View Full Version : Professor Trelawney *possible spoilers*
In the Order of the Phoenix, we see Voldermort desperate to hear the prophecy, At the beginning of HBP, Snape, Narcissa and Bellatrix discuss how angry Voldermort is that he did not get the prophecy before it was smashed. Clearly it's still high on his priority list.
He knows that Professor Threlawny gave the Prophecy to Dumbledore. Does anyone else think it is significant that after telling Harry of Snape's intrusion the night she gave the prophecy, Professor Threlawny is not mentioned again for the rest of the book?
She isn't mentioned during the fighting. She isn't mentioned at the hospital, she isn't mentioned during the funeral. Everything went down right in her area of Hogwarts, the Astronomy Tower. Not one word about her though.
Unless I have missed something.
How possible is it that the Death Eaters took her away?
I haven't got my book here or I would check on that!
I wonder now why Snape hasn't told Voldemort who made the prophecy. Unless Dumbledore had the memory removed from Trelawney to keep her safe.
So, why no mention of her now? Maybe she is hiding away, too terrified to come out.
Although Harry did see her when she was reading the cards...where did she go from there?
Ok, I really do think that she pops up when she needs to but since Harry doesn't have her as a teacher anymore, she's not going to be in and out throughout the whole entire book.
I don't think that they will have kidnapped her - as obviously Dumbledore would have noticed her being gone.. but then again, she could have been kidnapped the night he was killed (is that what you meant?) .. and McGonagall wouldnt really miss her..
Plus, it was extremely busy trying to plan for students to leave and there were so many people there for Dumbledore's funeral that maybe nobody would've missed her.. Classes did continue after Dumbledore was killed right? So, wouldn't her class have noticed that they didn't have a teacher and have informed someone?
You'd think Lavender and Parvati would've noticed at least.. ;)
Well, it says at the beginning of The White Tomb that all lessons were suspended and all examinations were postponed, but then it says that Ginny took examinations, I guess the ones that 5th years only take, the OWLs.
Now then - that is a great point ...
It has long been talked about how much Voldemort would have loved to get his hands on her ...
Hey maybe this links in with my question why we didnt see Voldemort enter Hogwarts - perhaps he did - on the sole purpose of getting her :eek:
It would be the perfect smokescreen - get everyone in the castle fighting his DE's etc - he pops in - grabs her and then makes a perfect escape :eek:
OMG - *goes off to check last few chapters of HBP* ;)
Fortescue
16-08-2005, 13:44
The last time we saw Trelawney Harry left her standing in the hall and told her to wait there while he went to rage and storm at Dumbledore for what Trelawney had told him about Snape being the one who overheard the prophecy. After Harry was through raging at Dumbledore and realized if he didn't calm down, Dumbledore would not take him to find the Horcrux, all thought of his instructions to Trelawney to stand in the hall and wait for him to come back and get her were forgotten.
He met her outside the Room of Requirements and wanted Dumbledore to hear what she had to say about being bodily thrown from the room and what she had heard there. She never got that chance after telling Harry about Snape. Harry left her on the second floor around the corner from the hall to Dumbledore's office. So, the last time we saw her was when Harry left her. He obviously forgot about her and that was the last mention of her.
It could be like Mr. Ollivander and Florean Fortescue: both men had a sort of connection to Harry and both of them mysteriously disappeared. Florean helped Harry with his History of Magic homework in PoA and got to know him quite well, and of course, Mr. Ollivander knew the secrets of Harry's wand. It's possible that something happened to her - that she was maybe taken that night. I just can't imagine her standing there in the hall waiting for Harry for the two hours he and Dumbledore were gone to the cave though.
It could just have been an oversight on the part of JKR, I knew I hadn't read anything about her after the death almost without looking because had there been something said about her, surely her having told Dumbledore of the cards would have been mentioned. So I looked, and nothing there at all. Kind of a big oversight really, the other teachers except for Mr Binns are mentioned, even Firezene.
yarvelling
16-08-2005, 14:29
I think her area of the castle is the North Tower, and not the Astronomy Tower...that would be Professor Sinistra's area.....
