Harry's Huge Oversight!

[Fortescue]

Sectumsempra - HBP, pg 525-27 US

He skidded to a halt beside the tapestry of dancing trolls, closed his eyes, and began to walk.

I need a place to hide my book . . . I need a place to hide my book…. I need a place to hide my book ….

Three times he walked up and down in front of the stretch of blank wall. When he opened his eyes, there it was at last: the door to the Room of Requirements. Harry wrenched it open, flung himself inside, and slammed it shut.

He gasped. Despite his haste, his panic, his fear of what awaited him back in the bathroom, he could not help but be overawed by what he was looking at. He was standing in a room the size of a large cathedral, whose high windows were sending shafts of light down upon what looked like a city with towering walls, built of what Harry knew must be objects hidden by generations of Hogwarts inhabitants. There were alleyways and roads bordered by teetering piles of broken and damaged furniture, stowed away, perhaps, to hide the evidence of mishandled magic, or else hidden by castle-proud house-elves. There were thousands and thousands of books, no doubt banned or graffitied or stolen. There were winged catapults and Fanged Frisbees, some still with enough life in them to hover halfheartedly over the mountains of other forbidden items; there were chipped bottles of congealed potions, hats, jewels, cloaks; there were what looked like dragon eggshells, corked bottles whose contents still shimmered evilly, several rusting swords, and a heavy, bloodstained axe.

Harry hurried forward into one of the many alleyways between all the hidden treasure. He turned right past an enormous stuffed troll, ran on a short way, took a left at the broken Vanishing Cabinet in which Montague had got lost the previous year, finally pausing beside a large cupboard that seemed to have had acid thrown at its blistered surface. He opened one of the cupboard's creaking doors: It had already been used as a hiding place for something in a cage that had long since died; its skeleton had five legs. He stuffed the Half-Blood Prince's book behind the cage and slammed the door.


Harry had tried before to get into the Room of Requirements to see what Malfoy was up to, but couldn't by simply wishing to know what Malfoy was doing in there, but Harry unknowingly had entered Malfoys particular Room of Requirements by trying to find a place to hide the Half-Blood Prince's potions book. The Vanishing Cabinet was there, and of course, Malfoy was in the Hospital Wing after Harry had tried the Prince's curse on him, so he was not there working on the cabinet.

Harry was doing something deceitful and found the room Malfoy was using. Harry even realized the room he had entered was a place to hide things others were not to see by his thought about the hidden, dead animal, with five legs in the cage.

With all the suspicions Harry had during the year about Malfoy being a Death Eater, and wanting to know what Malfoy was doing in the Room of Requirements, was Harry being really stupid by not realizing he was in Malfoy's particular room?

Any thoughts?

[bajab]

Considering how extrodinary it was that he found a room that had been used before, and often, it was definately an oversight to not spend more time thinking about what he had seen. I know I would have been desperate to get back to that room just find out what else was hidden in there (even with the Ginny distraction). Ron should have been a lot more interested in that particular room too. Bit out of character for both of them I'd say.

[Boing]

I don't think it was such a huge oversight on his part to not realize it was Malfoy's room. I think he probably saw it much like the reader (or at least me) as a place where people hid things that were illegal in the school or experiments that had gone horribly wrong. If I were him I would have thought of it more along the lines of just old and rundown school items and things that kids had hidden (like Harry did). But I don't think I would have associated it with Malfoy as it seemed more of a dropoff location as opposed to the "workroom" that Harry thought he was looking for.

[The Welsh Witch]

Could be that Harry was so shocked at what he'd done and fear of what Snape might do to him that Malfoy - in this context at least - was the last thing on his mind, add to that the time issue and I don't think he could have done anything other than he did, at that point, however, I'm suprised that he never went back later to check out the room more thoroughly.

[Piper]

I thought about this while Harry was trying to get into the room thinking, "I need to see what Malfoy is doing", but I was thinking that maybe if Harry thought up a need for the room, he wouldn't have been put in with Malfoy, but we know that isn't right, because Professor Threlawny was allowed into the room, it was just that she was thrown out, so isn't it most likely that Harry would have been thrown out too? Except that maybe he could have atleast seen that Malfoy was working on the cabinet though.
It is a big oversight on his part, just like the thing with the mirrors in OOtP, he could have just contacted Sirius with the mirrors, and didn't.

