The Implications of Felix Felicis **SPOILER WARNING**

[George]

Okay.
One major thing that I deduced from HBP was the way in which Felix Felicis was used. It tells us several important things about the way in which the world in Harry Potter is governed.
Felix Felicis grants LUCK to the person who drinks it. Now, this is MY definition of luck, so don't look this up in a dictionary. TO ME, luck is the occurance by which an event that is, in its nature, not in anyone's advantage, turns out to benefit someone through pure coincidence. In its turn, coincidence is the act by which an event turns out to benefit the interest of one person, totally excluding all around the "lucky one". Felix Felicis grants luck through apparent coincidence. We see that, whatever Harry does under the influence of Felix Felicis is perfect. We also see that Ron, Hermione and Ginny didn't die because curses kept "missing them". Okay. So we've seen it all: it grants luck, because events turn out to favour you when you have drunk Felix Felicis.
However, I am a man of science. I have to ask these questions. Why do events favour you? What makes them beneficial to you, and why are they changed? Had Harry not taken Felix Felicis, he would not have had Slughorn's memory in his hands? So, what made his luck?
This is my deduction: Harry Potter people have certain set algorhythms in which they move... as a result, Felix Felicis alters these patterns, and enables various beneficial openings to be created for the drinker. As a result, a hex that was aimed for Harry, under Felix Felicis and the laws it puts into action, would miss him, due to the fact that the world has been altered. This, if correct, confirms to us the fact that FATE plays a vital role in the books. Is that why Harry was born? Was it, indeed fated that Harry Potter and Tom Riddle have to fight to the death?
This raises another few questions, that I would like the more scientific members of the community to attempt to answer, along with myself...
First of all, do the algorhythms that govern the movements of Harry Potter characters sound plausible to others? My explanation is this: if not for the algorhythms, what could actually give the drinker SO MUCH LUCK, in so many situations? There has to be some defining form of movement and occurance, that is altered by Felix Felicis! Else its effects would not be possible. As a result, what Felix Felicis does is bend fate in one's favour... hence confirming, in its basis, the existence of fate in Harry Potter. Do you agree?
WHAT happens if two Felix Felicis drinkers go head to head in a duel to the death... curses would miss both, but, if forced to do combat, could PRIORI INCANTATIEM occur again?
What would happen if the drinker of Felix Felicis was, for example, thrown into a lake of fire... would he or she move through without receiving any damage, or would they die the same way they would had they NOT drank Felix Felicis? If damage CANNOT be sustained, the could it not be that one can go through the VEIL as well, and live to tell the tale?
What other implications are there that must be considered, and does one think there is a potential use of Felix Felicis in the next book? If so, what could it be, and if not, why?

[Fortescue]

I'm not sure I'm the 'scientific' reply you want, but I see what you're saying. My own personal take on Harry's experience with the potion was it relaxed him - gave him a sense of confidence. Sort of like a rum and coke after a long day ;)

Seriously, if he had jumped in a lake of fire, what might have happened if it was supposed to be his luckiest day ever? Maybe the fire would go out, or Buckbeak would swoop down and save him at the last moment, but I doubt it would save him from dying if he were put into the fire simply because the potion makes him lucky not immortal. If he were to drink it and go through the veil, he'd be a lucky dead man. The laws of the veil are simple - once you go through the veil there's no coming back - it's the doorway to death, and lucky or not, there is no return.

As for the potion showing up again - I'm pretty sure it will. I can see Hermione, although she loathed the use of it to have an advantage in any situation, after their use of it against the Death Eaters, I'd assume she would see the benefit and begin brewing a batch immediately considering what the three of them are going to be facing. It takes six months to brew so I'd assume she's already started. :rolleyes:

[Snuffles]

Felix Felicis grants luck through apparent coincidence. We see that, whatever Harry does under the influence of Felix Felicis is perfect. We also see that Ron, Hermione and Ginny didn't die because curses kept "missing them". Okay. So we've seen it all: it grants luck, because events turn out to favour you when you have drunk Felix Felicis.
However, I am a man of science. I have to ask these questions. Why do events favour you? What makes them beneficial to you, and why are they changed? Had Harry not taken Felix Felicis, he would not have had Slughorn's memory in his hands? So, what made his luck?
This is my deduction: Harry Potter people have certain set algorhythms in which they move... as a result, Felix Felicis alters these patterns, and enables various beneficial openings to be created for the drinker. As a result, a hex that was aimed for Harry, under Felix Felicis and the laws it puts into action, would miss him, due to the fact that the world has been altered. This, if correct, confirms to us the fact that FATE plays a vital role in the books. Is that why Harry was born? Was it, indeed fated that Harry Potter and Tom Riddle have to fight to the death?

