halliemei
20-10-2005, 16:01
We know Dumbledore's Patronus, and now we know VM's boggart (and neither for Snape). I did an editorial where I concluded on Dumbledore's Patronus. I wanted to know what you guys think. Can any of you provide any feedback? I really want to tear apart this theory of mine. (oh, and I have chosen my answer on it, but not everyone will).
What do you guys think?
What is Dumbledore’s Boggart?
A few days ago, we were discussing on one of the threads the potion in the basin in the cave in Half-Blood Prince. We discussed several possibilities about not only the potion, but about Dumbledore’s response to drinking it. As a result, we came up with a possibility, which I decided to write up in an essay. What is Dumbledore’s Boggart?
What is a Boggart?
In Prisoner of Azkaban, we learn that it is a Shape-shifter. (Page 133 US Paperback) “It can take the shape of whatever it thinks will frighten us most.” Basically, it is the physical representation of whatever the person fears most. What’s interesting, is that it decides what it thinks will frighten you, indicating that it can possibly “read your mind” to determine this.
What do we know about Dumbledore’s Boggart?We don’t know what it is, but in the interview with Joanne Rowling, Emerson and Melissa from Mugglenet.com and The-Leaky-Cauldron.org find out (in part two):
ES: What would Dumbledore's boggart be?
JKR: I can't answer that either, but for theories you should read six again. There you go.That is, of course, what I’m doing. Using this, can we make a guess? I think the answer is in one of two places.
What Boggarts do we know?
To get to Dumbledore’s, we need to investigate what Boggarts we do know. In Prisoner of Azkaban, we get introduced to several in the very first lesson for DADA.
Neville’s is Professor Snape. Ron’s is a spider. Seamus’ is a Banshee, and Dean’s is a severed hand. Parvati Patil’s is not the enormous snake that Alfonso Cuaron would have you think, but a mummy.
But, Boggarts aren’t just limited to students. Mrs. Weasley’s, we find out in Order of the Phoenix, is her family dead in succession, including Harry. And Professor Lupin’s is a glowing orb.
What determines the shape?
Well, we’ve already found out that the Boggart determines what it THINKS will be the encountering person’s greatest fear. But, it turns out that it’s either a physical thing (such as Snape, a spider, or a mummy) OR it can be a physical manifestation of a fear. An example of such a manifestation would be Hermione’s boggart, which we’ll discuss in a minute.
Physical Fears
Neville is actually afraid of Severus Snape. Ron is ACTUALLY afraid (make that terrified) of spiders. This shows that if you’re afraid of something, the boggart takes its shape.
But, it’s not that simple . . . is Dean afraid of severed body parts? Is Harry afraid of a Dementor – the Boy who Lived? Or is it what they represent?
Manifestations
Hermione’s boggart, we find out in Prisoner of Azkaban (chapter 16, Professor Trelawney’s Prediction, page 319 US Paperbook) is
“P—P—Professor McGonagall!” Hermione gasped, pointing into the trunk. “Sh—she said I’d failed everything!”
Now, is Hermione actually afraid of McGonagall or of failing her coursework?
Dean, as an artist, is afraid of losing his hand(s) or his talent. It turns out later that Lupin isn’t actually afraid of the moon, but of what it means to him. Harry’s dementor suggestions that what Harry fears is . . . Back to page 155, US Paperback in Prisoner of Azkaban.
“I see,” said Lupin thoughtfully. “Well, well . . . I’m impressed.” He smiled slightly at the look of surprise on Harry’s face. “That suggests that what fear most of all is – fear. Very wise, Harry.”
Questionable Boggarts
Voldemort’s boggart, as confirmed by Rowling herself:
ES: MuggleNet “Ask Jo” contest winner Asrial, who’s 22, asks, “If Voldemort saw a boggart, what would it be?”