And that is the way it is in real life sometimes, you miss something obivous. So maybe that is what JKR was going for here, to make Harry someone people can relate to.

[halliemei]

What I find most interesting about this situation is the contrast with the DA meetings from the previous year. Harry spent the entire year looking for where Malfoy was doing what he was doing (and variations on that theme). It does make sense that tons of students over history had used the "I need somewhere to hide something" requirement, so I find it funny that it never occurred to Harry that the room wouldn't have lots of stuff . . . but maybe he thought it provided each time by itself. (Man, I'm talking in circles :confused: ).

I know we have a lot of fans who assume that Marietta told Umbridge how to get the list of DA members, but we don't know that. So, how would they know how to get the DA list?

Why didn't Harry think at any point in the year that Draco might have just said "I need a place to hide"? That's sorta what Harry said to get the DA meeting place. Wow, did I just stumble into something???? Time to read again.

[Alz]

I think if anything should have got him thinking - it would have been the broken cabinet that was now in there ...
And this I think is the point - he really wasn't thinking properly - he just needed to hide that book and get back. I think that if he actually stopped at some point - or even re-told the effort to Ron or Hermione he would mention the broken cabinet and one of them would have picked up on it ... but seems it was an oversight - although not fully realised or intentional.
I think the situation ensured he wasnt as 'switched on' as he usually was.

[Fortescue]

A little Vanishing Cabinet History: If you remember, that was the cabinet that Peeves smashed in CoS at Nearly Headless Nick's request in order to get Filch's mind off of the mud Harry had tracked into the castle and on to Filch's biggest nemesis: Peeves. Peeves had lifted the cabinet up into the air and let it crash to the ground.

Then we saw its use again in OotP when Fred and George put Montegue in it and he ended up in the toilet. Where was the cabinet before Malfoy got his hands on it. It obviously wasn't broken when Fred and George stuck Montegue in there. I think it was the cabinet in Borgin and Burkes that was the broken one because Malfoy said Montegue could hear what was going on in the shop, but couldn't get out of the cabinet and had to Apparate and ended up in the toilet.

So one more thing that Harry should have noticed as odd would be the cabinet in the room of items he immediately realized were hidden things. Some things in there might have been junk, but he realized through the banned books and other shady items that some things in there were there so no one else would find them - that included the Vanishing Cabinet that had worked just fine for Fred and George the previous year.

[Sirius Potter Fan]

This was difinately a big oversight for harry. . . excusable, but nonetheless substantial. Hindsight. . . Oh well. . .The other things in there mentioned though. . . curious at what all JKR mentions. . . a bloody axe? corked bottles whose contents still shimmered evilly. . . (sounds like a memory maybe?) I admit, I'm surprised that Harry even in his haste and desperation didn't take a little more note of the contents here. Can't help but wonder if these things may come into play later?

[halliemei]

Sirius, I have much the same thought. I believe that the axe thing is probably TOO obvious and is there to distract us from something more mundane. I do wonder about those vials that were shimmering. Could they be memories? Someone wanted them gone so much that they took them out and hid them? I guess that brings to mind what happens when you take a memory out. . . but that would be offtopic.

[Alz]

A little Vanishing Cabinet History: If you remember, that was the cabinet that Peeves smashed in CoS at Nearly Headless Nick's request in order to get Filch's mind off of the mud Harry had tracked into the castle and on to Filch's biggest nemesis: Peeves. Peeves had lifted the cabinet up into the air and let it crash to the ground.

Then we saw its use again in OotP when Fred and George put Montegue in it and he ended up in the toilet. Where was the cabinet before Malfoy got his hands on it. It obviously wasn't broken when Fred and George stuck Montegue in there. I think it was the cabinet in Borgin and Burkes that was the broken one because Malfoy said Montegue could hear what was going on in the shop, but couldn't get out of the cabinet and had to Apparate and ended up in the toilet.

