Voldemort allowed to live

[Sirius Potter Fan]

I thought of this possibility while reading on another thread. Just thought I would toss it up for some speculation, and. . . feel free to play devil's advocate if you wish ;)

It has been speculated from time to time whether Harry will actualy "kill" Voldemort, or destroy his reign in some other way. That itself is not for discussion here, but consider the following. . . Harry does not kill Voldemort, but in some manner, not particularly important, Harry manages to incompacitate Voldemort so that he is powerless. Would the Ministry of Magic allow Voldemort to live, powerless in Azkaban?

[kashlie]

that is a very interesting idea!!

like perhaps Harry's special power is the ability to bind another's magical powers...ooh thread idea....

back on track, i don't think he should be allowed to live - he is so obviously guilty of the most terrible, awful crimes and murders...i don't think, unless Harry wants to use one of the oldest forms of magic, that he'd be allowed to live.

imagine that. Voldemort owing Harry a life debt.

[Piper]

Would the Ministry of Magic allow Voldemort to live, powerless in Azkaban?

Gosh I really don't think so. They have had to deal with so many escapes, and Voldermort is a pretty slippery fellow, he knew how to bring his body back using blood from an enemy, his fathers bone and Wormtail's hand, even powerless he would worry too many, because he might somehow share his knowledge with an up and coming evil person.

[mwollert]

I have the feeling that Voldemorts actions will cause his own demise. Possibly he will finish what he started (so to speak) when he first tried to kill Harry, and doing so will kill himself. However I think this time he will act against an even greater power because not only will Harrys mothers love protect him, but Dumbledores will as well. Just a thought.

[The Frozen North]

not only will Harrys mothers love protect him, but Dumbledores will as well.


Sorry, have to disagree on this one!! DD did save Harry's life (possibly) and in doing so sacrifice his own but on this occasion Harry was not the target and indeed could have been killed several times by DEs when he pursued them. DD did not CHOOSE to die and thus sacrifice himself for Harry, despite his apparent protection (we're still not all convinced he was protecting Harry, maybe wanted him to witness something) of Harry leading to his own incapacitation and ultimately his death.

[Alz]

Sorry, have to disagree on this one!! DD did save Harry's life (possibly) and in doing so sacrifice his own but on this occasion Harry was not the target and indeed could have been killed several times by DEs when he pursued them. DD did not CHOOSE to die and thus sacrifice himself for Harry, despite his apparent protection (we're still not all convinced he was protecting Harry, maybe wanted him to witness something) of Harry leading to his own incapacitation and ultimately his death.
I think if Dumbledore made a life sacrifice, it would have been to protect Snape .. given the scenario and the way it played out ...

I remember a post from another thread where it was said that when Dumbledore 'defeated' Grindelwald - he might not have killed him but maybe took away his magical powers ...
Now think on that for a second with Voldemort - to be reduced to a mere squib or indeed a plain old muggle.
Imagine what it would do to the man - a person that was mortal , incapable of doing magic and a half blood ... I think that would be enough to make Voldemort want to end his own life.
I wonder if his fate is to be reduced to a mortal and have his magical powers stripped away so he is left nothing more than a squib - I don't think he would stay around in that state - I think it would be enough to push that last piece of tortured soul to destruction ...

[Hermione]

I remember a post from another thread where it was said that when Dumbledore 'defeated' Grindelwald - he might not have killed him but maybe took away his magical powers ...
Now think on that for a second with Voldemort - to be reduced to a mere squib or indeed a plain old muggle.
Imagine what it would do to the man - a person that was mortal , incapable of doing magic and a half blood ... I think that would be enough to make Voldemort want to end his own life.I wonder if his fate is to be reduced to a mortal and have his magical powers stripped away so he is left nothing more than a squib - I don't think he would stay around in that state - I think it would be enough to push that last piece of tortured soul to destruction ...

That is an excellent theory for Voldemort's demise, he will commit suicide upon being stripped of his magical powers. I think it is very plausable, except for Voldemort's fear of death. Even if his life was unliveable, would he face his phobia?


Voldemort so that he is powerless. Would the Ministry of Magic allow Voldemort to live, powerless in Azkaban?

No, I don't think so. I think everyone has suffered too much for too long for there not to be deaths. Now, with two risings of Voldemort, there is no longer tha age gap, the younger generations know the harsh relaties of living with the Dark Lord as well and I hypothisize they will also clamour for his death.

Because of this public opinion, I don't think anyone would want to take sides with Voldemort. They will remember what happened to Fudge. Perhaps there will be another Barty Crouch-esque court inside the MoM, not caring who they have found guilty or why they are sentenced but that they have a body to fill a cell. I don't think any officals would want to get mixed up in that sort of political cyclone.

As a nasty after thought, even if the MoM decided to keep the death eaters and Voldemort alive in Azkaban, it doesn't mean they wouldn't die at the hands of the people. Remember in the French Revolution when they stormed the Bastille?