I think we didn't see much of her this time around is because she really didn't have a lot more to contribute....her main work is done now, having given the prophet by proxy, as it were, in OotP. She is still at Hogwarts and so can't be ignored, but had nothing more to add to HBP.
I only remembered there was a tower.
Harry did tell Dumbledore about Threlawny being in the room of requirement and hearing malfoy celebrating, just before they left for the cave, and we don't know what all dumbledore might have done in the 5 minutes that he gave Harry go to and get the Invisitility Cloak, so maybe Dumbledore had something done with her, to protect her.
The Welsh Witch
17-08-2005, 08:53
Why do all the characters see Trelawney as a fake when she made the prediction about the Prophecy and the prediction to Harry about Voldermort's return, she also plays quite a significant role in the HBP as she mentions an ill omen, violence, conflict and a dark young man, possibly troubled, one who dislikes the questioner when Harry is on his way to Dumbledore's office one time, could this be Harry? Also when she is thrown out of the Room of Requirement she tells him the cards are saying that calamity and disaster are coming nearer all the time and she mentions the lightning struck tower, could she have been predicting Dumbledore's death?
I also don't think that she would be any use to Voldermort as she does not remember predicting the Prophecy so would therefore have no memory.
They see Threlawny as a fake because when she is trying to be a predictor, she is wrong a lot of the time, now in HBP, it seems to be the exception with her in the cards, my take on:
an ill omen, violence, conflict and a dark young man, possibly troubled, one who dislikes the questioner
is this seems Malfoy to me, because we see the tears in the toilet room, and him arguing with Snape, when he is asking questions about the plans. Malfoy certainly doesn't like Snape, whom he accuses of trying to steal the glory. We know that Bellartix was teaching Malfoy Occulemency, and that SHE dislikes Snape.
Certainly she knew something would go down in a tower as well.
I also don't think that she would be any use to Voldermort as she does not remember predicting the Prophecy so would therefore have no memory
Does Voldermort know that though? Dumbledore has kept her around for years to keep her safe. So he felt there was a threat, and very early on Snape told him of telling Voldermort the first part of the prophecy.
It has long been talked about how much Voldemort would have loved to get his hands on her ...
Hey maybe this links in with my question why we didnt see Voldemort enter Hogwarts - perhaps he did - on the sole purpose of getting her
he turned up in the Ministry of Magic, why not Hogwarts too? This makes great sense. I wonder why JKR would have kept something like this from us though?
Why do all the characters see Trelawney as a fake when she made the prediction about the Prophecy and the prediction to Harry about Voldermort's return, she also plays quite a significant role in the HBP as she mentions an ill omen, violence, conflict and a dark young man, possibly troubled, one who dislikes the questioner when Harry is on his way to Dumbledore's office one time, could this be Harry? Also when she is thrown out of the Room of Requirement she tells him the cards are saying that calamity and disaster are coming nearer all the time and she mentions the lightning struck tower, could she have been predicting Dumbledore's death?
I also don't think that she would be any use to Voldermort as she does not remember predicting the Prophecy so would therefore have no memory.
You might want to take a look Here (http://www.maturepotter.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2673) - we were looking into the significance of the cards ...
The biggest issue with her credibility is the fact each time she has had a proper premonition - she has been unaware of it as she enters a trance ...
I think she spent so long, desperately trying to hold down her job as Divination professor that she used to make things up in between small patches where she can see the future - and yes we saw in HBP that indeed the cards were right as she was reading them ...
As far as her credibility goes, it could be that she is less credible because of the drinking, and hey that could be why she wasn't mentioned after the death also, maybe she was just in a drunken stupor:)
I suppose the problem is JKR was making her more marginal as we moved on from OoTP - she introduced a second Divination teacher which meant the focus was slightly moved.
She was more thrust into view because of her past and not current doings.
In OoTP she was seen only a couple of times - sure her contributions were pretty important when looking towards the end of the books - but in essence once again she ghosted in and out of the storyline with little coverage.