So one more thing that Harry should have noticed as odd would be the cabinet in the room of items he immediately realized were hidden things. Some things in there might have been junk, but he realized through the banned books and other shady items that some things in there were there so no one else would find them - that included the Vanishing Cabinet that had worked just fine for Fred and George the previous year.
I dont agree - the cabinet at Hogwarts was the broken one.
At B&B's - Malfoy was given the option to carry away the 'object' but he said that he would have looked stupid walking down the street with it.
Also - how would the broken one got out of Hogwarts and the working one placed in Hogwarts?
The working one was in B&B's and was to be looked after until such time as Malfoy needed it - he was in Hogwarts repairing the broken one ...
Think about it - why would he have had to use the room so much?

[Boing]

So one more thing that Harry should have noticed as odd would be the cabinet in the room of items he immediately realized were hidden things. Some things in there might have been junk, but he realized through the banned books and other shady items that some things in there were there so no one else would find them - that included the Vanishing Cabinet that had worked just fine for Fred and George the previous year.

I thought it was in there because Fred and George had used it the previous year - that the room was somewhat of a depository for broken, misplaced, confiscated items. It might not be that all the items were placed there by students, but rather that the headmaster or someone else might have used the room to put things that they had taken away from students.

Because Fred and George had used it in a way that was not entirely wholesome, it had been confiscated and put in there so no one else might misuse it . . . that was my take on it.

Just saw Blaise's post and that goes in with what I was saying - that it might have been a depository for broken or misused/confiscated items. If the vanishing cabinet was broken, then it might have been placed there.

[Alz]

Evidence that the one at B&B's was the broken one ...

"Why dont you bring it into the shop?"
"I cant," said Malfoy. "it's got to stay put. I need you to tell me how to do it"

[Fortescue]

I dont agree - the cabinet at Hogwarts was the broken one.
At B&B's - Malfoy was given the option to carry away the 'object' but he said that he would have looked stupid walking down the street with it.
Also - how would the broken one got out of Hogwarts and the working one placed in Hogwarts?
The working one was in B&B's and was to be looked after until such time as Malfoy needed it - he was in Hogwarts repairing the broken one ...
Think about it - why would he have had to use the room so much?

I think what he said he'd look stupid carrying down the street was the Hand of Glory. It's sort of big to wrap and an obvious dark object. I don't think he meant the vanishing cabinet! :rolleyes:



I thought it was in there because Fred and George had used it the previous year - that the room was somewhat of a depository for broken, misplaced, confiscated items. It might not be that all the items were placed there by students, but rather that the headmaster or someone else might have used the room to put things that they had taken away from students.

Because Fred and George had used it in a way that was not entirely wholesome, it had been confiscated and put in there so no one else might misuse it . . . that was my take on it.

But if I remember correctly, no one told what happened to Montague. He was in the hospital for a long time. Hermione wanted to tell Madam Pomfrey what had happened to him, but Harry and Ron said no, and Montague couldn't remember what happened to him still at the end of term when Hermione watched his parents walking up to Hogwarts from the gates. It was guite funny that no one knew how he ended up in the toilet. Obviously, he got his memory back though in order to give the information to Malfoy.

[The Welsh Witch]

The broken cabinet had to be the one at Hogwart's, why else would Malfoy be asking advice on how to fix it? If it had been the one at B&B's he would have asked for it to be fixed there....... By them.

I don't understand why harry didn't just say something like 'I need somewhere to fix something,' Dobby had already told him that the room comes equipped for the seeker's needs, after all when he wanted a room for the DA he said ' I need somewhere where they can't find us, somewhere to practise.'

Did Malfoy take the cabinet to that particular room? If Trelawney had summoned the room to hide something then surely it follows that Malfoy must have done the same thing to end up in the same room, if he didn't take it there how did he know where to find it?