[Alz]

No, I don't think so. I think everyone has suffered too much for too long for there not to be deaths. Now, with two risings of Voldemort, there is no longer tha age gap, the younger generations know the harsh relaties of living with the Dark Lord as well and I hypothisize they will also clamour for his death.

OK - I did expect this somewhat to come up ...
Dumbledore says on a few occasions that Voldemort's biggest weakness is that he doesn't realise there are things worse than death - I think when Voldemort is shown - he will finally see what Dumbledore meant ...
Think about it in that context - most of what Voldemort fears he has done all he could to protect - Dumbledore hypothesises that Voldemort's insistence to grab onto life by any means possible in fact makes him weak and indeed ignorant to other things ... the theme de jour seems to emphasis I wonder how Voldemort would react when he is actually shown or made to feel like others do - that angel and devil in the shoulder rather than just the devil - in essence to feel the consequences of his actions and to feel them ...
By being ordinary - and in fact much less - a forced muggle/squib then making him actually feel emotions and the subsequent feelings they incur - I think he will quickly see there are worse things than dying - living with feelings and no way to control them, not understanding them and how to react to them, to suddenly after 60 odd years of no feelings to have compassion, guilt, remorse and all those other feelings ... I think death would be a welcome break from the insanity it would cause him!

[The Frozen North]

No, I don't think so. I think everyone has suffered too much for too long for there not to be deaths. Now, with two risings of Voldemort, there is no longer tha age gap, the younger generations know the harsh relaties of living with the Dark Lord as well and I hypothisize they will also clamour for his death.



Remember that JKR's stories are very morale stories and take into account that she is British. I don't know her personal views but capital punishement is not supported or touted in the UK in the same way as in the States. Previous wizards and witches on the dark side only appear to have been killed during the event of their capture. I don't recall any cases of judicial execution being mentioned. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Alz]

TFN makes a valid point there - although not all of US have the death penalty - a few states do - this suggests a certain amount of apathy to the process.
In the UK the death penalty was stopped back in the 50's I think.
I have always said that if Harry kills Voldemort - it makes him kind of the same - although he has all the justification in the world, I just feel it isn't the right message to set.
We do have a thread on this I believe ..
I know that Voldemort has to be removed for the better of Wizarding kind - but I feel that Harry will drive Voldemort to his death - but not complete it, Voldemort will do that himself.

[Sirius Potter Fan]

but I feel that Harry will drive Voldemort to his death - but not complete it, Voldemort will do that himself.

OK Blaise, let's clarify this here. You think that Voldemort will "do that himself"? when we are talking about someone that fears Death more than everything? or are you saying that he will be put in a state of mind that he will make a fatal mistake bringing about his death?

And on the "death Penalty" Isn't the dementors kiss a death penalty, Sirius almost got it, was supposed to at any rate, Barty JR got it, can't remember if anyone else has been mentioned getting it, but in any case, I don't think that the dementors would do it on Voldemort would they?

[Alz]

I think Voldemort can be put into a state where death would be more welcome than living ..
As I said before - Dumbledore said there are some things worse than death - and Voldemort doesn't see them - if he was made to see them - then he will see the logic from Dumbledore and opt for death rather than whatever he was currently at ...
Still think he will be made to feel love and all those feelings that surround it - will drive the guy crazy!

The Dementor thing - it isn't actually said if the body dies straight away - ergo not a strict death sentence to me - more a nasty torture!

[Piper]

I got the feeling that a body was left there breathing and all with Barth Crouch, because Professor McGonnagal said that she watched it suck his soul out, but then they said, "He's not of any use to anyone now", and Harry thought it was worse than death. In GoF.

[Alz]

I suppose this is a little off-topic but it has never been fully explained what happens to the bodies post Kiss ... I think we do have a thread on this as well somewhere :o

It is all kinda a digression from thread topic - sorry all :o
I thought of this possibility while reading on another thread. Just thought I would toss it up for some speculation, and. . . feel free to play devil's advocate if you wish ;)

It has been speculated from time to time whether Harry will actualy "kill" Voldemort, or destroy his reign in some other way. That itself is not for discussion here, but consider the following. . . Harry does not kill Voldemort, but in some manner, not particularly important, Harry manages to incompacitate Voldemort so that he is powerless. Would the Ministry of Magic allow Voldemort to live, powerless in Azkaban?

[Ana C.B.Rodrigues]

Well this thread suits my idea that Voldemort's destruction would be kind of psichological.. kind of making him prisoner of homself and his thoughts... making him feeling so miserable he won't do anything else than eat, cry and hanging around hoplessly...

[IHateSnakes]

I think if Dumbledore made a life sacrifice, it would have been to protect Snape .. given the scenario and the way it played out ...

I remember a post from another thread where it was said that when Dumbledore 'defeated' Grindelwald - he might not have killed him but maybe took away his magical powers ...
Now think on that for a second with Voldemort - to be reduced to a mere squib or indeed a plain old muggle.
Imagine what it would do to the man - a person that was mortal , incapable of doing magic and a half blood ... I think that would be enough to make Voldemort want to end his own life.
I wonder if his fate is to be reduced to a mortal and have his magical powers stripped away so he is left nothing more than a squib - I don't think he would stay around in that state - I think it would be enough to push that last piece of tortured soul to destruction ...