That is why it can be simply that she is drunk - but could also be JKR phasing her out of our attentions to better pull off a 'snatch' :D
Fortescue
19-08-2005, 14:16
When we see her in HBP she is walking around the halls of the castle, which of course, is because Harry no longer has her as a teacher, (see my sig:) ) but that is unusual in itself. She never used to leave her tower. In the first five books, the only time we saw her come down from the tower was in Harry's third year when he got the Firebolt; she came down to eat dinner with everyone. The second time was when Umbridge fired her and she was drunk and crying in the entrance hall. Now, in HBP, we saw her in the halls several times. Might that be something to wonder about as well? Maybe her true importance in the story is just coming to the surface!
Actually that is very well observed once again :)
You are right - in the previous books she would remain in her loft .. but now she is venturing out more.
I wonder if this is linked to Harry maybe?
Previously she would see him regularly as his teacher but now since Harry has given up on Divination - she no longer can see him.
She seemed to turn up around him a lot - I know that could easily be because the book is from Harry's POV - but she was even at Slughorn's Christmas bash - that seemed really obscure to me ...
Umm - if something seems strange - it is for a reason ... I think she might be another candidate to watch for during any subsequent readings - nice one Forte:)
Fortescue
21-08-2005, 14:31
Okay, apologies in advance. I got started on this and figured I'd just document every passage that Trelawney is a part of as I think she will be very imporant in the final book. :o If there is something I missed let me know! :p
It could be that she is attracted to Harry on some otherworld level. To our knowledge she has made two prophecies and both have come to pass and both involved Harry in some way. Remember her reaction in GoF, when Harry was in her tower during Divination and he dozed only to wake to the splitting pain in his scar after his dream of Voldemort. Trelawney tried to get Harry to stay, but he wanted nothing more than to leave. It's possible that she draws a certain power from him, and his absence in her class in Harry's sixth year has brought something out in her that otherwise might not have ever appeared.
Snape Victorious - pg 164
Harry was surprised to see the Divination teacher, Professor Trelawney, sitting on Hagrid's other side; she rarely left her tower room, and he had never seen her at the start-of-term feast before.
Notice how Harry thought it was odd to see Trelawney at the feast as she had never attended on in his previous five years.
The House of Gaunt - pg 195-96
Harry proceeded through deserted corridors, though he had to step hastily behind a statue when Professor Trelawney appeared around a corner, muttering to herself as she shuffled a pack of dirty-playing cards, reading them as she walked.
"Two of spades: conflict," she murmured, as she passed the place where Harry crouched, hidden. "Seven of spades: an ill omen. Ten of spades: violence. Knave of spades: a dark young man, possibly troubled, one who dislikes the questioner -"
She stopped dead, right on the other side of Harry's statue.
"Well, that can't be right," she said, annoyed, and Harry heard her reshuffling vigorously as she set off again, leaving nothing but a whiff of cooking sherry behind her.
The Unbreakable Vow - pg 317
The three of them made their way over to the other side of the room, scooping up goblets of mead on the way, realizing too late that Professor Trelawney was standing there alone.
"Hello," said Luna politely to Professor Trelawney.
"Good evening, my dear," said Professor Trelawney, focusing upon Luna with some difficulty. Harry could smell cooking sherry again. "I haven't seen you in my class lately..."
"Oh, of course," said Professor Trelawney with an angry, drunken titter. "Or Dobbin, as I prefer to think of him. You would have thought, would you not, that now I am returned to the school Professor Dumbledore might have got rid of the horse? But no . . . we share classes . . . It's an insult, frankly, an insult. Do you know. . ."
Professor Trelawney seemed too tipsy to have recognized Harry.
-----
pg 318
"Harry Potter!" said Professor Trelawney in deep, vibrant tones, noticing him for the first time.
"Oh, hello," said Harry unenthusiastically.
"My dear boy!" she said in a very carrying whisper. "The rumors! The stories! 'The Chosen One'! Of course, I have known for a very long time . . . The omens were never good, Harry . . . But why have you not returned to Divination? For you, of all people, the subject is of the utmost importance!"