JKR: Voldemort's fear is death, ignominious death. I mean, he regards death itself as ignominious. He thinks that it's a shameful human weakness, as you know. His worst fear is death, but how would a boggart show that? I'm not too sure. I did think about that because I knew you were going to ask me that.
ES: A corpse?
JKR: That was my conclusion, that he would see himself dead.
That implies that it’s a manifestation of his fear, but perhaps he is actually afraid of a corpse him . . .
So, back to Dumbledore
There are two places in Half-Blood Prince that Harry recognizes behavior that is unusual for Dumbledore. These are the two possible clues to Dumbledore’s Boggart – the Cave and the Astronomy Tower.
The Cave
Page 571 US
“Professor Dumbledore?” said Harry, his voice strained. “Can you hear me?”
Dumbledore did not answer. His face was twitching as though he was deeply asleep, but dreaming a horrible dream. His grip on the goblet was slackening; the potion was about to spill from it. Harry reached forward and grasped the crystal cup, holding it steady.
“Professor, can you hear me?” he repeated loudly, his voice echoing around the cavern.
Dumbledore panted and then spoke in a voice Harry did not recognize, for he had never heard Dumbledore frightened like this.
“I don’t want . . . Don’t make me. . .”
Harry stared into the whitened face he knew so well, at the crooked nose and half-moon spectacles, and did not know what do to.
“. . . don’t like . . . want to stop . . .” moaned Dumbledore.
“You. . . you can’t stop, Professor,” said Harry. “You’ve got to keep drinking, remember? You told me you had to keep drinking. Here. . . .”
Hating himself, repulsed by what he was doing, Harry forced the goblet back toward Dumbledore’s mouth and tipped it, so that Dumbledore drank the remainder of the potion inside.
“No. . . .” he groaned, as Harry lowered the goblet back into the basin and refilled it for him. “I don’t want to. . . . I don’t want to. . . . Let me go. . . .”
“It’s all right, Professor,” said Harry, his hand shaking. “It’s all right. I’m here –“
“Make it stop, make it stop,” moaned Dumbledore.
“Yes . . . yes, this’ll make it stop,” lied Harry. He tipped the contents of the goblet into Dumbledore’s open mouth.
Dumbledore screamed; the noise echoed all around the vast chamber, across the dead black water.
“No, no, no no, I’ can’t, I can’t, don’t make me, I don’t want to. . . . “
“It’s all right, Professor, it’s all right!” said Harry loudly, his hands shaking so badly he could hardly scoop up the sixth goblet of potion, the basin was now half empty. “Nothing’s happening to you, you’re safe, it isn’t real, I swear it isn’t real – take this, now, take this. . . .”
And obediently, Dumbledore drank, as though it was an antidote Harry offered him, but upon draining the goblet, he sank to his knees, shaking uncontrollably.
“It’s all my fault, all my fault,” he sobbed. “Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh please make it stop and I’ll never, never again . . .”
“This will make it stop, Professor,” Harry said, his voice cracking as he tipped the seventh glass of potion into Dumbledore’s mouth.
Dumbledore began to cower as though invisible torturers surrounded him; his flailing hand almost knocked the refilled goblet from Harry’s trembling hands as he moaned, “Don’t hurt them, don’t hurt them, please, please it’s my fault, hurt me instead . . .”This reads like Dumbledore is afraid of something only he can see. We don’t know what is in the basin containing the green potion, so we must surmise. The fans have considered poisons of various kinds, but a “poison” by itself doesn’t cause this reaction – that we’ve seen to this point. What have we seen up to this point that could cause this reaction? There are two possibilities . . . a dementor (by reliving Dumbledore’s worst memory) or a boggart (living his worst fear). To believe “dementor” you’d have to assume that Dumbledore has such a terrible memory. There are possibilities (Godric’s Hollow, for example) but there is little evidence of this. The memory could be of someone else (such as Tom Riddle with the children in the cave), but we’ve not seen living someone else’s memory to this point in the series, so that would not be cannon. The only similar reaction was that of Molly Weasley’s when seeing the boggart in Order of the Phoenix.
