Mouth organ question

[Piper]

I haven't been able to figure out what this means, and was hoping someone could explain:

Page 278 US Edition, Chapter 13 "The Secret Riddle"

"The Ring's gone, "Said Harry looking around. But I thought you might have the mouth organ or something"
Dumbledore beamed at him, peering over the top of his half-moon spectacles.
"Very astrute, Harry, but the mouth organ was only ever a mouth organ."

Did I miss some reference to a mouth organ?

[The Welsh Witch]

The mouth organ was one of the articles in the box that Tom hid in the wardrobe, the things he had taken from the other children, I think Harry expected there to be something in Dumbledore's office from the memory he had just seen because the ring had appeared after the previous one, Dumbledore's comment about it only ever being a mouth organ was I think a hint to Harry that the ring was an object of great importance.

[Alz]

You know I was listening to that chapter on the way home from work - and I am with you Piper ...

I cant figure this out - once again I could be dim witted or what - but ... :confused:
Is it the same one in Riddle's cupboard - and if so when did Dumbledore get it and why did he keep it?
Someone said in another thread they didnt think Dumbledore was also a 'collector' - I think this was a part I was looking at to suggest he might have been - plus all those tinkling instruments JKR always draws our attention to ...

Sorry - can't explain it here - looking for some help also :o

[The Welsh Witch]

Where does it say Dumbledore kept the mouth organ? The only references to it are in the memory of Tom at the orphanage where Dumbledore suggests that Tom gives the articles back to their rightful owners and later on at the end of the chapter when Harry mentions it and Dumbledore dismisses it as everyday object, what else is there to understand?

[Piper]

I just didn't remember the first reference to the mouth organ, and was perplexed by it, I read back, and missed it again I guess.

[The Welsh Witch]

You know I was listening to that chapter on the way home from work - and I am with you Piper ...

I cant figure this out - once again I could be dim witted or what - but ... :confused:
Is it the same one in Riddle's cupboard - and if so when did Dumbledore get it and why did he keep it?
Someone said in another thread they didnt think Dumbledore was also a 'collector' - I think this was a part I was looking at to suggest he might have been - plus all those tinkling instruments JKR always draws our attention to ...

Sorry - can't explain it here - looking for some help also :o


Sorry Piper it wasn't your question that confused me, I realised you had missed the initial reference to the mouth organ, it was Blaise thinking that Dumbldore had taken and kept the mouth organ, I can't find it anywhere in the book that he did this, as far as I know he told Tom to return the articles to their rightful owners.

[Boing]

Now that you bring that up, I was totally confused by that statement when I read it as well. I was so eager to get to the end that I just left it and thought it might be explained later, but I don't think it was. I remember the introduction of the mouth organ and that Dumbledore told Riddle to return the things to their rightful owners.

I guess the thing that I don't get is why Harry thinks the mouth organ would suddenly appear once the ring disappears . . . or is that not what the passage is saying?

[Fortescue]

I think that particular excerpt was used to show how Voldemort had grown. The mouth organ was nothing more than something Voldemort stole from another orphan; a trophy from what he surly thought was a great conquest for someone of his age and, at the time, magical ignorance. The ring was a family heirloom that held great historical significance. Riddle had enchanted the stolen items in the box as they were moving around, but basically they were unimportant.

The ring on the other hand was already a magically significant item. Harry looked at the items he'd seen in the Pensieve as possibly important, but JKR used the comparison of the mouth organ and the ring to show the difference Dumbledore perceived in what items Voldemort thought worthy to house his soul bits. In other words, the mouth organ was not important in the grand scheme of all things Voldemort.

[kashlie]

When I read it, I actually thought it meant Dumbeldore had retrieved the ring from in the memory. Call me stupid, but that is how I thought he got hold of it. Then when Harry said about the mouth organ, i thought the same thing - that DD had retrieved another Horcrux from one of his memories. I still don't know how he got the ring, and I can't check because my book is with my cousin.

