View Full Version : Blaise Wild spec#2 Snape
OK - this one is fun ....
Dumbledore trusted Snape - everyone cant see why they he was so sure ...
It was believed this was due to Snape selling out the Potters by virtue of Eavesdropping ...
I need to jump around a bit here ...
Cave - Horcrux
The liquid looks like it is designed to kill - who better to try and combat the effects than a potions master - perhaps Snape was able to analyse and also figure out the properties ...?
Note left behind - well wouldnt it be a real slap in the face for Voldemort that the one person he seems to trust above all others was the one to do it - hence the mocking note
Dumbledore tells Harry he needs Snape - well of course - afterall Snape is a potions master and of course - could have the cure based on his experience
Also - Snape was able to help Dumbledore after he tried to destroy the ring Horcrux - perhaps Dumbledore felt Snape could help based on his own knowledge of the horcruxes
Perhaps Snape was also trying to spy by trying to get clues to Voldemort's horcruxes or at least the likely charms and protections?
RAB - could be a new name he gave himself after HBP - he might have assumed the HBP title made him too much like a DE - so RAB is a new name ..
Dumbledore trusts Snape - because Snape tried to make amends for leading to the Potters death by trying to destroy one of the things Voldemort needed to live.
Perhaps even Snape told Dumbledore about the Horcruxes or at least gave him enough information that Dumbledore suspected Horcruxes ...
Contradiction - biggest one for me - the flaw in my plan - why did Dumbledore go there if Snape had already retrieved that one?
Did Snape not tell him where he got his horcrux from - did Snape not realise that Dumbledore was actually going to the same location he had alredy been?
Just figured I would throw that out there - prolly loads more contradictions or perhaps someone might be able to beef it up slightly - all the same, figured I would share :D
Here is my Wild Speculation Theory
Romeo and Juliet Theory:
Shape is good not evil:
Immediately Snape tells Dumbledore of his Vow with Narcissa.
Snape doesn't know much except that years ago Voldermort asked him about some potions, one that would turn someones hand black and kill them without an antidote immediately, within a year with one,and a second one, that was green and would drive someone mad with pain and torment within a few hours and then kill them. They conclude that the first one was used with the Ring. They aren't sure if the other one will be in the cave, or if there will be something else protecting the horcrux.
When Snape comes into the tower, Dumbledore tells him mentally, "Dude it WAS green, man kill me now" so Snape does.
But Snape didn't know the potion was changed, by RAB, from something that certainly meant a torturous death, to something that would have killed Voldermort, because he wouldn't have had someone along to force the rest down, give him the water, and help him avoid the Inferi.
So Snape killed Dumbledore needlesssly.
Just like Romeo and Juliet :)
Loads of contradictions heret oo, not my real theory, just a wild one I had
yarvelling
16-08-2005, 14:24
Perhaps it was Snape that concocted the potion for Voldemort years earlier, the one that contained the locket Horcrux on the island........maybe later he warned Dumbledore of it's contents in order that he might be forwarned. I have wondered why the Bezoar didn't feature here; I thought maybe Dumbledore would have one seeing as he'd seemed to know that the liquid could well be poisoned. Well, perhaps he'd already decided by that time that he MUST die, or at very least, appear to die......
My post above was just wild speculation, it isn't something that I believe, just a theory that I came up with along the way. I should have made that more clear.
Well, perhaps he'd already decided by that time that he MUST die, or at very least, appear to die......
I still think Dumbledore will turn out to be alive. I know it puts me in the minority, and I know what JKR has said in interviews, but I cannot get past that idea.
The main thing that makes me think he is alive is this quote from The Goblet of Fire:
Pg 695: The phoenix let out one soft, quavering note. It shivered in the air, and Harry felt as though a drop of hot liquid had slipped down his throat into his stomach, warming him, and stregnthning him.
The phoenix song can also heal, not just phoenix tears, and Fawks sang a lot in HBP after the attack, also that Fawks did not try to save him bothers me, because we had seen him do that before, and even try to save Harry before.
Harry had told Dumbledore about Malfoy celebrating in the room of requirement just before they left for the cave, and there was a time where we are not told what Dumbledore was doing, the 5 minutes that he gave Harry to get his Invisibility Cloak.
