View Full Version : Will Voldemort know?
We learnt in HBP that Voldemort shouldnt be able to detect when a Horcrux is destroyed ...
Question is - when the final Horcrux is destroyed and he is returned to mortal life - will he actually feel that he is mortal again?
I could see this leading to his downfall - if he is unaware that Harry has destroyed all his Horcruxes - that he might try a suicidal attack on Harry based on the comfort that he has a Horcrux someone that will save him ...
Thoughts?
Sirius Potter Fan
18-08-2005, 14:10
I like this! I know that Voldemort won't be toying with Harry when push comes to shove this time. That would fit so perfectly to what most of us want to see, Harry not having to be a killer, but being victorious nonetheless. Voldemort in desperation plans a suicide attack to destroy his nemesis believing that he will just again be ripped from his body, and need to get a new one, but it just doesn't work because the Horcruxes no longer exist ;) I would just hope that it wouldn't be too quick. I would want to see Voldemort realize that he was dying, and had really flubbed up!
Dumbledore based his theory that Voldermort doesn't know on Snape telling him about how mad Voldermort got when he fould out that in his absence, Lucius had managed to get the Diary destroyed. We assume, since Snape is the spy within the Death Eaters that we are told of.
This seemed to me like something that Snape witnessed himself, not like Voldermort was telling him, "Man I am sooo angry that Lucius got my diary destroyed". Like it was totally unexpected to Voldermort, and Snape witnessed his first reaction to the news, so I really think he does not feel it. And it would be a great way to finish Voldermort off, having him arrogantly think he can spare one more piece of soul to finish Harry off, and die in the process, SUCH Poetic Justice really.
yarvelling
18-08-2005, 15:00
Surely though, you'd imagine that if a piece of your soul was being destroyed then you'd feel it....maybe a peculiar distant tearing and then a sharp pain, or something like...
Unless of course, this could add a little more weight to your theory Blaise about 'used vs exist'....
I would think that if the piece of soul is existing to help keep you alive at a moment of death, then there would be some kind of magical, and maybe, mental bond, thus, you would feel the passing of that piece. However, if the piece of soul was stashed away for a rainy day, to only be used incase of emergency, and was now a seperate and remote item...rather like some form of medicine that needed to be taken/administered upon death, then there would not be any link to the host,and so the destruction would not be felt....
Hmmmm....interesting.....you now get me questioning my earlier ideas about the soul existing a kind of 'battery'...
Where does it say in HBP that Voldemort would not be aware of a Horcrux being destroyed? I don't recall that passage, but this could be 'key' to your initial argument, and also crucial to how Harry should proceed in the next installment!!
The Frozen North
19-08-2005, 07:40
Can't see it myself, nice thought but Voldermort's decription of his first "death" implied that he did not like it at all and he then waited 13 years to be "resurected". Don't think he'd be willing to risk it happening again (and maybe no one would resurect this time, we still don't know that he has told anyone else about the Hhorcruxes). Maybe how Enid Blighton would write it to keep the hero beyond reproach but I think JKR is more into reflecting some of lifes real and difficult choices that some people are put through. Harry Potter is not just a world of fantacy but is also an essay on life. Think about the writings of Tolkien and Lewis and how thay have been looked at years after their initial impact. I have a feeling that the same may aply to JKR in years to come.
I think looking at the question in a more broader sense - you have to question if he really would know that all his Horcruxes were destroyed though ...
I think he went to the Potter's to face Harry knowing he had the Horcruxes under his belt - as such he may not have been willing and certainly wasn't prepared at what happened - and there is no doubts that being ripped from his body hurt ... but he kinda knew no matter he would live in some way or another because of the Horcruxes, a little bit of surprise weaponry in the arsenal ...
In fact - looking at the pain of being ripped from his body - I don't think Voldemort ever thought what would happen if he died - he created the Horcruxes to prevent this - as such when he was all bit killed - not even he could have prepared for the pain - and of course does nothing to quell his fear of death there - if anything strengthen his resolve ...
Question on the table was simple - will he know he is mortal again - he cant feel a Horcrux be destroyed - but will he feel anything the moment he becomes mortal again?