[amyleigh13]

ok this may sound stupid, but its a thought . its a room of requirment and its able to fill its self with things u need , ( heres the stupid part ) couldnt harry once he gets inside think i need something that will help him defeat voldemort, when he was having the DA meetings their he needed a whistle and it appeared, couldnt he do something like that,
of course if it happened that way it would be let down in the end of the series but i think maybe the room could help him in that way, just sort of give him an object that gives him a push in the right direction ,even if its a map or something thats shows him where the others founders of hogwarts, artifacts might be

[Fortescue]

I will stay off topic for a moment and say that I think what might help Harry defeat Voldemort is already in that Room of Requirements, Malfoy's room, and Harry's "I need to find a place to hide my book" room. Think about the banned books Harry noted and the fact that Dumbledore wouldn't even allow a book in the library that had any information of Horcruxes - not even in the restricted section according to Hermione. Where would those books be - either in the Room of Requirements or the Chamber of Secrets. Either way, Harry has access to the books with the information he might need to destroy Voldemort. Possibly, one of the books has a way to destroy all soul bits at once, or information on how to find the Horcruxes easier with a spell or something. (Sorry, I went way off topic there :o )

I know Harry was in a stressful situation at the time he entered the Room of Requirements, it just seemed odd that he didn't take better note of what was actually in the room. After all, he spent the entire year trying to convince everyone from Ron, Hermione, and Dumbledore, to Lupin and Mr. Weasley that Malfoy was up to something underhanded - and not one of them sided with him - then he walks smack into the room filled with all the evidence he'd need to prove he was right, and he let it slip by. Just seems odd.

Another thing that might be off topic just a bit :rolleyes: is what the room actually was: it wasn't a room at all, but a city with streets and alleys. Was it a real city? This fact might be fodder for another thread! :p

[Alz]

I just think Harry didnt take in what he was seeing - he was desperate and needed to hide the book - he was more concerned on hiding the book than taking in the wierd room he was in ..
I do wonder that afterwards - when it all calmed down - why he never slightly reflected on the room ...
Did he go back to retrieve the book or is it still nested in that room?
Sorry - cant remeber off hand :o

[Fortescue]

I don't think we were shown that he went back after the book. After everything that happened rather quickly, I think the book was basically forgotten. It would be a good excuse for him to go back in there though and realize all the obvious stuff he missed the first time, especially if he saw the Vanishing Cabinet and realized that was the reason the Death Eaters entered Hogwarts.

I wonder what will happen to the owners of Borgin and Burkes when the Ministry finds out they were the ones that allowed the Death Eaters access the the cabinet in their shop??

[Alz]

I suppose on an off-note the 'gateway' those cabinets offered would surely be closed now right?
I mean - they know how the DE's were able to get in now - I would assume that they closed that off as soon as they could.
I also wondered why Draco and co didn't leave Hogwarts the same way - might have been slightly easier given all the furore that was breaking out around everyone ..

[Fortescue]

The only person who was witness to Draco's disclosure of how he smuggled the Death Eaters into the castle was Harry. I don't recall if he told anyone about it - (I'd have to go back and read that part again,) but I'm sure if he did tell, the cabinet was probably immediately destroyed. I'm sure the castle will be gone over completely for any other similar weaknesses. At least Harry knows how to get into Draco's Room of Requirements so he could get in there to the cabinet. Even though we didn't see it, I'm sure he would take his wrath out upon the cabinet after what part it had in Dumbledore's death and assure the Death Eaters couldn't use it again.

[Piper]

In the first book, when Harry finds the mirror of the erised, he was in the room of requirement, and Dumbledore was in there also, watching him. He went alone, returned with Ron the next night, and the third night, when he went, Dumbledore was there, and he said that he did not need an invisibility cloak to be invisible. That was when he told Harry the mirror was going to be moved.

So Dumbledore could have been watching Malfoy in that room also. Invisible.

I'm pretty sure it was the room of requirement, because Harry was running from Filch and Snape and needing a place to hide.

I am wondering if the room of requirement is something you can lie to gain entry to, or if you really have to have a need to get in there.