There are other little things too, Slughorn wasn't mentioned during the fight, or afterward, except in Dumbledore's office, when he represented Slytnerin, and he seemed to want to send the students home right away, when it was decided that they would stay until after the funeral, pg 630 it says:
"I suppose...yes..." Said Professor Slughorn in a rather agitated voice"
That agitated voice has really stuck with me, why was he agitated, the potions expert, that there would be more people around for the burial? Because he had that venom from Argog the spider, that very valuable venom, that JKR never elaborated more on.
I wrote all of this under the Snape is Evil Thread before I realized there was another thread for it, early on. Some things I have changed my mind about, I really don't think now that Dumbledore was fooled by Snape for instance, at first, yes, but I think the stuff Harry was telling him was soaking in more than we thought, some things I have developed more, for instance I think R.A.B changed the potion, from something Snape was expecting to something that would have killed Voldermort when he came to check his horcruxes, because he thought it was the only Horcrux, and he could leave Voldermort reliving his worst memories at death, but the basic premise is the same, Snape is evil, Dumbledore isn't dead.
JKR too said that the Snape/Harry conflict was even more important now than the Voldermort/Harry conflict.
what if snape is only doing voldemorts work for him - because he wants to take over from him...?
snape is evil... - but wants to be bigger and better than voldemort... he helps dumbledore find and destroy the horcruxes to help him bide his time as a "goodie" and then knows that DD and Harry will continue to find the rest to finish Voldemort off... but what if in the end ....
Snape kills Voldemort...?????
and then in turn he becomes a feared evil wizard... would leave lots of loose ends at the end of the series but would be very unexpexted!!
xXx
Yes, Snape has helped Dumbledore find the horcruxes, but has he somehow gotten what the rest of the prophecy is out of Dumbledore and told THAT to Voldermort, because in the last book, getting the rest of that prophecy was at the top of Voldermort's list, and in HBP we have seen Voldermort conspire to kill Dumbledore, the one who KNOWS the rest of that Prophecy, it doesn't make much sense that he would want Dumbledore dead, most likey he would have wanted him stunned and brought in for questioning, UNLESS he already knew, from Snape, what the Prophecy is.........
Somehow Snape has gained trust with Voldermort, think about it.
:( no-one got any thoughts on the wild theory thou? :(
Not the slightest bit a possible future plot? :(
I can't take credit for this one, I found it on another website, someone suggested that since Wormtail has lost a right hand, and Dumbledore showed up with a dead, black, whithered right hand that perhaps throughout the entire book, we were seeing Wormtail as Dumbledore, because he had been drinking PolyJuice Potion!
Now THAT is WILD.
I had it all worked out and somehow my post disappeared. (Ah, so it is as a newbie, I guess.) Let's see if I remember correctly.
I was replying on topic. First, I wonder: Would Voldemort trust a 21 year old DE with making a super-slick potion to guard his Horcrux? Well, maybe, if Dumbledore would hire him a a Potions Master.
Having Snape be RAB ratchets up the dramatic tension beautifully, but what would RAB stand for? I get as far as Royally Awful Beast and Really A Bat...
The locket, of course, was meant to be a surprise to Dumbledore at the end-of-term feast, as a token of appreciation.
And then, imagine the future implications: Poor old Snape trying to convince Harry that he has the real locket!
gumshoe
I had it all worked out and somehow my post disappeared. (Ah, so it is as a newbie, I guess.) Let's see if I remember correctly.
I was replying on topic. First, I wonder: Would Voldemort trust a 21 year old DE with making a super-slick potion to guard his Horcrux? Well, maybe, if Dumbledore would hire him a a Potions Master.
Having Snape be RAB ratchets up the dramatic tension beautifully, but what would RAB stand for? I get as far as Royally Awful Beast and Really A Bat...
The locket, of course, was meant to be a surprise to Dumbledore at the end-of-term feast, as a token of appreciation.
