Where was Fawkes?

[The Welsh Witch]

When Dumbledore was in trouble on the top of the tower, where was Fawkes?
Fawkes was loyal to Dumbledore and would help anyone else who was loyal to him, hence his appearance in The Chamber of Secrets with the sorting hat, Harry had unwittingly called him to help, so if Harry could do it I'm damn sure Dumbledore could.

If Fawkes had come he could have lifted Dumbledore to safety or failing that restored his wand to him, so why didn't he appear in his time of need?

[Piper]

I think he was there when Dumbledore fell from sight, but I am one that thinks Dumbledore isn't dead.

The only reasons, if Dumbledore IS dead I can think of that Fawks wouldn't have shown is that Dumbledore froze him like Harry. It says he was in the office when Harry stormed in Angry, pg 456

'Fawkes the phoenix looked around, his big bright black eyes gleaming with reflected gold from the sunset beyond the windows."

Or, sent him away somewhere. Or if something happened when Fawks swallowed the green light in the MoM that prevents him from doing something like that again.

[Alz]

Actually a great point!
Fawkes took a AK from Dumbledore in OoTP in the Ministry right?

I think this comes back to the same thing we are all thinking about - the actual incident ...
Draco or Snape had to kill Dumbledore - there was no way around it for both of them ...
As such - if Fawkes had stepped in - Dumbledore would have been forced into exposing Snape and also leading to Draco becoming a target for Voldemort ...
Dumbledore had to die ... you are right it could have been prevented ... but I think even he knew he had to die ...
Makes you wonder how or why Fawkes couldnt save Dumbledore's hand - phoenix tears and all ... ummmm

[Piper]

Didn't Dumbledore use Fawks to deliver messages like an owl sometimes? To other Order of the Phoenix members he would send a patromus, but what about if he had sent a message to somene who wasn't in the order?

[The Welsh Witch]

I'm another one who doesn't believe Dumbledore is dead, I don't think Fawkes would not come to his aid if he thought he was in danger, even if he had used him to send a message, the Death Eaters may have got to him but I doubt it, I really do think (hope) that this may have been an elaborate plan by Snape and Dumbledore to fool Voldermort into thinking he was gone, I can't believe that the reason Dumbledore insisted Snape was ok was as simple as Dumbledore just trusting him, there has to be more to it than that, why did Snape shout " No unforgivable curses from you, Potter " at the end of 'Flight of the Prince', was he protecting him? After all they're not called UNFORGIVEABLE curses without reason, when have we seen the good guys use them? And why didn't Snape just kill Harry then and there, only Harry and Dumbledore knew the full prophecy so the remark about Potter belonging to the Dark Lord doesn't ring true somehow.

Also the flames which covered Dumbldore's body at the funeral then disappeared to reveal a tomb, how do we know his body is in there?

Dumbledore is a very powerful Wizard!!!!

[Alz]

Gosh it is like Sirius all over again :rolleyes:
Still think the portrait in his office speaks the most - and the fact Minerva could now get access ;)
Didn't Dumbledore use Fawks to deliver messages like an owl sometimes? To other Order of the Phoenix members he would send a patromus, but what about if he had sent a message to somene who wasn't in the order?
I dont think so ... could be wrong ...
He had a phoenix patronus which was seen a few times as a signal ...
Fawkes only seemed to strive out of his office for CoS and helping Harry - and then the next memorable was OoTP and the DoM face off between Harry/Dumbledore and Voldemort ...

[Sirius Potter Fan]

Well, looking at the parallels betwen HP and LotR, I wouldn't put it past JKR to have Dumbledore pull a Gandalf, and it turn out to be a trick. When you think about the flames and the tomb, and also remember that the portrait of Dumbledore was asleep. And yes, McGonagal did have access to the office, but that would have been simple to set up ahead of time, and a fake "sleeping" portrait could be a clever addition I think. . . I would say that it is in the realm of possibility that he is not in truth dead. Of course, with everyone believing him dead, it would leave him free to search for the Horcruxes and destroy them.

But it just doesn't seem right to me somehow. For one, I don't see Dumbledore leaving the school in a position where it may need to close, or to willingly leave it without his protection, the school has always been Dumbledore's first priority. I also can't see Dumbledore putting Harry through loosing another loved one falsely. Dumbledore has done his best to protect Harry in the past, perhaps as he has said himself, protecting him too much.

[Piper]

But it just doesn't seem right to me somehow. For one, I don't see Dumbledore leaving the school in a position where it may need to close, or to willingly leave it without his protection, the school has always been Dumbledore's first priority. I also can't see Dumbledore putting Harry through loosing another loved one falsely. Dumbledore has done his best to protect Harry in the past, perhaps as he has said himself, protecting him too much.

Big Picture here, if Voldermort isn't killed, all will be lost anyway.

Back to Falks though, it's interesting to note that JKR refuses to comment on whether or not we will see him again, that was in the interview with mugglenet, which I take to assume he will be there, because she left it with him not being around. So at the very least, maybe she will tell us why he didn't come to Dumbledore's aide if Dumbledore is dead.

[mimbulus mimbletonia]

I think Fawkes didn't come to Dumbledore's aid because DD simply didn't ask him to. DD knew he had to die.