Lord Voldemort's Request - pg 426-27
"Enter," called Dumbledore, but as Harry put out a hand to push the door, it was wrenched open from inside. There stood Professor Trelawney.
"Aha!" she cried, pointing dramatically at Harry as she blinked at him through her magnifying spectacles. "So this is the reason I am to be thrown unceremoniously from your office, Dumbledore!"
"My dear Sybill," said Dumbledore in a slightly exasperated voice, "there is no question of throwing you unceremoniously from anywhere, but Harry does have an appointment, and I really don't think there is anymore to be said -"
"Very well," said Professor Trelawney, in a deeply wounded voice. "If you will not banish the usurping nag, so be it. . . Perhaps I shall find a school where my talents are better appreciated . . ."
She pushed past Harry and diappeared down the spiral staircase; they heard her stumble halfway down, and Harry guessed that she had tripped over one of her trailing shawls.
"Please close the door and sit down, Harry," said Dumbledore, sounding rather tired.
Harry obeyed, noticing as he took his seat in front of Dumbledore's desk that the Pensieve lay between them once more, as did two more tiny crystal bottles full of swirling memory.
"Professor Trelawney still isn't happy Firenze is teaching, then?" Harry asked.
"No," said Dumbledore, "Divination is turning out to be much more trouble than I could have foreseen, never having studied the subject myself. I cannot ask Firenze to return to the forest, where he is now an outcast, nor can I ask Sybill Trelawney to leave. Between ourselves, she has no idea of the danger she would be in outside the castle. She does not know - and I think it would be unwise to enlighten her - that she made the prophecy about you and Voldemort, you see."
The Seer Overheard - pg 540-45
And then Harry heard a scream and a crash. He stopped in his tracks, listening.
"How - dare - you - aaaaargh!"
The noise was coming from a corridor nearby; Harry sprinted toward it, his wand at the ready, hurtled around another corner, and saw Professor Trelawney sprawled upon the floor, her head covered in one of her many shawls, several sherry bottles lying beside her, one broken.
"Professor -"
Harry hurried forward and helped Professor Trelawney to her feet. Some of her glittering beads had become entangled with her glasses. She hiccupped loudly, patted her hair, and pulled herself up on Harry's helping arm.
"What happened, Professor?"
"You may well ask!" she said shrilly. "I was strolling along, brooding upon certain dark portents I happen to have glimpsed ..."
But Harry was not paying much attention. He had just noticed where they were standing: There on the right was the tapestry of dancing trolls, and on the left, that smoothly impenetrable stretch of stone wall that concealed -
"Professor, were you trying to get into the Room of Requirements?"
"...Omens I have been vouchsafed - what?" She looked suddenly shifty.
"The Room of Requirements," repeated Harry. "Were you trying to get in there?"
"I - well - I didn't know students knew about -"
"Not all of them do," said Harry. "But what happened? You screamed ....It sounded as though you were hurt..."
"I - well," said Professor Trelawney, drawing her shawls around her defensively and staring down at him with her vastly magnified eyes. "I wished to - ah - deposit certain - um - personal items in the room..." And she muttered something about "nasty accusations."
"Right," said Harry, glancing down at the sherry bottles. "But you couldn't get in and hide them?"
He found this very odd; the room had opened for him, after all, when he had wanted to hide the Half-Blood Prince's book.
"Oh, I got in all right," said Professor Trelawney, glaring at the wall. "But there was somebody already in there."
"Somebody in -?" Who?" demanded Harry. "Who was in there?"
"I have no idea," said Professor Trelawney, looking slightly taken aback at the urgency in Harry's voice. "I walked into the room and I hears a voice, which has never happened before in all my years of hiding - of using the room, I mean."
"A voice? Saying what?"
"I don't know that it was saying anything," said Professor Trelawney. "It was ....whooping."
"Whooping?"
"Gleefully," she said, nodding.
Harry stared at her.
"Was it male or female?"
"I would hazard to guess at male," said Professor Trelawney.