And then, imagine the future implications: Poor old Snape trying to convince Harry that he has the real locket!
gumshoe
Yay - thanks for the on-topic post in here :D
You know I am still slowly convincing myself that he might have had the genuine locket - see other necklace thread ;)
How RAB fitted in I was a little unsure - I thought given how Half Blood was like him being prideful of his Pure Blood side - since he was now working for the other side he might have given himself a new nickname...
I think we saw how gifted Snape was at potions - I wonder if that was a draw to Voldemort - I kinda figured that it wasnt enough just to want to be a DE - you had to offer Voldemort some skill or trait he could use ... Potions would be Snape's forte :p
Secret nickname, being proud of being half what? Half Muggle or half Wizard?...Secret because he's surrounded by Pure-blood powerful people/Death Eaters, and he wants to connect to the power source? Proud because his mother must have known that Tom Riddle was a half-blood, especially if she is the librarian and as a student was in there all the time, maybe even helped him look up his parentage...? Would he think of himself as the rightful heir to the Dark Lord's throne because they're both Half-bloods, and see Harry as a threat, or not worthy of the distinction (of neither killing Voldemort nor replacing him)? In light of that, then -- wouldn't he be overly proud of that nickname?
I like Really A Bat better, myself.
Yeah, we saw how gifted he was-- then again, how much of what he wrote in his book came from his own brain? Obviously, understanding the book would help us understand Snape.
It's a tough call. I thought about that book for a long time. I really get the impression that he was watching Lily, much the same as Malfoy picking up good ideas from Hermione. (We even have the two identical quotes "filthy little Mudblood," Draco to Hermione and Snape to Lily.) What doesn't sit well for THAT, though, is that it seems like when JK uses mirrored passages, they usually contrast in some way. One contrast I can see here is that Draco freely and proudly admitted that he lifted Hermione's ideas, while Snape flatly denied needing or wanting any help from Lily. I can see him secretly having a crush on her, especially considering the word "crush" is used in his handwriting (!), but need for recognition would eclipse all other feelings I think.
I don't think the plot is as simple as Snape crushing on Lily. But I can see him watching her without her knowing, even to the point of obsession, if it appears that she's getting all his well-deserved recognition. What I can't see is Lily being as clueless about Potions as Harry was in HBP -- and Snape stepping in to tutor her or give her tips because of a crush. Ick.
(For the record, Harry likely would have been better at Potions had Snape not worked so diligently to "squash it out of him" for five years, or at least to prevent him from learning anything.)
RAB being Regulus Black seems so deus ex machina to me, unless Snape can be connected to it in some way. I CANNOT see Snape comfortably allowing someone else to take credit for his work, unless he's truly a good guy setting up a bad guy...Well, even then -- hard to see, isn't it?
Of course, we did see the locket at 12 Grimmauld Place, didn't we? Or was it a JK decoy? Could Snape have retrieved it from there, staking his rightful claim to it (knowing that he was the brains behind the fake locket operation)? Can you see Harry tracking down Mundungus, who swears under Veritaserum that he never even saw a locket?
However we twist it, Snape being involved in Horcruxes makes a lot more sense than Dumbledore merely trusting him because of a schoolboy's crush, and would be more effective plotwise, yes?
gumshoe
Somewhat agreed ...
I think Snape being involved with the Horcruxes would be consitant with him being almost central in the books ... as such I think he has a part to play in this as well ..
Both occasions Dumbledore was hurt from Horcruxes he called Snape - I dont think that is a co-incidence ... I believe he knew that Snape could help him on both occasions.
Snape had to be careful - being in the Double agent role - he couldnt afford to stand up and claim his handywork on this one - for if he did, would mean that he was Dumbledore's man and the Order would loose the best path back to Voldemort.
True, he couldn't take credit for it, if he had after all been RAB, agreed. I think all I was getting at is that it would make him twitchy, allowing someone else to take the credit if RAB was someone else and Snape was the accomplice. If RAB was Snape himself, then he'd be happy to sit on it and wait.