Good point, also, on more than one occasion DD said that there are things worse than death.

[Ana C.B.Rodrigues]

Well I think that worse than death is, like I said to feel miserable...and Dumbledore was called muggle lover... don't think he would consider to become a muggle a bad thing. As a matter of fact I don't think it's going to be like Highlander... one was born with his powers and keeps them. The matter is I believe that somehow the way to defeat him is humiliating him, and showing him tha truth about Merope and Riddle ... and mainly making him learn that he has gone too far...and that he is alone... I think he can't stand the fact that he never had someone who loved him...

[Alz]

Voldemort can feel misery - he has no love and compassion - that is what we learnt so well in HBP - he was conceived on false love and I think this lead to the baby that was devoid of any positive emotion. Voldemort only understands and experiences negative emotion - he then turns it into what could be conceived as a positive reaction - but if you see someone enjoying being evil, you wouldn't say they were happy even thou their demeanour suggested such right?

Voldemort as far back as when Dumbledore first found him hated the thought that he was the same as anyone else - he hated to identify with anyone - to make him just 'normal' and leave him to exist in a world where he would be no more different than you or I - it would be stripping away all he held dear - to be different and unique - in fact one of a kind!
I think that goes somewhat towards what Dumbledore meant ...
Killing Voldemort would really freak him - but making him live a normal mans existence would seem to model so much what Dumbledore said 'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..' - because killing him would be quick - let the dude suffer like he made others suffer!

[Ana C.B.Rodrigues]

Lol.. I think that he will suffer more when he'll find out that all he has done his whole life is exactly the things he wouldn't like to suffer of....

[Alz]

As Dumbledore explained - Riddle was all too quick to rip his soul than to really appreciate what a whole soul can mean.
Added to this the fact Riddle seemed completely devoid of Love and positive emotion - I think the worse you can do to him is make him understand the power of love - Dumbledore and Voldemort even duelled the point in the meeting they shared - Dumbledore challenged Voldemort on it and Voldemort still believed there was no real relevance to love.
Dumbledore obviously was outspoken on the subject that love was the most powerful thing in the world - thing is Voldemort would never see it as he has never experienced it ... and you only realise how powerful love is when you have experienced it ... so seems fitting that it would play a part in Voldemort's downfall!
Perhaps if Voldemort is made to experience love and the things that come with it - it will destroy or overcome this plain evil side he has.
But if you have no balance, then how can you feel contra - Voldemort doesnt know love and positive emotion, would be really hard to deal with it going 60 odd years without it, really mess with the mind!

[Ana C.B.Rodrigues]

Yeah it could be, but I think that the worst thing to do to Voldemort is to show him his weaknesses....and that's why e feared Dumbledore... Dumbledore knew all of voldemort's fears... He also made sure that Voldemort would remember them... that fear Voldemort has from love is that it would show how weak he is... it doesn't mean he cannot feel love... it just means he has banned it from his life...as he felt he would never be loved back....well.... i guess....

[Sirius Potter Fan]

Some of this sounds a little like a different take on the old Christmas movie "It's a Wonderful Life" Only instead of seeing his life as if he had never been born and seeing all the good he had done as in the movie, Voldemort could be forced to see the life he could have had if he had loved, if he given of himself to another . . . what could have been.

[Alz]

I think it was even written along the lines that Dumbledore doubted Voldemort has ever felt or known love - and I really agree, attributing it to the way he was conceived ... but that is another thread.

If you have never experienced such a strong and powerful emotion, how would it feel to suddenly start to feel it?
Going 60 odd years never feeling love and then suddenly - switched on?
Voldemort could do what he did because he never felt remorse - I mean where does remorse come from?
Voldemort killed and killed because that little voice in his head saying it is wrong to do so, to understand what he was doing, to wonder how it felt or the impact on others - just doesn't register with him.

[Ana C.B.Rodrigues]

My theory is that Voldemort like we see Compute, Playstation... and all those games... I mean.. when you play GTA series ... you know that all you do there is not wrong because it's just a game...still there are some kids who believe that they can do the same in real life. Therefore we have Voldemort who was confused by the pureblood story... You see... both of them are blinded because they can't move real life from ideas or fantasy... that's like you said Alz :D he switched off the "little voice."...

[Alz]

Those little voices in the head are very important to everyone - we all have those moments when you have that little devil and angel sat on opposite shoulders and you are stuck in the middle ...
If you don't understand the hurt you can cause - you don't understand the effects and by-product of your choices - then how are you suppose to make that judgement call?
If Voldemort acts with no feeling because his ripped and diminished soul is devoid of love and positive emotion - then where is that balance of a normal mind?

Take away what makes Voldemort able to do what he does is to neutralise the threat and problem - if he could suddenly hear the voice of consequence, the reaction to his actions - I think h would be just like the rest of us ... if he ever learned regret it would be 1000 times worse for him - he has a lot to be regretful for!