Well, I've just looked up Felix Felicis in Latin dictionary. Both words, even though they are used as a name in HBP book, actually stands for "luck" or "good fortune." Felix Felicis.

I'm a very scientific person, but science is out of the rule when you are reading the HBP. How do you define the sucking of a soul by the Dementors, or the dragons, or even the giants or the magic itself? What i think that can be called "luck" that is granted by Felix Felicis is a happy, succesfsul feeling. More of a phsychology thing, really. Remember that when Ron thought he had just drank the Felix Felicis, was in such a good mood and so confident that he would do well because of the "luck" that he actually saved all the goals at the Quiddictch game? It might change the destiny of the person by not ending it there, for example, when the curses missed the little DA group when they were battling the DE, but wouldn't that be more because they are actually feeling lucky?

The thing about the fate. I think you are getting to the Prophecy part. In the prophesy, it was apparently "destinied" for Voldemort and Harry to face and try to kill each other. But as Dumbledore mentioned before he died, nobody HAS to follow the prophecy. Voldemort CHOSE to follow it, thus giving himself the worst enemy ever--Harry Potter.

I honestly don't think Felix Felicis would have any power to stop a person's death. It's giving them LUCK, not IMMORTALITY. When two enemies each take Felix Felicis before they fight each other, it might give them clearer minds to think of effective spells, more agile body to avoid the spells, but the potion itself wouldn't stop either of them from being killed.

This was a very well developed thought! =) good job!

[kashlie]

I remember that Slughorn said for Felix to be used on a very ordinary day, and to watch the day become extraordinary.
I agree with Snuffles in that it gives the drinker positive feelings. I also believe it gives the drinker false courage - or at least numbs them to the possibilities that something could go wrong.

'It's a great feeling when you take it,' said Ron, reminiscently. 'Like you can't do anything wrong.'
'What are you talking about?' said Hermione, laughing. 'You've never taken any!'
'Yeah, but I thought I had, didn't I?' said Ron, as though explaining the obvious. 'Same difference really ...'

When Harry took it, he suddenly got the feeling that going to Hagrid's was the best thing to do. Perhaps this was because he was feeling guilty if he didn't go, and the potion brought that to the surface to be fixed. I think if Harry had not taken the potion, but still decided to go to Hagrid's, things would have happened the same, but he would have been less confident and more reluctant to do those things. He wouldn't have got the memory without the potion, so yeah, I guess that it was lucky he took it, but anything after that, I think was Harry.

[Sirius Potter Fan]

I actually saw the potion as some sort of "divination" extention. Harry kept getting "feelings" that he should do things, that he would have otherwise not had or considered. It almost seemed to be specificaly "directing" him into certain circumstances. to me it didn't seem like confidence, but direction.

[Alz]

I think I can subscribe to the theory you make your own luck in life - with a positive mental attitude - you will be optomistic in approach - nothing is a challenge and if something does crop up - you are in that much of a good frame of mind it doesnt vex you ...
This is almost the same as luck - luck is a twist of fate that happens in your favour - but I also subscribe to the pleasure/pain theory - while you are happy someone is unhappy - for every action there is an equal and opposit reaction ...
I think luck is just a run of situations in your favour - you could suppose that the opposit of the luck was what the DE's were experiencing by not being able to strike Hermione, Ron etc ...

[Fortescue]

Also, the potion made Harry a bit reckless. He was under his Invisibility Cloak as he was outside when he wasn't supposed to be when he thought that revealing himself to Slughorn was the right thing to do. We saw before, when Harry bumped into Karkaroff, he just stayed still until he could get away - but this time he revealed himself even after Dumbledore had told him to use the Invisibility Cloak at all times.

Then we saw him use Slughorn's greed as a way to gain his confidence when Harry invited Slughorn to Aragog's burial, knowing that Slughorn only wanted Aragog's venom. Then he misled Hagrid by telling him Slughorn was coming down for the burial when in reality he was just coming down to get Hagrid drunk so he wouldn't notice that Slughorn was stealing the venom.