Snape knowing about the Horcruxes (as I think he must) casts a whole new light on the story. Puts a toe in the waters of Dumbledore is Evil, or at least gives a boost to Dumbledore Puppetmaster. I'm reminded of the heated discussion at the end of GOF, when Dumbledore says to Fudge: "The only one against whom I intend to work is Lord Voldemort. If you are against him, then we remain, Cornelius, on the same side." It's the very reason I'm not convinced that Snape is good, but that he is on Dumbledore's side. It wouldn't matter, then, if Snape was good or bad, wanting Harry dead or wanting Harry as a surrogate son: If Dumbledore thought that Snape knowing about the Horcruxes would help to take Voldemort down, he'd let him in on it.
I checked the other thread. I think that in order for the necklace to actually be the locket, there would have to be a charm on it to resemble a string of opals, or perhaps the locket would be embedded in one of the stones. It's a long shot, but I for one am open. If so:
Draco didn't send it: check. (Unbreakable Vow chapter, also Tower conversation Dumbledore/Draco)
Snape sent it: check. (He feigns ignorance...I can see it, sort of.)
Someone else sent it: check. (neither Snape nor Draco sent it, enough evidence to argue that neither Snape nor Draco knew who sent it.)
I guess what bugs me is why would Snape send it via such an unreliable route, if it was a Horcrux, and if he wanted to help Dumbledore destroy them? Or have I misunderstood you, Blaise?
And, if it was a Horcrux, why has it been in the hands of nineteen Muggles and returned to Borgin and Burkes, offered for sale?
Concluding (at last!) -- I would buy that Snape had the real deal, and the locket at 12 GP was a red herring; I would also buy that Snape was the brains behind the RAB transaction, if not RAB himself. The only way for the two to go hand-in-hand would be, as you say, if Snape coined a new moniker for himself. Which brings us back to the beginning of the thread: what else could RAB stand for, to suggest that he is Snape?
Doesn't anybody like "Really A Bat?"
gumshoe
You know Snape's mannerisms and features have been likened to a bat quite a few times- not as mich as when everyone was convinced he was a vampire and JKR cruelly killed that one - I for one felt the loss that day :rolleyes:
I suppose another contradiction in my intial thoughts is - if Snape had the Horcrux - why would he allow it to slip into the hand of another and end up for sale in B&B's?
I suppose my thought is that perhaps he positioned it there based on the fact that he might pursuade Malfoy to use it - but that makes no logical sense at all ...
I am so sure that Snape knows of the Horcruxes - he knew of the cave and he also knows RAB ...
The biggest thing here is that Dumbledore says it would require more than one person to pull this off ... ergo we have to assume the attempt that resulted in the removal of the horcrux had at least 2 people ...
I am now wondering based on my Jumper thread if in fact Snape's part was to watch the other person being dragged into that black lake with the horcrux still in their hands ... as such he knows the location and we know that Voldemort couldnt control the inferius in the water - as such that horcrux was pretty unreachable - but in fact this once again falls flat on the 'use versus exist' horcrux theories because Voldemort wouldnt need it if they just had to exisit - in fact having it in a place where no-one could get to it would really help him out :(
Truly, I thought for sure he was a vampire. He's never eaten onstage. Then there was the wine in this book -- did she show him drinking wine, then show us Sanguini, to prove her point? Or should we have been satisfied with the foe-glass? (nah...)
I REALLY REALLY like the jumper idea. If Snape was with RAB, and RAB was going down, mightn't he grab the Horcrux and run? If so, the jumper would be a protection. But that WOULD indeed be an "iron-clad" reason for Dumbledore to trust Snape, and here we are 16 years later, and Dumbledore doesn't have it? Or Snape is just telling him about it NOW?
Accio Horcrux and the Merpeople -- that rocks. Voldemort would never need be the wiser, anyhow.
But any way you look at it, why sit on it for 16 years?
The opal necklace being the real Horcrux is tricky, because it was treated so recklessly. Only if the sender didn't know what it was. I think it's possible for it to be embedded in a stone (not charmed) -- and if it came back home with Regulus, and was sold or stolen and made the Muggle circuit, was taken out of commission by the Department of Magical Accidents and Catastrophes, and someone in there was wicked and passed it somehow to Borgin and Burkes for a pocketful of Galleons... well, now, maybe...
By the way, maybe if RAB isn't initials, it's a saying or motto or incantation?
gumshoe
I think JKR is going to pull another blinder with the RAB thing - I just have this feeling it will be like HBP - no-one could have put their hand on their heart and said it was Snape - I saw a few people take an educated guess but not all out ...
