View Full Version : Horcruxes ***SPOILERS***
Heya - we now "know" that there are 7 horcurxes made by voldy out "there"...
1. Voldemort Himself
2. The Diary
3. The Ring
4. The Slytherin Locket
5. Nagini
6. Hufflepuff Goblet
7. ??????????
as we were told that voldemort likes to have objects of meaning and importance for his horcruxes we are led to bleieve that maybe anohter horcux is an item that once belonged to Ravenclaw or Gryffindor... we know it is not the Gryffindor sword - because that would have been destroyed by Dumbledore ages ago... and we have not yet come across something that belongs to Ravenclaw
after some deliberation and other chats with HP fans - i have a new "wild" speculation...
what if harry is a horcux...???!!!
he would then have to kill himslef to ensure the death of voldemort... wild and crazy i know... but maybe when killing lily the part of soul that split went into harry aftre being unable to murder him.....
strange... i dunno!? but could it be true...???
Well, Angel, it's definitely a possibility. Harry's scar could be a Horcrux, so he would have to die, in order to kill Voldemort for good. Or the Horcrux could have been in the Basilisk that Harry killed ages and ages ago... that would be two Horcruxes linked to the Chamber of Secrets, but one can never really know.
As for me, I think the last Horcrux CANNOT BE HARRY!!! That is because Voldemort told Dumbledore at the end of OotP, while possessing Harry: "If death is nothing, kill the boy, Dumbledore!" I think Voldemort would not have risked another Horcrux and just give it away to Dumbledore, like that. No, the last Horcrux has to be something that Harry finds with difficulty, but not at his own cost.
I actually posted this in the Divinations forum ... ;)
Reasoning is - Voldemort could sacrifice a piece of his soul knowing that it would remove the biggest threat to him and his mortality ...
For me - I see no reasons why Voldemort would risk a piece of him in finishing off his biggest threat - well with Dumbledore gone Harry is now Voldemort's biggest threat ...
Sirius Potter Fan
07-08-2005, 19:38
Another reason Harry couldn't be a Horcrux, is that Voldemort would have had to have done it on purpose. I don't think a Horcrux can happen on accident. :) Something like that most likely requires a complex procedure similar to that in the graveyard at his "rebirth" Harry has nearly remembered the entire scene, he remembers his mum screaming, then the flash of green light, . . . not a scream, a complex incantation, then a flash of green light. I also don't think that Voldemort would have waited that long to make his Horcruxes. Also, just because we don't know what the seventh Horcrux is, does not necessarily mean that it was the last to be made, it is simply the only one we cannot identify yet. It may very well been the first for all we know. And that fact in hand, if it were the first, Riddle may have just used any object he had handy for his first experiment, only that would fit with the diary wouldn't it. . . hmmm. . .in any case. . . it's not Harry!
All we are told about the Horcruxes spell is that it has to be done when you kill someone - chances are it is a few words uttered - just like AK or Crucio.
Sometimes you just need to go with gut feeling - and from the person that gave you Dumbledore to die in book 6 - he gives you Harry is a Horcrux in Book7 ;) :D
(Yah I know that is possibly the weakest argument I have given - still I just feel it :o )
Sirius Potter Fan
08-08-2005, 12:23
well, one thing that makes me think that there has to be a little more to the spell, is that not only do you have to have to kill a person, you have to have an object with you (at least I presume) you have to extract the part of the soul that split off, and then encase it into the object and seal it in some way. . . wouldn't want it to just float out some day now would we! ;) I mean AK is just a one shot thing, curse ->kill, but I think creating a Horcrux requires a bit of preparation. curse ->kill ->split -> extract ->encase -> seal. I just don't think Voldemort could have done it that quickly.
And anyway. . . I believe I also predicted that DD would be the one to die as well didn't I? ;)
we have been given a lot of info on false memories now, so what if someone was there with Voldemort and gave Harry a false memory of his mother screaming, and the flash of green light? Wild speculation? Yes of course. Maybe Snape the loyal servant was there to do that for him...see, V and Snape had it planned, to turn Harry into a Horcrux, (coz then if one of them must die for the other to survive, then it will be Voldemort who lives)...when the spell went badly, although Harry now a horcrux...Snape altered Harry's memory and took off to tell Dumbledore...
:o thinking out loud is dangerous
This is something I thought even before HBP came out (check out the Mature Potter Success threaed!) . . . and yes, I think it completely possible, and even likely, that Harry is a horcrux.
"neither can live while the other survives" - neither Harry nor Voldemort can truly live while the other survives . . . Voldemort, because Harry has a piece of him in him. And Harry for the same reason - he's got a bit of Voldemort in him.
Talk about a choice between what is right and what is easy . . . yikes!
There could be a way to get rid of a horcrux without destroying the object it is in . . . so, it might be possible that they find a way to remove the horcrux in Harry without killing him . . .