Fortescue
19-08-2005, 13:37
We learnt in HBP that Voldemort shouldnt be able to detect when a Horcrux is destroyed ...
Question is - when the final Horcrux is destroyed and he is returned to mortal life - will he actually feel that he is mortal again?
I could see this leading to his downfall - if he is unaware that Harry has destroyed all his Horcruxes - that he might try a suicidal attack on Harry based on the comfort that he has a Horcrux someone that will save him ...
Thoughts?
If we look at what he said to his Death Eaters in GoF, when he said he was willing to be mortal again when he got his body back in order to again chase immortality, and that he would settle for his old powers, I'd think he'd have to feel something when the last Horcrux was destroyed.
When he is down to the last one, the one inside him, it would seem that he would feel less powerful. Maybe his Horcruxes give him a real sense of power that will leave him when the last one is destroyed, and he will realize it's only him and his last damaged soul bit against Harry and whoever else stands against him in the final battle.
You know this could be a little 'exist' weight and maybe a bit speculative - but I wondered if pehaps splitting is soul made him more unstable mentally - but while they exist he is semi-normal compared to when they are all destroyed - it would be like he looses his mind?
Each time one departs - he takes another step closer to insanity but not to the point he would realise - it would be others around him and as we know he isnt into friends all that much.
I'm just speculating that as the final one is taken out - his mental state will change from arrogance on his eternal life to blind paranoia .. and then he might work out he has lost his horcruxes ...
Just a thought :p
If Nagini is indeed one of the Horcruxes, does it show Voldy is a bit more connected than Dumbledore was suggesting? Afterall, he was able to control the snake, or at least see what it was seeing.
On the other hand...
RAB obviously didn't think Voldy would know since he left a note to make sure Voldy knew it had been taken and destroyed. I am not saying it WAS destroyed just that it doesn't make sense RAB would say he was going to destroy it if he thought Big V would feel it die.
Ok, I am rethining my position on whether or not Voldermort 'knows' if a horcrux has been destroyed.
Beacuse as bajab just pointed out, maybe RAB didn't get around to destroying that horcrux in the locket.
That got me to thinking that it's a Dumbledore assumption that he can't feel it based on his reaction to the diary having left Malfoy's posession and been destroyed in his absence.
Maybe he didn't feel THAT Horcrux because he didn't have a body at the time. Maybe he didn't feel the Cave locket one because it wasn't destroyed, just taken,
and Maybe he DID feel the ring one, and made plans to get Dumbledore killed.
Interesting - I like it :D
You know, it was never said RAB actually got around to destroying it right - as such it could still be a Horcrux.
We can only assume that indeed RAB is dead and we can only assume that he may have died straight after getting the Horcrux - but did he destroy it straight away?
It seemed like Dumbledore didnt destroy the horcrux he found right away - it is possible RAB might have died before he could destroy the Horcux - makes me think of the jumper again :p
Sirius Potter Fan
20-08-2005, 10:20
The key on this, is the timeline of when things happened in that two weeks. Dumbledore found the ring, destroyed it, nearly lost his arm completely, Snape had the meeting with Narcissa and Belatrix, and now at "feeling" his horcrux destroyed he asks a boy to take care of Dumbledore for him?. . . I just can't stick with that. Starters, even if he could "feel" it, how would he have known it was Dumbledore that did it? So, I follow Narcissa in believing that asking Draco to do what Voldemort himself had been unable to do was indded expecting him to fail and repay Lucious. If Voldemort wanted Dumbledore gone that badly he would have put the job to someone else. Also, I think that if he had "felt" one of his Horcruxes were destroyed he would have had a fit of the like that I am shure he would have forgotten the occlumency and harry would have had one splitting scar-ache.
The last point is interesting because I often thought about that as well ..
If Voldemort suddenly found out a Horcrux or indeed all Horcruxes were gone - could he compose himself enough to supress the anger and fear that Harry could feel his anger via the scar?
I mean Voldemort knows Harry can link to him via the scar and so puts up protection to stop Harry seeing into him anymore - but that must require composure on his behalf ...
It is almost a digression - but still valid I suppose :)
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