I have to agree - why 16 years - but then again, took Dumbledore 16 years to give Snape DADA job ... I think Snape always played his part well - sat just on the right side of Dumbledore but never fully commiting - because Dumbledore refused to give Snape his total trust ...
I even wondered if that was the reason Dumbledore trusted Snape - because he waited all that time for the job and never lost faith - and when Dumbledore gifted it to him - Snape felt it was a chance to reciprocate the love and give Dumbledore something - he would have known Dumbledore was out looking for something - what if he said he could guide him to a Horcrux location ... not the actual Horcrux - that was up to him to sort out ...
The necklace/locket really is a hard one - I dont know why and I am unpopular saying it - but I really do think they are the same thing ... it just seems to delicous not to - the clue in CoS and the title of the chapter in HBP....
halliemei
23-02-2006, 18:05
Not sure where to put this. Last night, we saw GoF in the theatre again (5th time for me, thank you very much). And, something Snape said caught my ear. I wanted to get up and walk out immediately to come home and look this up, but didn't. So, I spent some time today thinking through how this could work. If this is better in Wild Speculation, please move me, Alz.
K - here we go:
Known Facts re: Veritaserum
The most powerful Truth Serum available, this colourless, odourless potion (which looks like plain water) forces the drinker to tell the truth
"Do you know what this is, Potter?" Snape said, his eyes glittering dangerously again.
"No," said Harry, with complete honesty this time.
"It is Veritaserum - a Truth Potion so powerful that three drops would have you spilling your innermost secrets for this entire class to hear," said Snape viciously. "Now, the use of this potion is controlled by very strict Ministry guidelines. But unless you watch your step, you might just find that my hand slips" -- he shook the crystal bottle . . . . from GoF pg 517, US Paperback
(note: in the movie, he says three drops would have even the Dark Lord spilling his most . . .
Look at chapter 35 of GoF (pg 684, US Paperback) to see how it worked on Crouch Jr
Then look at JKR's own website in FAQs related to the books (first question) regarding why no one had used Veritaserum on Sirius when he was arrested. Well, there's the point about Crouch being power mad and increasingly unjust, but then there's this:
could have employed a range of measures against the Potion - he might have sealed his own throat and faked a declaration of innocence, transformed the Potion into something else before it touched his lips, or employed Occlumency against its effects. In other words, just like every other kind of magic within the books, Veritaserum is not infallible. As some wizards can prevent themselves being affected, and others cannot, it is an unfair and unreliable tool to use at a trial.
Well, so what's this got to do with anything? So Going On:
Sirius/Regulus/Snape (and Daddy Orion)
Sirius - born in 1959 or 1960, died in 1996, Gryffindor
Regulus - born in 1961, died in 1979, Slytherin
Snape - born in 1959 or 1960, alive at this point, Slytherin
Orion - born in 1929, died in 1979, Slytherin
If this is true, Regulus and Snape were in Slytherin for 6 years together. It's likely they knew each other in Hogwarts. We know that it appears in Snape's Worst Memory that Snape didn't have friends in the same year, but didn't you know people a year younger/older than you in school?
Snape and Regulus were DEs together, and apparently both quit or wanted to quit.
So, what about Regulus. What do we know? Well, he was killed before Harry was born -- some time in 1979 (per the Black Family Tree) vs. July 1980. If in November or December, it's POSSIBLE that it was after Harry was conceived. He was killed. But, how did he die? Pg 112, OotP hardback US says
"Oh no," said Sirius. "No, he was murdered by Voldemort. or on Voldemort's orders, more likely, I doubt Regulus was ever important enough to be killed by Voldemort in person. From what I found out after he died, he got in so far, then panicked about what he was being asked to do and tried to back out. Well, you don't just hand in your resignation to Voldemort. It's a lifetime of service or death."
But, he's still on the tapestry. Since Mum died in 1985, there's something weird there.
Snape joined sometime around 1978 when he finished Hogwarts. Per DD in GoF (pg 590 US paperback)
Dumbledore had gotten to his feet.
