told and Voldemort grows impatient ..
As he goes to kill her - she activates a charm that will make Harry one of Voldemort's Horcrux - based on her being the one to die ...
Voldemort is unaware - or just figures it is OK to sacrfice one of his Horcruxes if it means he can kill Harry ...
So - he steps forward to kill Harry - then blam ... it backfires ...
Why does it backfire - because he is attacking another part of his soul - and the AK spell pretty much rips the soul out of the person ...
I guess I don't know how this might work as it would seem if you split your soul it would be you and you alone who would have to make the Horcrux. I can only think that if anyone could make a Horcrux of someone else's soul, then you could kill someone, yet make a Horcrux of their soul, then they wouldn't really be dead??? Sounds a bit complicated if you ask me. :p
mwollert
31-08-2005, 13:48
Ok, heres a thought. If Harrys mother was able to channel the Horcrux into Harry, what happens if all the Horcruxes are destroyed and Voldy gets killed? If Harry was the last Horcrux wouldn't that mean they were both living in the same body? The prophecy seems to refute the idea. 'Either must die at the hands of the other for neither can live while the other survives'
Remeber the 'In essence Divided' comment?
One snake that became two - but in essence divided ...
And think about the above again - neither can live while the other survives ...
Voldemort's take - Harry has to die in order for him not to die ... Harry is the only risk to his mortality ... by killing Harry he kills part of himself.
Harry's take - If Harry is the last Horcrux - then he must die or Voldemort lives - because Voldemort cant die while a Horcrux still exists ...
Umm so hard to put this into words - OK ...
'Either must die at the hands of the other' - that is true because of the following
'for neither can live while the other survives' - Harry and Voldemort cannot both live - Voldemort needs to kill Harry, so he think he wont die .. Harry must die - because while he is alive - so is one of Voldemort's Horcruxes - so either must die at the hands of the other - because while both survive - both being depending on ending scenario - neither can live.
Harry lives - he has to remove and destroy his own horcrux - or die himself - because while he lives with the horcrux inside of him - Voldemort will always live.
Voldemort has to kill Harry - because Harry represents the only person that can kill him - be he will also know he will also kill a part of himself in doing so.
Arggghhh - it makes perfect sense in my mind but I can never seem to write it down :( :o
Can you see the beauty to Voldemort - it is checkmate - he can not die - because the person that can kill him will re-birth him ..
I always think about JKR's constant remarking on how much Harry looks like Riddle - how Harry has a lot of powers from Voldemort 'from the night of the attack' ...
Two snakes from one - every much in essence divided!
Blaise... I know this is an older thread, but I absolutely love your post here.
This is exactly what I thought the moment I figured out that Harry is a Horcrux.
I always make the small addition of saying that it is really only Harry's SCAR that is the Horcrux.
But the Prophecy makes perfect sense when you understand that Harry cannot truly live as long as Voldemort seeks to kill him, and Voldemort cannot truly or completely die as long as Harry lives because a part of Voldemort lives inside him.
Good post... albeit an old one !!!
DumbledoreLives
14-11-2005, 23:31
I don't know why, but I simply cannot accept that Harry is a horcrux. I just can't. I guess it's for the same reason I think Santa Claus is a real person and that he IS coming to town. :D I want to believe in stuff like that...I don't think Voldy in all his 'greater than thou' arrogance would entrust a part of his valuable soul into a person, especially a 'half blood ' infant like Harry. I also don't think he mistakenly turned Harry into a horcrux when he went to GH intending to kill him.
I believe Voldy's flaw is that he's short sighted, believes he is infallible and underestimates the power of human emotion. If he thought in the long term, he would have known that he were fulfilling the prophesy by killing Harry.
With the type of person Voldy is, it seems against character for him to sacrifice any part of himself to see Harry dead.
On whether Lily performed the horcrux charm, I don't think she would have known about something as evil and forbidden as horcruces. I think Harry survived for the reason DD told Harry in PS/SS - because his mother truly loved him.
:)
An underlying question is, who ultimately taught Voldy the horcrux spell and what role will this person play in HP7??!!