I also think Fawkes will help Harry in book 7, so DD wouldn't want him in danger. Although whether or not Fawkes would be in danger is debatable. :p

[Sirius Potter Fan]

One thing about Fawkes,. . . Phoenix's are immortal, and Fawkes has likely been through many "owners", and most likely will present himself to someone in the next book, I kinda doubt that we just won't hear from him again. As the Gryffindor colors are the Phoenix colors, I think it likely that he belonged to Godric, and stays in the Gryffindor line. Which, I believe JKR did tell us that Harry was in the Gryffindor line, so it could be that Fawkes will come to him to assist him when he is in need of him. As far as where he went, maybe mourning, and deciding what's next. From the Highlander movies and others, we have learned that all "immortals" try to stay away from close bonds as they have loved and lost so many, and Fawkes may indeed stay away untill needed. . . . of cours, he could have simply been going to meet up with Dumbledore somewhere :p

[Piper]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/newsid_4690000/newsid_4690800/4690885.stm

In this interview, JKR answers this question:

Peter Humphreys for BBC Newsround. - Who did Fawkes previously belong to and will he play a vital role in the next book?
JK Rowling: I am not going to answer about the role in the next books, which probably gives you a big clue, and he has never been owned by anyone but Dumbledore. You will notice that when Harry goes back in the Pensieve in this book, Fawkes is never there, and ** no, I am sorry, not in this book, I take that back. When Harry has previously seen the study with a different headmaster he saw it with Dippet and Fawkes was not there then. Fawkes is Dumbledore's possession, not a Hogwarts possession.

[Alz]

When Dumbledore was in trouble on the top of the tower, where was Fawkes?
Fawkes was loyal to Dumbledore and would help anyone else who was loyal to him, hence his appearance in The Chamber of Secrets with the sorting hat, Harry had unwittingly called him to help, so if Harry could do it I'm damn sure Dumbledore could.

If Fawkes had come he could have lifted Dumbledore to safety or failing that restored his wand to him, so why didn't he appear in his time of need?
I think if we were to look at this at the most basic level - it suggests that Dumbledore didnt want to be saved ... this is very telling in the whole episode.
I'm used to think you had to call it - but then OoTP and somewhat CoS showed us Fawkes is sensitive on other levels .. and really comes to aid when someone's life is in danger - the fact he didnt come for Dumbledore just says a thousand unwritten words ... :)

[Norbert]

Agreed, Agreed, Agreed!!!

The first thing I thought of when that horrible episode on top of the astronamy tower came to an end is "Where the H E Double Hockey sticks is Fawkes!!!"

Upon sombre reveiw, it becomes evident that Dumbledore is aware that someone is going to die - either himself or Draco if he doesn't convince Draco to accept his protection. Fawkes doesn't come because Dumbledore orders him to stay away! Fawkes would obey Dumbledore even if his orders meant Dumbledores immenent death - Just the kind of loyalty that Dumbledore demanded of Harry before allowing him to accompany him on the quest for the Horcrux! Dumbledore stayed Fawkes for the exact same reasons that he frose Harry! If anyone interviened Draco's mission, it would spell his death.

I am quite convinced that Dumbledore had no fear that Malfoy would kill him. He was purely (As he quite plainly laid out to Draco) acting in Draco's best interest. However, once the other four death eaters showed up it became complicated. Now, if Dumbledore allowed Fawkes to intervene, it would spell Draco's death!

I strongly feel that Dumbledore is gone forever. Yes, he is dead. Harry knows this the moment that Dumbledores binding charm let's go! He has not faked his death.

The really burning question is regarding Snape - but that's another thread!

Will we see fawkes again - Absolutely! He will come to Harry's aid much like he did in COS! Will he become loyal to Harry (Belonging to Harry) as he did Dumbledore? I don't know, but I think not.

[Alz]

Once again - a fine contribution there my friend!

Dumbledore for all his flaws (and regardless of his motivations) isnt about to let someone else die ...
I think he was confronted not just with Draco being killed but also Snape - we know that Snape vowed to protect Draco and do the job if it came to it.
I think Dumbledore was already on the path to death - the same as RAB and as such, he realised he could save at least one and indirectly 2 people by allowing himself to be sacrificed ... but what it more he gave Harry yet more motivations to continue in his mission.
Fawkes as you said was just as loyal as all those around Dumbledore - if Dumbledore somehow communicated to Fawkes his desires - to not come and save him - Fawkes would have remained.

[Dumbledore]

I also think that Dumbledore told Fawkes not to come and save him. As for why he didn't heal his hand Dumbledore said it was a dark curse and maybe Fawkes couldn't cure it!:)

[Alz]

I also think that Dumbledore told Fawkes not to come and save him. As for why he didn't heal his hand Dumbledore said it was a dark curse and maybe Fawkes couldn't cure it!:)
The last part - you really think that?
I got the impression that if a phoenix tear can save Harry for one of the most powerful venoms - it should be able to tackle the necrotic hand.
But you could be right, might be like Arthur's wounds in OoTP took a lot to fix them up because they were magically infected.
We saw Fawkes once take an AK for Dumbledore - so not like it wasnt possible if Dumbledore so desired right ;)