[Fortescue]

In the first book, when Harry finds the mirror of the erised, he was in the room of requirement, and Dumbledore was in there also, watching him. He went alone, returned with Ron the next night, and the third night, when he went, Dumbledore was there, and he said that he did not need an invisibility cloak to be invisible. That was when he told Harry the mirror was going to be moved.

So Dumbledore could have been watching Malfoy in that room also. Invisible.

I'm pretty sure it was the room of requirement, because Harry was running from Filch and Snape and needing a place to hide.

I am wondering if the room of requirement is something you can lie to gain entry to, or if you really have to have a need to get in there.

That wasn't the Room of Requirements. The room with the mirror was on the main floor not far from the library, the Room of Requirements is on the seventh floor. That was just an old class room that wasn't in use anymore.

I don't know if Dumbledore could get into Draco's room any better than Harry could when he tried the first time to see what Malfoy was up to. He didn't get into the room until he had something to hide, the same as Malfoy. If Dumbledore had been able to get into the room he would have made note of what was in there, and possibly the Vanishing Cabinet would have made him realize what was going on, that is if he knew there was another cabinet somewhere.


Sectumsempra - HBP, pg 525-27 US

He skidded to a halt beside the tapestry of dancing trolls, closed his eyes, and began to walk.

I need a place to hide my book . . . I need a place to hide my book…. I need a place to hide my book ….

Three times he walked up and down in front of the stretch of blank wall. When he opened his eyes, there it was at last: the door to the Room of Requirements. Harry wrenched it open, flung himself inside, and slammed it shut.

He gasped. Despite his haste, his panic, his fear of what awaited him back in the bathroom, he could not help but be overawed by what he was looking at. He was standing in a room the size of a large cathedral, whose high windows were sending shafts of light down upon what looked like a city with towering walls, built of what Harry knew must be objects hidden by generations of Hogwarts inhabitants. There were alleyways and roads bordered by teetering piles of broken and damaged furniture, stowed away, perhaps, to hide the evidence of mishandled magic, or else hidden by castle-proud house-elves. There were thousands and thousands of books, no doubt banned or graffitied or stolen. There were winged catapults and Fanged Frisbees, some still with enough life in them to hover halfheartedly over the mountains of other forbidden items; there were chipped bottles of congealed potions, hats, jewels, cloaks; there were what looked like dragon eggshells, corked bottles whose contents still shimmered evilly, several rusting swords, and a heavy, bloodstained axe.

Harry hurried forward into one of the many alleyways between all the hidden treasure. He turned right past an enormous stuffed troll, ran on a short way, took a left at the broken Vanishing Cabinet in which Montague had got lost the previous year, finally pausing beside a large cupboard that seemed to have had acid thrown at its blistered surface. He opened one of the cupboard's creaking doors: It had already been used as a hiding place for something in a cage that had long since died; its skeleton had five legs. He stuffed the Half-Blood Prince's book behind the cage and slammed the door.



I guess the thing that makes me wonder why he didn't think harder about what he was seeing, and the fact that the room might answer some of his questions was this bit of the above quote:

He gasped. Despite his haste, his panic, his fear of what awaited him back in the bathroom, he could not help but be overawed by what he was looking at.

He was not in so much of a hurry to hide the book that he didn't notice the odd object in there - I mean, swords, bloody axes, catapults - all the things he saw were evil and/or harmful. There was even a Fanged Frizbee that he noted still had enough magic in it to fly around a bit. Even though a lot of the stuff looked old and unused for ages, I'd think that the fact the Fanged Frizbee that still worked, and the Vanishing Cabinet that was only used by Fred and George the year before was in the room, I'd think all of that would stick in Harry's mind, especially after what happened to Dumbledore - Harry would have to go back in there.

Harry obviously isn't the only one who knows how to get in into that particular Room of Requirements if the house-elfs are storing broken furniture there, and Filch is storing banned, confiscated stuff in there like the Fanged Frizbee.

[Piper]

Plus Professor Trelawny had obivously put empty bottles in there before, but I figured the fangled frizbees were there from students running and hiding from Flich.


Harry did tell Professor McGonnagal how Malfoy got the Death Eaters in though. I think when all of the heads of house were there, just before the Minister came.