"I have given evidence already on this matter," he said calmly. "Severus Snape was indeed a Death Eater. However, he rejoined our side before Lord Voldemort's downfall and turned spy for us, at great personal risk. He is now no more a Death Eater than I am."
Besides the DiE OBVIOUS overtones, we go on. Snape was hired as Potions Master & Head of Slytherin House at Hogwarts in 1981 (determined from the discussion with Umbridge in chapter 17 of OotP); made Defense against the Dark Arts professor in 1996. Per DD, the reason he trusts Snape is (pg 549, HBP US)
"You have no idea of the remorse Professor Snape felt when he realized how Lord Voldemort had interpreted the prophesy, Harry. I believe it to be the greatest regret of his life and the reason that he returned --"
That's IT!
So, then there is the return of Snape to VM. He did so after the graveyard, on DD's orders in GoF. He confirms so in HBP when talking with Bella and Narcissa. I'm not going to quote the entire Spinners End chapter, but I'd say most of us know it really well. As such, he remains a double agent for two years AFTER VM's return (OotP and HBP).
What else do we know about Snape?
he invented spells (HBP book is full of them)
he is a master potions brewer -- see Lupin's comments in PoA concerning the Wolfsbane potion he has brewed
he is a MASTER Occlumens (per Lupin in OotP - not denied by DD in HBP)
from JK Rowling's World Book Day Chat, March 4, 2004 Ernie: I wonder if you can let us know what form will Professor Snape's Boggart and Patronus take? I am very curious.
JK Rowling replies -> Well, I'm not going to tell you Ernie, but that's because it would give so much away. I wonder whether Ernie is your real name? (It was my grandfather's).
J K Rowling at the Edinburgh Book Festival You always see a lot of Snape, because he is a gift of a character. I hesitate to say that I love him. [Audience member: I do]. You do? This is a very worrying thing. Are you thinking about Alan Rickman or about Snape? [Laughter]. Isn’t this life, though? I make this hero—Harry, obviously—and there he is on the screen, the perfect Harry, because Dan is very much as I imagine Harry, but who does every girl under the age of 15 fall in love with? Tom Felton as Draco Malfoy. Girls, stop going for the bad guy. Go for a nice man in the first place. It took me 35 years to learn that, but I am giving you that nugget free, right now, at the beginning of your love lives.
And finally from the TLC/MN interview last summer
MA: Oh, here’s one [from our forums] that I’ve really got to ask you. Has Snape ever been loved by anyone?
JKR: Yes, he has, which in some ways makes him more culpable even than Voldemort, who never has. Okay, one more each!
Just one last thing. We know Snape started at Hogwarts teaching in 1981 (assume September). Trelawney started during the year it would seem since she was interviewed in the fall and "nearly" would be inaccurate if she started in September, plus she was hired after the prophesy which occurred on a cold, wet night (likely winterish). That would be 1995 - 16 years (New years, 1980?).
'Now,' said Umbridge, looking up at Trelawney, 'you've been in this post how long, exactly?'
Professor Trelawney scowled at her, arms crossed and shoulders hunched as though wishing to protect herself as much as possible from the indignity of the inspection. After a slight pause in which she seemed to decide that the question was not so offensive that she could reasonably ignore it, she said in a deeply resentful tone, 'Nearly sixteen years.'
So, on to the oddities and I'm sure you're wondering WHAT this has to do with RAB :p
Snape his allegiance from one or both - DD and VM. HOW?
Trelawney's recollection of events vs DD's vs logic on the prophesy. DD says that the prophesy was interrupted by the one who overheard (Snape). Trelawney's version in chapter 25 of HBP doesn't give an interruption until after she finished the prophesy. And, we've all discussed that the interruption doesn't make sense.
How did DD figure out horcruxes, specifically where to go to the cave?
How could RAB figure out horcruxes?
So, could Snape have helped Regulus find out about horcruxes using Veritaserum and Occlumency?
Sorry it's so long, but I just got going. :rolleyes:
OK - Like it a lot!
I have added it to a thread where I was toying with the idea that Snape could have been the other person with RAB - hope you think it is OK here!