"And it sounded happy?"
"Very happy," said Professor Trelawney sniffily.
"As though it was celebrating?"
"Most definitely."
"And then -?"
"And then I called out "Who's there?'"
"You couldn't have found out who it was without asking?" Harry asker her, slightly frustrated.
"The Inner Eye," said Professor Trelawney with dignity, straightening her shawls and many strands of glittering beads, "was fixed upon matters well outside the mundane realms of whooping voices."
"Right," said Harry hastily; he had heard about Professor Trelawney's Inner Eye all too often before. "And did the voice say who was there?"
"No, it did not," she said. "Everything went pitch-black and the next thing I knew, I was being hurled headfirst out of the room!"
"And you didn't see that coming?" said Harry, unable to help himself.
"No, I did not, as I say, it was pitch -" She stopped and glared at him suspiciously.
"I think you'd better tell Professor Dumbledore," said Harry. "He ought to know Malfoy's celebrating - I mean, that someone threw you out of the room."
To his surprise, Professor Trelawney drew herself up at this suggestion, looking haughtily.
"The headmaster has intimated that he would prefer fewer visits from me," she said coldly. "I am not one to press my company upon those who do not value it. If Dumbledore chooses to ignore the warnings the cards show -" Her bony hand closed suddenly around Harry's wrist. "Again and again, no matter how I lay them out -" And she pulled a card dramatically from underneath her shawls. "-the lightning-struck tower," she whispered. "Calamity. Disaster. Coming nearer all the time...."
"Right," said Harry again. "Well ... I still think you should tell Dumbledore about this voice, and everything going dark and being thrown out of the room..."
"You think so?" Professor Trelawney seemed to consider the matter for a moment, but Harry could tell that she liked the idea of retelling her little adventure.
"I'm going to see him right now," said Harry. "I've got a meeting with him. We could go together."
"Oh, well, in that case," said Professor Trelawney with a smile. She bent down, scooped up her sherry bottles, and dumped them unceremoniously in a large blue-and-white vase standing in a nearby niche.
"I miss having you in my classes, Harry," she said soulfully as they set off together. "You were never much of a Seer. . .but you were a wonderful Object. . ."
Harry did not reply; he had loathed being the Object of Professor Trelawney's continual predictions of doom.
"I am afraid," she went on, "that the nag - I'm sorry, the centaur - knows nothing of cartomancy. I asked him - one Seer to another - had he not, too, sensed the distant vibrations of coming catastrophe? But he seemed to find me almost comical. Yes, comical!"
Her voice rose rather hysterically, and Harry caught a powerful whiff of sherry even though the bottles had been left behind.
"Perhaps the horse has heard people say that I have not inherited my great-great-grandmother's gift. Those rumors have been bandied about by the jealous for years. You know what I say to such people, Harry? Would Dumbledore have let me teach at this great school, put so much trust in me all these years, had I not proved myself to him?"
Harry mumbled something indistinct.
"I well remember my first interview with Dumbledore," went on Professor Trelawney, in throaty tones. "He was deeply impressed, of course, deeply impressed. . . I was staying at the Hog's Head, which I do not advise, incidentally - bedbugs, dear boy - but funds were low. Dumbledore did me the courtesy of calling upon me in my room. He questioned me . . . I must confess that, at first, I thought he seemed ill-disposed toward Divination. . . and I remember I was starting to feel a little odd, I had not eaten much that day ... but then. . ."
And now Harry was paying attention properly for the first time, for he knew what had happened then: Professor Trelawney had made the prophecy that had altered the course of his whole life, the prophecy about him and Voldemort.
". . . but them we were rudely interrupted by Severus Snape!"
"What?"
"Yes, there was a commotion outside the door and it flew open, and there was the rather uncouth barman standing with Snape, who was waffling about having come the wrong way up the stairs, although I'm afraid that I myself rather thought he had been apprehended eavesdropping on my interview with Dumbledore - you see, he himself was seeking a job at the time, and no doubt hoped to pick up tips! Well, after that, you know, Dumbledore seemed much more disposed to give me a job, and I could not help thinking, Harry, that it was because he appreciated the stark contrast between my own unassuming manners and quiet talent, compared to the pushing, thrusting young man who was prepared to listen at keyholes - Harry dear?"