[Alz]

OK - I re-read and got it :o
I was under the impression that where the ring once was - there was a mouth organ - that is what I was saying I was confused on.
It all makes sense - it was Dumbledore making the slightest hint about the importance of certain objects and not just all - namely the mouth organ was just a normal object and the ring was of course a Horcrux - something Harry finds out later on ... :rolleyes:
I feel like such a prat :o

[Fortescue]

And to clarify a bit on the objects in the box, Dumbledore made Riddle give those back to the orphans he stole them from, or so Dumbledore believes anyway. I think if there was ever a time in all of Dumbledore and Voldemort's history that he would actually listen to Dumbledore it was then. Riddle was probably afraid he wouldn't get the chance to go to Hogwarts to learn magic properly, and get out of the orphanage for most of the year. He probably figured Dumbledore would know if he didn't do what he was told so I'm sure he gave them all back, probably not with an apology, but he made sure the objects were returned to their owners.

[Norbert]

Sorry, this one seems to trail on a bit and maybe leads to two or three other threads but, once I started typing it, I just couldn't stop until I was completely done with my thoughts!

...Riddle had enchanted the stolen items in the box as they were moving around, but basically they were unimportant...

When I read that part, I had assumed that when Dumbledore set the wardrobe ablaze that it was some sort of rightfull ownership charm - Anything inside the wardrobe which didn't rightfully belong to Tom Riddle would identify itself via animation! I really think that it was Dumbledore making those things move not Riddle!

It is after Dumbledore shows Harry the memory with the ring very prominently in it, that Harry notices the ring "on display" while leaving. It is important to note that at that time Harry does not realise that the ring was a Horcrux...

Now Along with the mouth organ that Tom Riddle had stolen are a couple of other items (I can't remember what). Harry's quote reads '...the mouth organ or something.' - meaning (IMO) the mouth organ or one of the other stolen items by Tom Riddle. Upon leaving Dumbledores office (after veiwing the orphanage memory), when Harry sees that the ring is no longer on display, he tries to call up an oblect of parallel importance from the memory that Dumbledore has just shown him! He comes out with the items stolen by Tom Riddle - '...the mouth organ or something.' The thing that Dumbledore was trying to show Harry about Voldemort was his Tropy collecting habits. Still at this point in the story, Harry does not know anything about Horcruxes - He is trying to peice the valuable information from the memories together in order to draw conclusions.

Dumbledore (IMO) is greatly impressed by Harry's statement as it shows that Harry has recognized the parallels between what those objects Tom Riddle first stole from his fellow orphans and the ring represents (and later the Hufflepuff cup and Gryffindors sword). This is exactly what Dumbledore was hoping that Harry would collect from those memories.

But, one step further... should it lead any of us to reconsider what some of the remaining horcruxes are? They have only been guessed by Dumbledore and Harry so far, and Dumbledore (although very, very wise) has shown that even he has the ability to be incorrect about some things... Could the mouth organ be a Horcrux?

When Dumbledore says that the mouth organ was only ever a mouth organ, I think somehow, that Dumbledore has looked into it and ruled it out already. His statement seems confusing at the time because Harry (and us readers) aren't learned yet that the ring was ever more than a ring (a horcrux)!

I would like to surmise that Harry's comment regarding the mouth organ (placing its representative relavence equal to that of the ring, a known Horcrux) makes Dumbledore think a little more about the importance of Tom Riddles days at the orphanage to Tom Riddle! This may have taken Dumbledore along the path to hypothesize that the cave, where Tom Riddle tormented fellow orphans (and possibly where Tom performed the act of steeling the mouth orgran), was a hiding location for a Horcrux!!! It is never revealed to us how Dumbledore had even arrived at this possible conclusion. I think Harry's comment about the mouth organ started that train of thought...

Next Question: It was one thing for Dumbledore to guess at this location as a Horcrux hiding spot but, How on earth did R.A.B. figure it out? That, my friends, belongs to another thread. ;)

[Alz]

:D Nice :D

You know what - I still believe JKR wrote the whole (to also paraphrase or however you spell it!) Harry I could be wrong at some point, I may have always come across as right but there is a chance i could be wrong - disclaimer.
I think very strongly that a major detail Dumbledore passed as not being important will actually work out to be important - perhaps you have identified it.
As Wheezy is so clear at pointing out - JKR uses Dumbledore and Hermione to make points in the books - as such when she resorts to having Dumbledore make a 'I could be wrong' statement - I think she is saying something he concludes it wrong ...

Phew - did that make any sense?
Nice post BTW :D