Two Voldemorts?

[Sirius Potter Fan]

:eek: OK, just a wild spec here. We know that Tom Riddle nearly made it to real life in CoS. Harry was able to stop him just in the nick of time. Well at the same time, the essence/soul of Voldemort was in a far away country possesing animals and people. So. just what do you suppose would have come of it, if they both had been successful instead of just one. What if Riddle lived, and Voldemort still returned??? Would they team up?

[kashlie]

I posted about this just today!! I got myself very confused as to what would happen.

I figure there would be a very creepy, magical scene, where Tom finds Voldemort, and in swirls of sparks and flame, the two are lifted from the ground and begin to twist and contort into each other, and in an explosion of fire, the two become one, more powerful than ever, still immortal, ready to rampage...


i doubt that Tom would let himself - his future self - be lost in the wilderness. He'd make a better side kick than Wormtail too. No hesitations from Tom to get the job done!
Of course, if Riddle had succeeded and killed Harry, then they could have used any wizard to bring Voldemort back. Even his own blood would have done...

OMG brain fry

[Sirius Potter Fan]

He'd make a better side kick than Wormtail too. No hesitations from Tom to get the job done!

I can't see either Voldemort/Riddle being second to the other. I could possibly see the melding of the two into a more powerfull being, only not shure it's possible. I think the older would use the younger to gain his strength etc, then kill him off. The two may team up together, but both would want to lead, and neither would accept the "sidekick" role at all. I think it would come to a big battle between them, just not too shure who would win, the younger and stronger, or the older and wiser?

[Alz]

In 'Chamber of Secrets', what would have happened if Ginny had died and Tom Riddle had escaped the diary?

I can’t answer that fully until all seven books are finished, but it would have strengthened the present-day Voldemort considerably.

Interesting right ;)
I cant help but feel this is simpler in effect - it would just mean he had 2 parts of his soul - both of which stronger by virtue of how they were bought about ... but re-intergration would prolly mean killing one of them and using Horcruxes to pull the second piece of soul back in ... possible maybe?

[squib]

Interesting right ;)
I cant help but feel this is simpler in effect - it would just mean he had 2 parts of his soul - both of which stronger by virtue of how they were bought about ... but re-intergration would prolly mean killing one of them and using Horcruxes to pull the second piece of soul back in ... possible maybe?

And wasn't the diary perhaps one of the horcruxes? It was destroyed in CoS, so perhaps that's another horcrux down, one more off Harry's "to-do" list, as it were.

But back on topic: If the diary was one of the horcruxes, I think that had TMR lived (by sucking the life out of Ginny in CoS) the two souls (young Riddle and adult Voldmort) would meld into one stronger Voldemort . . . then once strong enough to divide himself again, he could replace the horcrux to later regain his seventh. I don't think its a situation where two Voldemorts would then work together (or fight each other to be "alpha dark wizard.")

[Alz]

it was confirmed in HBP that the diary was a Horcrux - so indeed another one down.

The problem you have here - is that is Riddle had succeeded - there would have been a physical Riddle- albeit 16 years old.
That was the thing - if Ginny had died he would have got a physical presence.
This then begged the question that the Voldemort left from the night of the attack - the one that re-birthed - would also eventually become a fully fledged presence.
I suppose my thoughts were they would both be strong, physical Voldemorts - but to combine the power both souls would have to re-merge - meaning one kill the other ..
Would have been interesting to say that least if JKR had to explain that one!

This once again add's weight to the fact Horcruxes are used and not just exist in order to make full use of - also in this instance it seems that someone had to die to re-activate the horcrux and make it physical - is that a clue somehow?

[kashlie]

i remember it being said that not many people knew that Riddle became Voldemort. Had Harry and Ginny died that day, Riddle could have walked out of there, posing as a student (unless DD caught him on his way out, of course).
I think that Voldemort would give himself willingly to his younger body, because not only would he have the younger body and mind, but he'd still have all the knowledge of his later years, and an extra 50 years of life...and probably would be able to create another 7 horcruxes...

[Sirius Potter Fan]

OK, one think I am thinking. . . most believe that if the Diary Riddle had survived, then the two existing Riddle/Voldemort's would "merge" and become even stronger. If that were so, when the time of the final battle came nearer, would Voldemort attempt to "reincarnate" each of his horcruxes into a living breathing Voldemort to be absorbed back into himself to make him incredibly strong. Yes, I suppose he would have to have some incapacitated witch/wizard to sacrafice for the reincarnation, is that where he would get the extra strength/power from?

[Alz]

Then again - Murder rips the soul - so could have some interesting ramifications if he was ever to have done it against himself ...
You know - all asides it is a non event - I dont think we will see 2 Voldemort's again unless one of Blaise's really wild specs is right :D

[gumshoe]

Blaise, you said:
"...they would both be strong, physical Voldemorts - but to combine the power both souls would have to re-merge - meaning one kill the other..."


So, something like, "either must die at the hand of the other, for neither can live while the other survives..."

Hmm...

[Alz]

Blaise, you said:
"...they would both be strong, physical Voldemorts - but to combine the power both souls would have to re-merge - meaning one kill the other..."


So, something like, "either must die at the hand of the other, for neither can live while the other survives..."

Hmm...
Isn't it delicious right?
There is some wild spec where I think I might have covered this - somewhat from a different angle - but makes a nice comparison right :D

[kashlie]

That is a bit scary....considering the speculation that Harry is a Horcrux!
It fits though, doesn't it!
If Voldemort needs piece of his soul back, he must kill or destroy whatever it is contained in, but HE must do it, or the piece is gone forever.
He may have known that when he made the diary. He didn't expect his younger self to be killed by anyone, especially not Harry Potter, because he didn't expect it to be used like that. I am sure he had a plan to release the Basilisk properly.
Then when his younger self came to him, he would have just reclaimed that part of him, and made another Horcrux.

[Sir]

If this scenario actually played out (Young Riddle returns and then proceeds to bring his older self back from the spririt form type thing he was,) which one of them would get their wand ? We know that there was only one other wand like Voldemorts and it was bestowed upon Harry (Not easily aquired.)

[Alz]

I suppose another way of looking at this could also explain if Harry is a Horcrux.
So you have 2 Voldemorts - JKR said if there was 2 it would strengthen him considerably - could it be because he would have a 'whole' soul from the Riddle in the diary - re-generated out of the life of Ginny.
As such Voldemort thinks that the whole soul body would be more attractive than the decimated soul he shared and that was re-activeted from his Horcruxes.
So then - how would one absorb the other - kill him even?
But of course he cant be killed because of the Horcrux - so like ... emmmm how exactly would they have used 2 Voldemorts to a strength of the modern day Voldemort?

[kashlie]

We need to think it is possible for horcruxes to be transferred for this to work.
Assuming Voldemort would chose a younger and more able body to continue his work, he would instruct Riddle on how to make a horcrux. He coud then make one with what remained of Voldemort's soul, therefore be able to dispose of the body.

Of course, the other thing is, if he was able to transfer that piece of soul into the body of Riddle, he woud then essentially have one and a half souls. He would be more than a normal man, rather than less.
I assume Riddle could make himself a Horcrux in order to have that other piece of soul in him.
And as they are one and the same, I doubt there'd be any arguements as to which body would be sacrificed. Voldemort probably 'programmed' the diary to know that anyway.

[Alz]

Actually taking what you said and then what JKR said - isn't that the most likely?
If they both made each other a Horcrux - both would have to die in order for them to be really gone!
As such - it would have strengthened Voldemort in this time - because once again he had another way of protecting a piece of his soul - in another him - another one with the same skills, thoughts and power!
Nice one Kasher!