Sirius Potter Fan
08-08-2005, 20:38
OK, although I am not buying into this theory at all, for the sake of discussion, I'll buy in for just a bit. So Harry caries part of Voldemort's soul, that could be possibly why he has some of Voldemort's abilities, parsel tounge etc. Dumbledore even told harry that when the spell rebounded that it left some of Voldemort in Harry. so, if that is so. . . wouldn't Dumbledore have known that the remaining Horcrux was Harry? Wouldn't he tell Harry? If dumbledore could "sense" hidden things, or "magical concealment" wouldn't he notice it in Harry? What could be Dumbledore's reason for not telling Harry? (aside from DiE theories)
Mr.Prongs
08-08-2005, 21:40
What I am getting from this conversation is that those who think that Harry is a Horcrux is because Voldemort knew that they both couldn't live while the other one did. If I remember correctly, Voldemort didn't hear the prophecy. So the real question to ask is, Why would Voldemort make Harry a Horcrux? What would Voldemort Gain from doing this? and on several occasions Harry and Voldemort were alone (well, Voldemort and his host) so why didn't he "activate" harry as a Horcrux?
And btw, I dont think that Harry is a Horcrux.
What I am getting from this conversation is that those who think that Harry is a Horcrux is because Voldemort knew that they both couldn't live while the other one did. If I remember correctly, Voldemort didn't hear the prophecy. So the real question to ask is, Why would Voldemort make Harry a Horcrux? What would Voldemort Gain from doing this? and on several occasions Harry and Voldemort were alone (well, Voldemort and his host) so why didn't he "activate" harry as a Horcrux?
And btw, I dont think that Harry is a Horcrux.
Voldemort heard the first part of the prophecy - the child that was born that could bring about his downfall. By making Harry a horcrux, he was insuring that even if Harry did defeat him, he couldn't die, because he still had Harry. It is almost like saying, if he is going to die, he's taking Harry with him.
As for activating horcruxes (there is another thread for this) I don't think that happens. The Horcruxes prevent death, and leave only the need for a body. Horcruxes have to be destroyed to get rid of them, otherwise Dumbledore probably could have wittled away the seven of them...
As Kasher said above - Voldemort knew he was under possible death sentance ...
he picked the person he felt was the biggest risk blah blah .. as such makes Harry plausible ..
And as far as Dumbledore not telling Harry - it figures - you imagine what that would do to Harry's mind and also plan of attack knowing that?
Would be like telling someone they have x days to live ..
I think Dumbledore knows Harry will find a way to remove the horcrux from himself - and still live to tell the story ...
Fortescue
10-08-2005, 02:03
So what if the missing unknown Horcrux is in Hogwarts?
We've been shown the trophy room a few times throughout the series. If Tom was at school making Horcruxes, what better place to hide a bit of his soul than in a Ravenclaw trophy or cup in the trophy room at Hogwarts where it would remain untouched for centuries? Might there be a cup from one of the founders in there?
Sirius Potter Fan
10-08-2005, 07:05
that's an interesting idea. I mean when you think about it, often the best place to hide something is right under peoples noses. When you go to look for something hidden, you never think it is going to be in plain sight, you start looking under things etc. My only question on it would be, would Dumbledore sense the "magical concealment"? He said that is how he noticed the ring in the Gaunt house right? But maybe Dumbledore doesn't ever feel a need to go into that room and look at trophies, so never had a chance to notice.
Fortescue
10-08-2005, 08:00
But Dumbledore said the founders items Voldemort was looking for had a magic of their own or something like that. Would you notice additional spells placed on an already magical item?
halliemei
13-08-2005, 18:36
Something I've wondered about is Harry's memory from the night in GH. A lot of people think because he was in his cot and didn't see his parents murdered (per JKR) that there's nothing worth seeing. First, I think there is because you can move around in the pensieve. Second, we can see the spell used on Harry and what happened immediately after. At the very least we could know who else was there. My question is why didn't DD do this? My only theory is related to memory charms.
If Harry is a horcrux (or rather, his scar is) my thoughts are that TMR would have invented spells. Snape did, why not TMR. I think that there's a chance that he grew tired of doing extra work to make a horcrux, after AK. He made up a spell that combined the two, which he used when he wanted a horcrux from a murder (of course not at first, but after the first 1 or 2). So, he used that spell on Harry, which would be the one that backfired on VM and created a horcrux of Harry's scar. I'm still working out the details.
So, basically, I have two theories I'm working on. I just wanted to get feedback early on. Thanks, y'all.
OK - see now that is good :D
Think about it - a new spell that caused a death and sealed a horcrux at the same time - for the killing witch/wizard in a hurry :D
No I really like this ... I mean, we have never been told yet how Voldemort actually did the act of creating a horcrux - and we know that the supposed AK curse didnt go to plan.
Just wanted to pick up on your other point - Harry never saw what happened that night - that is confirmed because of the Thestrals in OoTP .. he heard what happened but didnt see it with his own eyes ... and I am sure in the PS/SS film when they showed Voldmeort attacking Harry was in a crib ...
OK, that will kick everyone off into a off-topic rant - please resist!
I do like the idea of a combination spell/curse. Voldemort has said that he used a few spells of his own invention in trying to perfect his immortality. That would certainly make sense that he would combine the two for ease and simplicity. Especially if he thought he might have to get out of some place in a hurry or something.
Blaise, no fair bringing up an off-topic chat and telling us we can't comment! :p (however, I agree with halliemei on this one - he could look in a pensieve and walk around the memory a bit - I think this was actually brought up in HBP)
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