Going back to the initial post I made, I am quite happy to state that Snape isnt RAB - amendment to that is he knew and helped RAB ... and I think he may have even shopped RAB to Voldemort ... thus earning his trust ... think about it, Snape telling him that someone found something belonging to him and trying to destroy it ...
I think Snape would have even played ignorant to knowing exactly what it all was and meant ...
perhaps that is why Voldemort is willing to trust him so much - because the guy has information that could lead to at least one of his horcruxes ...
SnarkologyMajor
24-02-2006, 01:42
Awesome halliemei:D-you really put the pieces together in this post. I've always thought that the cast of characters is just too darn big, and that clearly Snape is going to fit into the puzzle in a way that takes most off guard. Snape and Regulus working together makes alot of sense and can defo. see how that would work. This 1979 death date for Reg-has me confused, I know we've all concluded that Harry must have been born in 1980-but is there a possibility that's off? If we go by what we were told in OOTP, that he died 15 yrs. previously and that was definately summer-it sure doesn't add up. I hate timelines:eek: This is going to digress but what the heck-it is becoming increasingly difficult to seperate Snape and RAB in my mind. I always figured that if Snape turns out to be one of our good guys(which I believe he is), then Voldemort must have done something to really, really, really, **** him off! And the tone of RAB's note shows this kind of extreme anger, could Voldemort have made both Regulus and Snape that angry?
Also-Snape being the supposed eavesdropper, Regulus stealing a horcrux, the prophecy being made known to Voldemort, Regulus supposedly dying, and Harry(the one w/power the Dark Lord knows not) being born-all around the same time-are far too many coincedences to be coincedental. It also seems to me that Sirius changing secret-keepers at the last minute and J.K.R.'s answer that the secret dies with the person-all fit together somehow....
halliemei
24-02-2006, 05:43
Thanks for moving me, Alz. I agree - this is a much better fit for the post. It's funny to see others thinking along the lines I was in just wild spec (absolutely no cannon == at best 3rd degree) related to Snape being with Reg. I had the brainstorm b/c of the boat only allowing one to travel. If Snape is a bat animagus, he could fly. Cool! :D
I'll keep working on this, because I agree that there is just too much coincidence here. I think the dates (the actual dates, not years) of Reg's and Orion's deaths will be linked (perhaps Orion was killed for VM - at his orders - and Reg knew it and it was a final straw?). I think Snape's feelings for Lily are lumped in here too. But, as much as I also hate timelines, I think if we're going to work this out that we're going to have to dissect it. She wrote out the entire family tree for a reason. I'm sure that she's taken some liberties at times to deal with the specific language (some 15 years earlier as opposed to the true 16 years it would have been at the beginning of OotP). I just know the prophesy timeline is here somehow. And, Snape (it seems to me) is the ONLY one who's been able to get to the Dark Lord's deepest secrets. VM trusts him like DD did - despite himself.
Quick edit to say -- ask my friends. I've been saying for a year or so now that the HP saga is REALLY the story of Snape. Like Star Wars wasn't REALLY about Luke and Leia in 1979, but rather about Vader, Harry Potter is just a vehicle to hear the story of Snape.
Another thought occurs here ...
Say RAB and Snape decide they want to do some mutual redeeming and moving to the good side ... they have seen the DE's for what they are ...
So, they combine this knowledge they both have accumulated and work out not only Voldemort is making horcruxes - but even where one might be ...
They set off for the horcrux and they find it - nature takes its course and RAB drinks the potion - he is a gonna right?
What if he says he can buy time - he gives the Horcrux to Snape, Snape conceals it ... then knowing RAB is going to die - he tells Snape to take him to Voldemort ...
Snape tells Voldemort that he caught RAB doing something, he wasn't sure, of course Voldemort does know and then either kills RAB or asks Snape/someone else to do it ... then is left with the dilemma that Snape knows something about this cave etc ... might be forced to either kill him or keep him close ...
That is all total spec - but I just cant help but feel Voldemort utters to other DE's that he trusts Snape ... and wont tell them why ... but his trust is absolute ... same as Dumbledore
I think Snape has come across as the one DE that seems closer to Voldemort than any other and the fact he is a fantastic mind blocker just adds to the repertoire!
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