Voldemort and the Dementors

[kashlie]

Something I have been considering of late is Voldemort and the Dementors and what would happen if they turned on him?

i mean, he can't defeat them, can he? could he conjure a patronus?
i don't believe having never felt love, that Voldemort could produce the kind of happiness needed to conjure a patronus.
and they can't defeat him, coz he hasn't got a complete soul....they'd only be sucking out one part - the horcrux - so he wouldn't actually die or be left souless as those who have been kissed are... (this could support the 'used' arguement, by the way).

So, what on earth would happen?

[Piper]

Well he does have happy memories, like finding out he was a wizzard and getting to go to Horgarts, and leave the orphanage, and finding out he was Heir to Slytherin, I'm not sure that the happy memories have to do with love so much.

Surely his patromus would be a snake though.

The whole dementors thing does seem to support the theory that horcruxes are used, because you cannot have your soul sucked out if all of it isn't there.

[Tonks]

I have to agree with Piper on this one. I think that although Voldemort has never felt love, he has definitely felt happiness - remember when Harry's scar hurt and he said that usually it was because Voldemort was really angry but this time he thought it was because he was really happy about something? Chances are they're things nobody in their right mind would be happy about - killings, torture, and so forth - which makes it twisted happiness but happiness nonetheless..

So I do think he could conjure up a Patronus - think about things such as his success at finally being able to open the Chamber, killing his father, uncle, and grandparents, producing his Horcruxes.. and you know, that little thing about being the most feared wizard that probably ever existed.. ;)

I wouldn't be at all surprised if his Patronus was a snake of some kid - obviously the descendent of Slytherin has huge ties to snakes.. but it would be pretty funny if Voldemort's Patronus was something like a fluffy little bunny rabbit - ;)

[Alz]

OK - I am not so sure it is plain sailing here ...
Voldemort doesn't know love etc - I don't think he would have felt happiness when he got to go to Hogwarts .. I think he just didn't feel ...
The only emotions we are aware of Voldemort having are those of evil and malice - in fact Harry remarked he was only happy when he was torturing someone.
As such - when he was told he was going to Hogwarts - he didn't feel anything - just like as was observed about him - he had no real feelings.
As such - to conjure a patronus would be very hard - because you need feelings - happy thoughts ect - this would produce a patronus - well imagine if the happy feelings came from misery and hatred ... what type of patronus would that produce- makes me wonder ...
If he was - it would have to be a snake!

The lack of soul could explain how Voldemort was able to do business with them - they would fear him because in effect they cant hurt him!
I don't think they could extract the last part of him - because as we know that is the final horcrux.
I think they were faced with a person that they couldn't work out - that doubt must scare them ..
I wonder thou - what it Harry makes friends with a Dementor - could they suck the soul pieces out of a horcrux?

[George]

I thought of another possibility, in addition to all that has been added here: Suppose that Voldemort can summon a Boggart out of nowhere, or something along those lines, in order to repel a Dementor- very strange occurance that would be, but it is possible, right?
However, I think he need not go to those lengths- a Patronus should be okay with him- he does, as some people have outlined, happy memories.
However, I do not think that Dementors would ever want to leave Voldemort in the first place- not when he allows them to get so much killing and depressind done, anyway. By being Voldemort's close allies, the Dementors are fulfilling the goal in <ahem> life. They get a lot more happiness, and get to kiss people more often than they would in Azkaban. So I think there would be little reason for them to turn against Voldemort. And even if the Dementors DID turn against the Dark Lord, and he couldn't produce a Patronus, his Death Eaters certainly could, so he would still be relatively safe.
Blaise has put up an interesting question, though: A Dementor, Harry and a Horcrux. Sounds like I am tellin the beginning of a wizarding joke. However, it IS an interesting situation. But, I feel that the soul need not be sucked out of a Horcrux- when it is physically destroyed, the enchantment upon the object is broken and the soul bits inside it dissipate into the air, hence not being tied to their person, can no longer serve as a reserve soul- like it happened with the diary- Harry put the Basilisk's fang through it and the soul inside was destroyed- this is what should be done with the other Horcruxes, too. At least, that's what I'd do :D ....

[Fortescue]

Something I have been considering of late is Voldemort and the Dementors and what would happen if they turned on him?

i mean, he can't defeat them, can he? could he conjure a patronus?
i don't believe having never felt love, that Voldemort could produce the kind of happiness needed to conjure a patronus.
and they can't defeat him, coz he hasn't got a complete soul....they'd only be sucking out one part - the horcrux - so he wouldn't actually die or be left souless as those who have been kissed are... (this could support the 'used' arguement, by the way).

So, what on earth would happen?

It depends on what you look at as what might make Voldemort happy. Remember in OotP when he got happy about the Death Eaters escape from Azkaban. That was happiness only in the way Voldemort can do happiness.

Another aspect of what is needed to conjure a Patronus is the fact that it is your spirit guardian. Depending on how you look at the spirit/soul issue - if they are indeed the same thing, then he can't conjure a Patronus because he hasn't got enough soul within him to do so, and since two bits of his seven-bit soul have been destroyed, I don't think the combined lot would be enough to conjure a Patronus.

[Boing]

Interesting take on it, Fortescue (about the soul/spirit guardian). I agree with Blaise here about the Dementors not ever really bothering with Voldemort. He doesn't really have enough soul in him for them to bother with.

Harry does mention a couple times in OotP that Voldemort is really happy about something - remember when Umbridge touched him and it made his scar burn and gave him a sick feeling in his stomach? He said later on in the book that it was because Voldemort had been happy and excited about something and the feeling in his stomach had been something like giddyness. So, I think Voldemort does have some happy feelings every once in awhile, but I still am not sure if he could conjure a patronus.

[Alz]

I think the key to this is Voldemort's pleasure.
He takes happiness - somewhat emotion from fear, dread, torture, pain, sadness and the hurt he causes - this isn't what I would term happiness - but to him it is all the emotion he can muster.
Because a Partonus requires happiness - you get the desired effect ... but most if not all of the people use proper, happy thoughts.
If Voldemort is using evil, nasty thoughts but can attribute a level of satisfaction - somewhat an emotion of happiness - what type of patronus can he muster from that negative feelings of emotions?
I suppose I look at the patronus is built in positive thoughts and energy - what would happen if it was fuelled from a negative force such as Voldemort can muster?