She looked back over her shoulder, having only just realized that Harry was no longer with her; he had stopped wlaking and they were now ten feel from each other.
"Harry?" she repeated uncertainly.
Perhaps his face was white to make her look so concerned and frightened. Harry was standing stock-still as waves of shock crashed over him, wave after wave, obliterating everything, except the information that had been kept form him for so long . . .
It was Snape who had overheard the prophecy. It was Snape who had carried the news of the prophecy to Voldemort. Snape and Peter Pettigrew together had sent Voldemort hunting for Lily and James and their son . . .
Nothing else mattered to Harry just now.
"Harry?" said Professor Trelawney again. "Harry - I thought we were going to see the headmaster together?"
"You stay here," said Harry through numb lips.
"But dear - I was going to tell him how I was assaulted in the Room of -"
"You stay here!" Harry repeated angrily.
She looked alarmed as he ran past her, around the corner into Dumbledore's corridor, where the lone gargoyle stood sentry.
That was the last mention of her as someone else brought up earlier. Harry left her standing in the hall around the corner from Dumbledore's office. Once he found out about Snape being the eavesdropper on the prophecy he forgot all about Draco and what he might have been up to in the Room of Requirements.
WTG Forte! :D
You know, looking at that and considering her importance in OoTP - looks a little meagre right :p
During a listening exercise on the way to work this AM - I did notice Dumbledore telling Harry that since Firenze couldn't go back to the forest and Sybil cant be let go for obvious reasons - that Dumbledore himself even considered letting her go ... Not sure if he would have followed it through but to say what he did make me think perhaps Dumbledore feels she had her day ...
She even talked about finding another school that would value her - might be she had enough at the last point you noted and she decided to leave ... placing her in real danger!
Perhaps Harry will realise she is gone and will understand the importance of finding her.
Fortescue
22-08-2005, 12:56
After going through all those passages, I get the odd feeling I have to say that she was probably no longer at Hogwarts at the end of that night.
Notice how Dumbledore commented that she didn't realize the danger she was in, and telling her about her bit in the prophecy would not be wise. I think that was just a small hint at what might become of her by the end of the book. Maybe Voldemort entered Hogwarts after all that night, he went to Dumbledore's office, found Trelawney standing in the hall and took her.
Think of the sequence of things. Harry found Trelawney after she was thrown from the Room of Requirements, while Malfoy had been "whooping" gleefully. The only reason for that would be if he had fixed the cabinet and tested it. It's possible that at the moment he was "whooping" a few Death Eaters might have already entered the school and he was happy that he finally fixed the cabinet.
"...Omens I have been vouchsafed - what?" She looked suddenly shifty.
I'm ignorant here - but what did she mean by that - looked it up and cant make any sense of it :o
vouchsafe
verb, tr & intr vouchsafed, vouchsafing
literary:
1. To agree or condescend to do, give, grant or allow.
Thesaurus: bestow, grant, confer, impart.2. To condescend to do it.
Form: vouchsafe to do something (usually)
i take that to mean someone or something is agreeing to the omens, or that the omens are now proving true.
I was thinking about the whole thing of having two divination professors. Slowly but surely, JKR is edging Sybill out of the picture - first, Firenze comes, Sybill leaves her loft more and more, and, my guess, she will soon leave the castle, if she hasn't already, and Firenze will be left with all the classes. This is a smooth transition compared to the DADA position, so it could go unnoticed by most of the students.
I think part of Harry's mission will be to find her, just in case she has any more premonitions in the wrong place, OR she is leading Harry somewhere, maybe she knows something, or maybe she is under the Imperius curse.
I think even Dumbledore was growing bored with her.
While he needed to keep her close just in case she tranced again - I think he found no real use for her.
Her Divination classes were not exactly enthralling and I even get to thinking that Dumbledore knew she wasn't the best 'seer' in the world.