Harry did get the information from Slughorn - the memory that Dumbledore wanted, but he did it by deceiving Hargid and manipulating Slughorn - not like Harry at all. :rolleyes:

[gumshoe]

Oh, I had this nice post all written and TFH ate it. Let's try again.

George's point is a good one: That the Felix has a physical affect as well as a psychological one.

In the hypothetical scenario, if one of the two Wizards dies, then it must be in his best interest; perhaps reuniting with his dear departed mother on the other side of the Veil is more "lucky" than defeating his enemy. Or the Wizard who gets tossed into the lake lands on a rock. Or Fortescue's hippogriff arrives in the nick of time...
My point is, though, who is to say what is really "lucky" after all? And that is one way in which I think the Felix issue dips a toe into the murky waters of the TIME issue.
The other way it does, is that it affects the physical world.

If we use the Slughorn scene as an example:
What happens with Harry's friends has nothing to do with psychology and everything to do with proximity; furthermore, although Harry is traipsing down to Hagrid's, Slughorn happens to be right there on his path.
Harry being disingenuous with Slughorn and Hagrid -- for a time -- can be attributed to the psychological effect of the Felix: he's following its direction and is single-minded in his goal.

However, the Felix wears off DURING the scene, not after.
Slughorn tells the class the bottle holds enough for 12 hours; Harry believes it to be 24. He takes a "carefully measured gulp," thinking he'll be covered for 2-3 hours, when in actuality it's only enough for 60-90 minutes. He leaves the castle at dusk, and he returns after midnight. Therefore, he couldn't have been covered by Felix any longer than the point in which he refills the bottles under the table.

This, then, is an example of how we think the Felix is operating psychologically on Harry (making him chilly and manipulative) when we're really seeing a more "Slytherin" side of him, and how we think it's operating physically on Slughorn (stirring a yet-unknown desire to give up the memory) when it's actually a turning-point in Slughorn's character.

I do think JK will use the Felix again.

Pardon me if I've repeated myself. I did post on the Felix some time ago on this forum and couldn't find it tonight.

gumshoe

[Norbert]

It is a magical world and so the idea of a potion giving a person luck isn't at all out of the realm of possibility for me when considering the potion drinkers actions! I get a sense that it gives the drinker confidence and that in itself would explain why certain moves, actions, and words of the drinker would create advantageous situations for them! In that light I would surmise that Ron's assesment is perfectly correct - that thinking that you have consumed Felix Felicis has exactly the same effect as actually drinking it... in regards to the affect on the drinker only.

The part of the potions power that I wonder about is how could it/does it affect those around the drinker who have not consumed it! Was it Felix Felicis that put Slughorn in the garden? I don't think so - given the time frame Slughorn was on his way or already at the garden before Harry drank the potion. A large circumstance contributing to the "lucky" portion of Harry's memory retreiving mission is the death of Arogog! This happened days before Harry took the potion! Did the potion have a hand in these happenings - during the memory retrieving mission - Slughorns presence and Arogog's funeral as a result of his death seem to be effects of the potion?! Also - Ginny's ongoing tiffs with Dean prior to the famous relationship ending bump Harry gives her at the portrait door!

In Ron's case [while we beleive he has consumed the Potion] things well out of proximity of the subject (Ron) happen in his favour. Members of the Slytherin Quidditch team are sick and therfore do not play. At the time we the readers get the 'feeling' that these things have come to pass because of the potion!

I feel that it is the potions power to affect the lives of others whom have not consumed the potion (example - Dean, Ginny, Arogog etc..) that makes it taboo on a level equivallent to that of a time turner. What does Slughorn say about it - "too much of a good thing"? I wonder why Slughorn has only used it twice in his life? I mean how often is too often to consume Felix Felicis? What are the concequences of too much use - consistently bad luck between ues?

I think that Slughorn is a gem of a character! He is one of the few (if not the only) Slytherin that is good natured. He has his faults and he does seek power (although it is from the back seat) but, he has morale which gives him deep conviction against Voldemort and the Death Eaters. This same morale keeps him from over-using Felix Felicis! When someone so easily tempted like Slughorn has reserved to using this potion only twice in like 25-30 years it sends a message to me that one really should not be taking it even once a year let alone once a month etc...