The Astronomy Tower
After talking calmly and almost arrogantly to Draco, Severus Snape turns up on the tower. Page 595 US tells us:
But somebody else had spoken Snape’s name, quite softly.
“Severus . . .”
The sound frightened Harry beyond anything he had experienced all evening. For the first time, Dumbledore was pleading.
Snape said nothing, but walked forward and pushed Malfoy roughly out of the way. The three Death Eaters fell back without a word. Even the werewolf seemed cowed.
Snape gazed for a moment at Dumbledore, and there was revulsion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face.
“Severus . . . please . . .”
Snape raised his wand and pointed it directly at Dumbledore.
“Avada Kadavra!”What is Dumbledore pleading with Severus Snape about? Again, there are two theories – his death or his life? Many fans choose to believe that Dumbledore was right about Severus Snape and that they planned Dumbledore’s death. There are lots of theories on how and why, but they are irrelevant to this discussion. But, if that is the case, Dumbledore is pleading with Snape to kill him as they planned. Or, was Dumbledore taken by surprise by Severus Snape? Dumbledore was pleading with Snape NOT to kill and betray him. Which is it?
What is Dumbledore’s Boggart?
So, we’re left with either “Boggart in a Basin” in the Cave of the “Judas” of Harry Potter.
It is possible that Voldemort somehow put in the basin the essence of a boggart. He had the services of an amazing potions master working for him, up until sometime after the Prophesy concerning “The Dark Lord” and Harry Potter. Snape made up spells in SCHOOL that the Death Eaters used (Levicorpus for one). Why couldn’t he invent potions? Since Harry and Dumbledore chose not to test the potion/poison for its components (using Specialis Revelio, see page 376 US for more), we don’t know for sure. But, it is within logic that Dumbledore would experience his fear of hurting someone.
If not that, his fear is that of being betrayed (perhaps in the form of Judas?). He knew Snape had “betrayed” Voldemort for the Order, so it’s quite plausible that Dumbledore saw his greatest fear realized in Snape’s betrayal on the tower.
Bottled Boggart or Judas? You decide.
What do you guys think?
What is Dumbledore’s Boggart?
A few days ago, we were discussing on one of the threads the potion in the basin in the cave in Half-Blood Prince. We discussed several possibilities about not only the potion, but about Dumbledore’s response to drinking it. As a result, we came up with a possibility, which I decided to write up in an essay. What is Dumbledore’s Boggart?
What is a Boggart?
In Prisoner of Azkaban, we learn that it is a Shape-shifter. (Page 133 US Paperback) “It can take the shape of whatever it thinks will frighten us most.” Basically, it is the physical representation of whatever the person fears most. What’s interesting, is that it decides what it thinks will frighten you, indicating that it can possibly “read your mind” to determine this.
What do we know about Dumbledore’s Boggart?We don’t know what it is, but in the interview with Joanne Rowling, Emerson and Melissa from Mugglenet.com and The-Leaky-Cauldron.org find out (in part two):
ES: What would Dumbledore's boggart be?
JKR: I can't answer that either, but for theories you should read six again. There you go.That is, of course, what I’m doing. Using this, can we make a guess? I think the answer is in one of two places.
What Boggarts do we know?
To get to Dumbledore’s, we need to investigate what Boggarts we do know. In Prisoner of Azkaban, we get introduced to several in the very first lesson for DADA.
Neville’s is Professor Snape. Ron’s is a spider. Seamus’ is a Banshee, and Dean’s is a severed hand. Parvati Patil’s is not the enormous snake that Alfonso Cuaron would have you think, but a mummy.
But, Boggarts aren’t just limited to students. Mrs. Weasley’s, we find out in Order of the Phoenix, is her family dead in succession, including Harry. And Professor Lupin’s is a glowing orb.
What determines the shape?