What saved her was this uncanny ability to give premonitions at the worst times - as such he had to retain her somehow.
But see even Sybil was seeing that she wasn't with favour of Dumbledore anymore and was even talking of leaving herself.
I just wonder if she did leave - and when Harry finds out he knows how important she is - where as she has no idea of what she is carrying in that head.
I think this is something that keeps her in the story.
I also wonder if perhaps she might have another premonition stored in her - and Harry will get to hear it, perhaps helping him find the final location of Voldemort?
ldschick
24-09-2005, 13:20
OK, its seems kind of simple to me. The death eaters entered Hogwarts through the Room of Requirement, which is where Harry told Trelawney to wait on him. Is it possible that she had a run in with the death eaters, who did something with her on Voldemort's orders? Or would she have met Ginny and Ron outside while they were waiting in the hall for Malfoy? My guess is that Ginny and them told her to go to bed or something. They can't have told her what was going on, or else she would've tried to help. What do you think?
I suppose another question is does Voldemort suspect her?
I mean - why would the DE's try and take her if they have no idea exactly what powers she seems to hold?
I would have thought in order to make her a target - she would have to be identified as such - and Dumbledore was always pretty sure the only ones that knew about Sybil and the prophecy was him and Harry.
We know that Snape only overheard part of the prophecy, but did he know who gave it? If he did, then of course Voldemort would know and want her.
Dumbledore wouldn't have felt the need to keep her SO close if he truly believed it was just the two of them. I doubt he just kept her at the school in case of another prophecy, because it was likely a student would hear it before he would. Or Harry triggers something in her that brings the prophecies forth, of course!.
As for Ginny and Ron, did they know how important Trelawney was? Would they have even known to send her to safety? as a warning, perhaps they did tell her to go to her quarters, but she may have already left before they got there.
Ana C.B.Rodrigues
06-02-2006, 17:14
Well I think that pofessor Trelawney is indeed a seer however.. I think that the fact
that she's not given much atention is related to Cassandra of the grecque mithology i know several versions of it's "legend" well it is said that Cassandra was a good seer but as a punishment of Apolo no one would believe or understand her prophecies despite the fact that they were true ones.... and she also refers to be Great grand daugther of a seer named Cassandra... anyway... most of her predictions did happen and we must remember that when she predicts Harry's death... he almost dies... although he always managed a way to face his faith and fight it.
Well see with Trelawney - she only seems to get it right when she isn't even aware she got it right - but that seemed to change slightly in HBP ...
I suppose I should clarify that actually - she makes prophecies when she isn't aware - in HBP you can see her scrambling around the facts of what transpired - the troubled young man, lightening struck tower ... she appeared a few times in HBP and pretty much on all occasions she gave broad hints on what actually happened - that will teach us to dismiss her while in 'normal' mode right ..?
I still do wonder if Voldemort knows it was her - as much as he didn't get to hear the prophecy - the label on the shelf might have been readable by a DE - after all the DA members all ran off and left the DE's in that room in OoTP - possible one of the DE's had the sense to review where the prophecy was sat!
Ana C.B.Rodrigues
07-03-2006, 14:33
There's also that thing she said that when there were 13 peopl in the same table the first one to get up would be the firts to die...as far as we know Dumbledore was the first one to perish... so yeah...
I think that was in relation to OoTP in Grimmauld place and Sirius was the first to rise ... and yeah we know how that ended ...
Ana C.B.Rodrigues
28-03-2006, 08:58
Well I didn't noticed they were 13... good point ;)
Fortescue
29-04-2006, 16:28
Well see with Trelawney - she only seems to get it right when she isn't even aware she got it right - but that seemed to change slightly in HBP ...
I suppose I should clarify that actually - she makes prophecies when she isn't aware - in HBP you can see her scrambling around the facts of what transpired - the troubled young man, lightening struck tower ... she appeared a few times in HBP and pretty much on all occasions she gave broad hints on what actually happened - that will teach us to dismiss her while in 'normal' mode right ..?