There are many ways we can speculate how Harry became the horcrux - but all of which don't diminish from the fact it makes perfect sense - even in reading the prophecy.
I mean - think about how Harry is so powerful - think about how Harry is so connected to Voldemort - I think the reason Voldemort felt he was more powerful than ever after taking Harry's blood is that he himself might have just wondered how this little baby bought about him downfall.
I think he may even be too arrogant to think that Harry is a horcrux - as you said the thought of storing himself in the object of something that could destroy him wouldn't have made the most perfect target ...
But - then play double jeopardy here as well ...
Make Harry a horcrux - then kill him - sure he looses a piece of his soul - but he also makes sure he cant die no matter what - because if Harry lived - so would he - if Harry died - he lost a piece of his soul but also got rid of the one that could defeat him.
I could just spin and spin the permutations of how this could work - but it just really does work!
I actually just re-read HBP and came online looking for any references to Horcruxes to see if anyone thought like me...Harry could be a Horcrux. The more I think about it and the more I read about, I could see it being true or false.
I have one question that may help...Didn't the AK backfire and kill Voldemorts body? If so, wouldn't that have destroyed that part of his soul incased in his body? This would tie in with Harry being or having a Horcrux residing somewhere inside him because it took Harry's blood to give him a new body. That being said, I can't recall what else Voldemort had to use to have a body again. Anyway, when Voldemort drunk some of Harry's blood, could that have restored a Horcrux back to Voldemort.
All these things just make my mind race because if his body was destroyed could that part of his soul escaped into Harry? My thoughts are not in sequence but I am interested in hearing what everyone thinks about this.
I am sure I don't have all of my facts straight here but, I hope you get the idea.
DumbledoreLives
15-11-2005, 15:59
**SOUND OF REPEATEDLY HITTING HEAD AGAINST DESK***
You are alll probably right. (*sniff*sniff*tear*)
Harry is probably a horcrux, or at least his scar is.:(
I just don't want to believe it.
(*sniff*):(
If it is true, how will the horcrux be removed from Harry, contribute to the demise of Voldy, but leave Harry unscathed?
I ABSOLUTELY REFUSE TO BELIEVE THAT VOLDY WILL KILL HARRY, OR HARRY WILL SACRIFICE HIMSELF, OR FAIL, OR BE CONVERTED TO THE DARK SIDE. NO NO NO , UH-UH. NO WAYS. (JKR herself said she wouldn't kill Harry because she'd be hunted all over the world. There'd be huge book bonfires, anarchy, chaos.. children named Harry will have to go into hiding.):mad:
(deep breath, sigh)
So I guess you've convinced me about the Harry=horcrux theory. But I'll keep believing that Harry will live to have a shot of Fire Whiskey after all is said and done.:D
But the Prophesy says only either Harry Or Voldemort would die, right? So if Harry is a Horcrux, that wouldn't make sense, because if he was destroyed , Vold would also die
Wouldn't it be possible that if Harry was a Horcux that there would be some magical way to seperate it from his body?
There is something I can't get around though...When Voldemort tried to enter Harry's body he couldn't stand it. It was painful for him. Not just in OotP, but in SS as well when Quirrel/Voldemort touched Harry. So, because of that, I am not sure that any piece of Voldemort could reside in Harry.
Any thoughts?
But the Prophesy says only either Harry Or Voldemort would die, right? So if Harry is a Horcrux, that wouldn't make sense, because if he was destroyed , Vold would also die
The prophecy says one must die so the other can live ... and that makes total sense in respect of this ... because one really must die so the other can live ... Harry must die so Voldemort can live ... Voldemort must die so Harry can really live ... Harry must rid the piece of Voldemort in him because while it is in him - Voldemort will always be alive ...
Argghh - it is so hard to explain this in words ... anyone else who might see what I mean want to take a stab?
As far as the last point - the Horcruxes arent emotionally attached to Voldemort once they leave his body - like when the diary was destroyed Voldemort didnt feel it.
I think that the soul fragment can live fine in Harry - Voldemort cannot because he is still the master piece of soul - or could be you cant have 2 pieces sealed in one Horcrux :p
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