PDA

View Full Version : Dumbledore's fire spell


George
07-08-2005, 10:40
Okay.
The most impressive image I have ever had of Dumbledore is that shown on the Bloomsbury cover of Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince. With a movement of a cowboy's lasso, he created a continuous ring of fire around him and Harry. This is, in my opinion, the epitome of the headmaster's power, and shows his brilliant skill at spellwork. Being so fascinated by this spell, I have decided to post a thread to attempt and figure out how some spells work, in terms of our Muggle world.
Okay, in order to create a flame in a specific shape, one has to provide a high concentration of a flammable material around an area. Since we saw fire erupt out of thin air in Dumbledore's case, I have concluded that it could only be a gas that kicked off the eruption of the flame. There are two major possibilities here:
1) Hydrogen: This is a possibility, as it is the lightest and most flammable gas of all. In theory, it is very easy to gather and light up- I think we all remember what happened to the Hindenburg. However, there is a better competitor for the title "gas of choice" in this spell:
2) Oxygen: Although it is heavier and doesn't burn quite as well as Hydrogen, it is more plentiful in the air we breathe, making up about 16% of all air. As a result, a gathering of Oxygen around the area to be lit is a lot more plausible than Hydrogen.
It is, therefore, my belief, that, in preparation to this spell, Dumbledore summoned a great deal of Oxygen around himself, and then lit it. Now, the next question: How did he produce a flame from a flammable material. Well, quite simple. I think that he concentrated his magical energy in his wand arm, and then forced it up his wand. Now, when a lot of energy reaches a point of small surface area, a temperature rise is recorded and, as a result, a spark is produced. If there is enough Oxygen in the air, then that spark would cause a fire to form. This fire would burn best in the places that the Oxygen is in high amounts. As a result, we have the unique form of the spell: As Dumbledore does the lasso movement with his arm, the spark created on the tip of his wand moves around and around, ensuring a uniform flame on all sides of the circle created.
When he wanted to end the spell, I think that Dumbledore simply waved off the spark, and summoned a lot of Nitrogen to the spot. Since the atmosphere is 78% Nitrogen, the Oxygen and its toxicity levels would be cancelled out by the Nitrogen, leaving the air pretty much as it was before, but adding to the place's overall "magical aura".
After finishing the spell, and getting away from the Inferi, we see that Dumbledore is quite shaky... obviously, the spell took quite a lot out of him. That is due to two reasons: Firstly, a prolonged spell drained considerable amounts of magical energy from his supply, leaving him weak. Second, Oxygen is, in high amounts, a toxic gas. While summoning all of that Oxygen, Dumbledore inhaled vast amounts of it, and hence poisoned himself. That's why he may have wanted to see Snape: an antidote for the liquid he drank, and the Oxygen he took in.
In conclusion, there is not much point to this thread. However, due to the unique movement of the spell, and the way in which it worked, I have decided to link the Muggle and Magic worlds once more, in order to provide an explanation as to how the fire ring that saved Harry's life actually works in our own world. I hope you have enjoyed it, and, if anyone has other explanations that link the Muggle and the Magic, as to how spells work, it would be nice for you to post them here.

Angel
07-08-2005, 10:47
hehe - kinda like it - but i dunno - im doin chemistry at A-Level..

althought the basics are there it isnt quite right

oxygen isnt a flammable material - it is reacting with oxygen which is "burning/fire"... so i dont think it is like summoning oxygen and then setting light to it... maybe with a different gas like methane...??

oxygen in high quantaties isnt "poisonous" but is only lethal as our body does not know how to ingest it as it is not used to having it in that abundance...

there are other ways of explaining it... but i like your thinking anyways!
Good Try!!

Angel
xXx

Sirius Potter Fan
07-08-2005, 20:36
Actually George, try this on for size, you are on track me thinks. . .:)

instead of a Gas, we would need a liquid, as he turned the wand the circle of flame spiraled down forming the barier, so it was heavier than the air. Molly Weasley had cream sauce coming out of the tip of her wand, so why could Dumbledore not conjure kerosene or gasoline out of the tip of his? and then as you said ignite it. I don't think Dumbledore was "poisioned" by the spell, but just that he was in a weakened state already from the potion, any effort, physical or magical would have weakened him further. And of course, it could just come down to what DW said. . . "a spell's a spell!"

dustin410
23-02-2006, 11:19
.............umm, it's called magic for a reason. Magic isn't supposed to be man made.

George
02-04-2006, 15:57
I, on the other hand, believe otherwise. Feel free to take a look at my thread on the origin of magic, dustin410. However, I feel that since magic is a part of people, a part they are born with, it must come from within. And, remember how Snape invented the Sectumsempra? Or the non-verbal spells? He made them, and therefore the magic can be man-made. The reason it's called magic, in my opinion, has nothing to do with who made it, but rather with the fact that it appears to defy several laws that represent the boundaries of human ability.

ChienNoir
02-04-2006, 17:28
.............umm, it's called magic for a reason. Magic isn't supposed to be man made.


Think about physics and chemistry. Matter cannot be created or destroyed, but it can be manipulated by various means.

Muggles manipulate matter by chemical and mechanical means. Witches and Wizards just use a different means, magic, to manipulate the same matter. So in a sense, magic is man-made, or at least man-manipulated.

Chemical reactions aren't man-made either, but they are man-manipulated. People didn't invent chemical reactions, they just discovered them. Perhaps it is the same with spells. Wizards don't invent new spells, they just discover them through research, trial and error, or just plain talent, the same way we Muggles discover new chemical reactions and laws of physics (well, new to us, anyway).

People, whether they are Muggles or Wizards, are just trying to find ways to get their needs met. There's more than one way to skin a Kneazle.

Le Blaque (sunburned - ouch) Dawg
:rolleyes:

Blanche A. McFusty
02-04-2006, 20:03
I would tend to think that the properties of the spell included a liquid rather than a gas, as well. However, O2 can exist in this form. I also think that magic is so much more palatable behaving in a manner conducive with the muggle world. Doesn't have to, though. I'm ok with that, too.

Snuffles
02-04-2006, 22:16
um.. i'm sorry, but what? lolz
sorry, i've never been really into science and stuff.
but since i've had basic chemistry before, i guess your thing does make sense, on account of how a fire needs oxygen to get started and everything.
=) Good job analyzing all this! whew!

Alz
03-04-2006, 09:57
OK - let me expose my ignorance by applying reason to a far higher discussion ...

Dumbledore told Harry in the boat that things that hide in the dark are afraid of light and then talks about fire ... that is of course not word for word!
Dumbledore knew that if the things lurking in the water were to suddenly wake - he could use fire to suppress them ... this means he knew he could produce fire.
Incidentally - Hermione can also conjure fire - but hers is a Blue flame - kinda similar to the Department of Mysteries torches ...
And then we have the black flames of Sir Nick's deathday party - once again flames in the dark and cold places ...
If you are asking me how he produced the effect to the extreme's of physics - sorry I cant help ... I think he just is magic and that is what created the fire effect - notice it was very controlled and doesn't look like Dumbledore risked the open elements but rather controlled the use of his fire effect ... a spell!
I suppose you could even call it a hybrid of the spell Snape used to set Hagrid's hut on fire ...