Well, we’ve already found out that the Boggart determines what it THINKS will be the encountering person’s greatest fear. But, it turns out that it’s either a physical thing (such as Snape, a spider, or a mummy) OR it can be a physical manifestation of a fear. An example of such a manifestation would be Hermione’s boggart, which we’ll discuss in a minute.
Physical Fears
Neville is actually afraid of Severus Snape. Ron is ACTUALLY afraid (make that terrified) of spiders. This shows that if you’re afraid of something, the boggart takes its shape.
But, it’s not that simple . . . is Dean afraid of severed body parts? Is Harry afraid of a Dementor – the Boy who Lived? Or is it what they represent?
Manifestations
Hermione’s boggart, we find out in Prisoner of Azkaban (chapter 16, Professor Trelawney’s Prediction, page 319 US Paperbook) is
“P—P—Professor McGonagall!” Hermione gasped, pointing into the trunk. “Sh—she said I’d failed everything!”
Now, is Hermione actually afraid of McGonagall or of failing her coursework?
Dean, as an artist, is afraid of losing his hand(s) or his talent. It turns out later that Lupin isn’t actually afraid of the moon, but of what it means to him. Harry’s dementor suggestions that what Harry fears is . . . Back to page 155, US Paperback in Prisoner of Azkaban.
“I see,” said Lupin thoughtfully. “Well, well . . . I’m impressed.” He smiled slightly at the look of surprise on Harry’s face. “That suggests that what fear most of all is – fear. Very wise, Harry.”
Questionable Boggarts
Voldemort’s boggart, as confirmed by Rowling herself:
ES: MuggleNet “Ask Jo” contest winner Asrial, who’s 22, asks, “If Voldemort saw a boggart, what would it be?”
JKR: Voldemort's fear is death, ignominious death. I mean, he regards death itself as ignominious. He thinks that it's a shameful human weakness, as you know. His worst fear is death, but how would a boggart show that? I'm not too sure. I did think about that because I knew you were going to ask me that.
ES: A corpse?
JKR: That was my conclusion, that he would see himself dead.
That implies that it’s a manifestation of his fear, but perhaps he is actually afraid of a corpse him . . .
So, back to Dumbledore
There are two places in Half-Blood Prince that Harry recognizes behavior that is unusual for Dumbledore. These are the two possible clues to Dumbledore’s Boggart – the Cave and the Astronomy Tower.
The Cave
Page 571 US
“Professor Dumbledore?” said Harry, his voice strained. “Can you hear me?”
Dumbledore did not answer. His face was twitching as though he was deeply asleep, but dreaming a horrible dream. His grip on the goblet was slackening; the potion was about to spill from it. Harry reached forward and grasped the crystal cup, holding it steady.
“Professor, can you hear me?” he repeated loudly, his voice echoing around the cavern.
Dumbledore panted and then spoke in a voice Harry did not recognize, for he had never heard Dumbledore frightened like this.
“I don’t want . . . Don’t make me. . .”
Harry stared into the whitened face he knew so well, at the crooked nose and half-moon spectacles, and did not know what do to.
“. . . don’t like . . . want to stop . . .” moaned Dumbledore.
“You. . . you can’t stop, Professor,” said Harry. “You’ve got to keep drinking, remember? You told me you had to keep drinking. Here. . . .”
Hating himself, repulsed by what he was doing, Harry forced the goblet back toward Dumbledore’s mouth and tipped it, so that Dumbledore drank the remainder of the potion inside.
“No. . . .” he groaned, as Harry lowered the goblet back into the basin and refilled it for him. “I don’t want to. . . . I don’t want to. . . . Let me go. . . .”
“It’s all right, Professor,” said Harry, his hand shaking. “It’s all right. I’m here –“
“Make it stop, make it stop,” moaned Dumbledore.
“Yes . . . yes, this’ll make it stop,” lied Harry. He tipped the contents of the goblet into Dumbledore’s open mouth.
Dumbledore screamed; the noise echoed all around the vast chamber, across the dead black water.