[Alz]

Both the above posts touch upon a side of Felix that many people in like think - that you make your own luck in life.
This might suggest even more that Felix is just a placebo - designed to make a person feel they will be lucky - and in fact this is realised with the Ron episode.
In fact it is plausible to suggest that in fact all Felix does is increase a persons confidence and maybe makes them more aware - in fact maybe more receptive to things going on around them.

This would in fact cover all what was said above - the powers of Felix wouldn't be enough to manipulate and change the paths of other around them - if so you could be sure that Voldemort knows about it and would utilise it whenever he felt he needed to stack the odd's in his favour.
In fact logically assuming that if Felix really can change time and matter to suit your needs - the whole of the magical world would be employing it.

So is Felix a dud?
Well lets not get too far ahead of ourselves - JKR writes things for a reason and Yah - I think she does give it some credence and has properties - but are these magical or just what a person in fact contains within themselves and just needs that extra push?

[gumshoe]

So if it is...Then Harry was never "on" it, and Slughorn not being influenced by it still remains true.
Of course, either way, whether it had worn off or it simply worked as a placebo, it's really critical to the development of both characters in that scene. We see Harry cold and calculating; we see Slughorn willingly giving the memory to Harry, now that he realizes Harry -- not simply Dumbledore -- needs it.

It still does seem to me that there's some effect on the physical world...But I think I agree that it's primarily psychological, Alz.

Something to think about...Thanks.
gumshoe

[Alz]

I think Harry does have darker sides - we saw pretty much throughout OoTP he has an angst and temper that he couldn't easily control.
I still feel sharing what he does from Voldemort also makes him that bit more worrying when he displays his 'darker' side - almost like whatever Voldemort gave him the fateful night accelerates or enhances Harry's negative emotions.

I would like to believe that Felix really was changing things around Harry - but you have to assume since only he took it that wouldn't be possible. As such - people go about their normal life - the user of Felix just seems to spot 'opportunities' or just is more aware of the events going on around them - it heightens their perceptions to the point they can see unexplored avenues - I suppose for a want of a better word it opens the mind!
If there was magical properties to Felix - the implications of taking it would stretch well beyond the consumer and almost act like an Imperius charm - could make others do your bidding in an effort to get what you want ...

[Ana C.B.Rodrigues]

I'm quite reluctant about Felix Felicis. What Would have happenned if both sides had Felix Felicis? I mean Voldemort's and the order's side! I mean would they all die or would they bothe win? I think It makes Felix Felicis even more misterious. Is it something that can only used fo good? Once more there are stuff that steel be confuzing....If one side had the potion, why the other one doesn't?

[Alz]

I have read and listened to HBP quite a few times and the felix parts seem more and more to me to be a case of awareness than anything actually being changed in the persons favour ...
It's like all these 'infinite possibilities' Harry felt would be the same for anyone - it wouldn't change anything, not stack things in your favour - all it does is give you supreme confidence and self belief!
That is what felix does - its like a large injection of self confidence and makes you more aware as to what is going on around you ... many of us do many things daily on auto pilot ... if we actually switched on and started to observe - how different would things be?
That is felix ... awareness, confidence and self belief ... not multidimensional event changing wonderment!

[Ana C.B.Rodrigues]

I have read and listened to HBP quite a few times and the felix parts seem more and more to me to be a case of awareness than anything actually being changed in the persons favour ...
It's like all these 'infinite possibilities' Harry felt would be the same for anyone - it wouldn't change anything, not stack things in your favour - all it does is give you supreme confidence and self belief!
That is what felix does - its like a large injection of self confidence and makes you more aware as to what is going on around you ... many of us do many things daily on auto pilot ... if we actually switched on and started to observe - how different would things be?
That is felix ... awareness, confidence and self belief ... not multidimensional event changing wonderment!


Yeah probably.... but there are still some things to explain... weid coincidences. you rekon that Harry going to Hagrid's despite his duty was planned?

[Alz]

It is unreasonable to think, given what we know of magic etc, that felix would have the power to effectively change time and space around the taker ... because in effect that is what you are suggesting ...
I think it heightens awareness and understanding, opens the mind to other circumstances and more important makes them aware of what is going on around them ... the potion doesn't change anything ... apart from the takers perception and understanding of events around them ...