That makes me wonder if her prophecies were not somehow aided by something else. Maybe there is another spirit around her that is aiding her in her tellings? She acts pretty much like any textbook fraud for the most part, yet when she does go into one of her trances she does seem to get it right, even though she isn't aware of what she said afterwords. Although, in HBP, she knew Snape was there, but I don't believe she realizes that she has ever made a prophecy.
I still do wonder if Voldemort knows it was her - as much as he didn't get to hear the prophecy - the label on the shelf might have been readable by a DE - after all the DA members all ran off and left the DE's in that room in OoTP - possible one of the DE's had the sense to review where the prophecy was sat!
First off, Voldemort, or at least the Death Eaters, had to know about the copy of the prophecy being in the Department of Mysteries. They had a spy in there before, so they obviously had one again, otherwise, they couldn't have known about the prophecy or where it was located. The Death Eaters could go there and look at it, they just couldn't touch it. Voldemort couldn't go there because he was afraid of getting caught, but when you think about it, the prophecy room was not guarded on the inside. He could have simply popped in and taken it and no one would have known he had been there.
Voldemort knew about the copy of the prophecy being in there - that was what a large part of OoTP was about - trying to get people in there to take it for him and then realising that the only person that could touch it was Harry ... hence he set about putting the pieces in place that meant he could get his mitts on it!
I think Voldemort would still love to hear that prophecy and it could be that he was a lot more interested in the lable now that he lost the prophecy ... I wonder if he would be smart enough to think about the lable?
Fortescue
30-04-2006, 16:06
I don't think he needs to see the label. If Snape did tell Voldemort what he heard and saw, he surely told that it was Trelawney he heard telling it.
You have to know the way that JKR ended HBP, Trelawney is no longer at Hogwarts and it seems that by the end of the book, no one seemed to know or care that she wasn't around.
See here is my thinking regarding that - and I wont take away what you are saying - but ... and there is always a but - Dumbledore believes that Snape telling Voldemort about the prophecy was his biggest regret in life and the reason that he turned to the Order and Dumbledore - on the off chance that is correct he wasnt about to do more damage by giving up more details on the episode ... and that would be my biggest defense on him not giving the names of the people involved in the telling the prophecy ... which means Voldemort might have had the intelligence to try and piece it together or maybe he did ask Snape and Snape lied?
Your last point is a genuine point - last time we saw her was standing right at the location the DE's and Malfoy came into Hogwarts from - who know, she might have decided to go back into the room to investigate and Malfoy took her and sent her through the cabinet to keep her quite and out of the way?
Would anyone realise the person and knowledge they suddenly had in their hands!
Fortescue
01-05-2006, 11:52
See here is my thinking regarding that - and I wont take away what you are saying - but ... and there is always a but - Dumbledore believes that Snape telling Voldemort about the prophecy was his biggest regret in life and the reason that he turned to the Order and Dumbledore - on the off chance that is correct he wasnt about to do more damage by giving up more details on the episode ... and that would be my biggest defense on him not giving the names of the people involved in the telling the prophecy ... which means Voldemort might have had the intelligence to try and piece it together or maybe he did ask Snape and Snape lied?
But, did Dumbledore ever come out and tell us that is why Snape converted to the Order? I don't believe he did. I think JKR just nudged us in that direction, allowing us to make our own assumptions. I don't think Dumbledore ever said anything about Snape regarding the telling of the prophecy.
Dumbledore said someone overheard Trelawney telling the prophecy - Trelawney's disclosure to Harry at the end of HBP that Snape was the eavesdropper allowed us and Harry to assume what type of relationship was between Dumbledore and Snape and why Dumbledore trusted Snape. I still don't believe that's what it was all about though.
'You have no idea the remorse Professor Snape felt when he realised how Lord Voldemort had interpreted the prophecy, Harry. I believe it to be the greatest regret of his life and the reason that he returned -'
Dumbledore said this - so yeah, I think Dumbledore thought and believed it all - and that was Dumbledore not JRK leaving us to make our minds up ...
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