“No, no, no no, I’ can’t, I can’t, don’t make me, I don’t want to. . . . “
“It’s all right, Professor, it’s all right!” said Harry loudly, his hands shaking so badly he could hardly scoop up the sixth goblet of potion, the basin was now half empty. “Nothing’s happening to you, you’re safe, it isn’t real, I swear it isn’t real – take this, now, take this. . . .”
And obediently, Dumbledore drank, as though it was an antidote Harry offered him, but upon draining the goblet, he sank to his knees, shaking uncontrollably.
“It’s all my fault, all my fault,” he sobbed. “Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh please make it stop and I’ll never, never again . . .”
“This will make it stop, Professor,” Harry said, his voice cracking as he tipped the seventh glass of potion into Dumbledore’s mouth.
Dumbledore began to cower as though invisible torturers surrounded him; his flailing hand almost knocked the refilled goblet from Harry’s trembling hands as he moaned, “Don’t hurt them, don’t hurt them, please, please it’s my fault, hurt me instead . . .”This reads like Dumbledore is afraid of something only he can see. We don’t know what is in the basin containing the green potion, so we must surmise. The fans have considered poisons of various kinds, but a “poison” by itself doesn’t cause this reaction – that we’ve seen to this point. What have we seen up to this point that could cause this reaction? There are two possibilities . . . a dementor (by reliving Dumbledore’s worst memory) or a boggart (living his worst fear). To believe “dementor” you’d have to assume that Dumbledore has such a terrible memory. There are possibilities (Godric’s Hollow, for example) but there is little evidence of this. The memory could be of someone else (such as Tom Riddle with the children in the cave), but we’ve not seen living someone else’s memory to this point in the series, so that would not be cannon. The only similar reaction was that of Molly Weasley’s when seeing the boggart in Order of the Phoenix.
The Astronomy Tower
After talking calmly and almost arrogantly to Draco, Severus Snape turns up on the tower. Page 595 US tells us:
But somebody else had spoken Snape’s name, quite softly.
“Severus . . .”
The sound frightened Harry beyond anything he had experienced all evening. For the first time, Dumbledore was pleading.
Snape said nothing, but walked forward and pushed Malfoy roughly out of the way. The three Death Eaters fell back without a word. Even the werewolf seemed cowed.
Snape gazed for a moment at Dumbledore, and there was revulsion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face.
“Severus . . . please . . .”
Snape raised his wand and pointed it directly at Dumbledore.
“Avada Kadavra!”What is Dumbledore pleading with Severus Snape about? Again, there are two theories – his death or his life? Many fans choose to believe that Dumbledore was right about Severus Snape and that they planned Dumbledore’s death. There are lots of theories on how and why, but they are irrelevant to this discussion. But, if that is the case, Dumbledore is pleading with Snape to kill him as they planned. Or, was Dumbledore taken by surprise by Severus Snape? Dumbledore was pleading with Snape NOT to kill and betray him. Which is it?
What is Dumbledore’s Boggart?
So, we’re left with either “Boggart in a Basin” in the Cave of the “Judas” of Harry Potter.
It is possible that Voldemort somehow put in the basin the essence of a boggart. He had the services of an amazing potions master working for him, up until sometime after the Prophesy concerning “The Dark Lord” and Harry Potter. Snape made up spells in SCHOOL that the Death Eaters used (Levicorpus for one). Why couldn’t he invent potions? Since Harry and Dumbledore chose not to test the potion/poison for its components (using Specialis Revelio, see page 376 US for more), we don’t know for sure. But, it is within logic that Dumbledore would experience his fear of hurting someone.
If not that, his fear is that of being betrayed (perhaps in the form of Judas?). He knew Snape had “betrayed” Voldemort for the Order, so it’s quite plausible that Dumbledore saw his greatest fear realized in Snape’s betrayal on the tower.
Bottled Boggart or Judas? You decide.