The love of a Death Eater

[The Frozen North]

There has been much speculation, based on Dumbldore's comments, that love will be Voldermort's ultimate downfall. We are all assuming that this will have some connection to Harry, either by form of protection, as before, or that it will have some kind of direct effect on Voldermort. However I believe that JKR may be giving us a hint with the Malfoy situation.

What is Voldermort without his followers? He becomes nothing more than a sociopath, a powerful one but none the less a sociopath, killing without aim or remorse. What appears to drive Voldermort is power so without people behind him he is nothing according to his own standards and values.

To take this a little further, look at how Narcissa has already defied Voldermort to protect her son, talking to Snape about Draco's task, what else is she willing to do for love? How many other DEs and other followers will defy their master for love? When this happens Voldermort will begin to loose power (not his magical powers of course but power over others)

Just as an example, if anyone has seen the TV program 24, the terrorist was willing to sacrifice his wife and son for his cause but in the HP books, at least one DE does not appear to be willing to make this sacrifice. Puts their loyalty in question doesn't it?

[Alz]

I think you raise a valid point ...
Voldemort has been seen to inflict misery and death on his own loyal followers in order to achieve his own means - even Bellatrix I think is starting to realise that anyone is expendable in Voldemort's ranks ... she was proud of how she stayed loyal to Voldemort through all those years in Azkaban - but when she put a foot wrong, i.e. the Department of Mysteries - she could see that loyal service doesn't count for everything.
I don't think she is quite ready to turn - I mean she seemed very committed still in Spinner's End - but I just detected a few moments when her arguments seem to waiver slightly.

The Malfoy's are prime for turning - Naricissa has seen her Husband and now Son be placed at life staking situations at the command of Voldemort.
Draco I think later into the task begins to question his own blaise and rhetoric in the subject of being a Death Eater - at first he felt proud and honoured - special in fact - but as the task grew on him he soon began to realise that in fact he was in real danger - Draco's reactions on the tower told a thousand words - he was almost ready to walk away until he heard the footsteps behind him and then was prompted back into his task.

The Death Eaters do have something their powerful Dark Lord doesn't - and it is the same as Harry - they also have something maybe just as important - a choice ..
It is amazing how many evil people are bought down by the people around them - and I think that is why he chooses to leave them as servants to him - to try and remove the doubt every dark/evil person has - that one of his people will lead to his death ...

[Hermione]

How many others aren't willing to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Voldemort? I am betting a few. I noticed Crabbe and Goyle Jr. haven't joined up, this may say something. So not only is the bad treatment of the Malfoys affecting their family, but also their friend's opinions.

I do think Voldemort will always have some followers, for example, I don't think Greyback will ever leave him. There will be some creatures, who are denied rights by the wizarding world and given them by the Dark Lord, and it doesn't make sense for them to abandon him.

His human support may start to dwindle.

[Alz]

How many others aren't willing to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Voldemort? I am betting a few. I noticed Crabbe and Goyle Jr. haven't joined up, this may say something.
That is a good point ...
You would have thought that they would have been put forward the same time as Draco - if for nothing more than moral support ... make it like a mini-club :p
Someone once posted a thread speculating that indeed the DE's might start to loose respect of their master once they found out his true roots.
In fact, even Voldemort doubted them - the fact none of them came looking for him after he died that night.

[kashlie]

The DE don't really have power without Voldemort above them. The threat of Voldemort only works when he is actually around - the DE couldn't tell someone the Dark Lord would get them when not even they were sure where he was!

The DE know the only way to advance within the ranks is to do something extremely pleasing, most pleasing of all would be for someone to capture Harry. But that also know, that any degree of failure could lead to their death or the death of their family. I believe some are starting to realise that doing nothing to help the Dark Lord is safer than trying and failing, and eventually they will see he cares not an ounce for any of them.
Their love for their families will soon over power their love for the master.
I wonder if the collective power of the DE who turn on Voldemort, and the members of the Order, would be enough to bring down Voldemort?

[god is broke]

i don't think the majority of the DE will turn against voldy but a few will, and a few might be enough if they work with the OPF. i think the majority of the people with people who are with voldy like the things he allows them to do like greyback. with voldy he can attack people more.

[Alz]

I think this was somewhat mirrored in HBP with Bellatrix and Narcissa ..
They both are blood sisters - Bella really worries about her sis and at one point Narcissa actually attacks her - but she still remains worried about her.
My point here is that Bella, who seems cold and evil, still has love inside her.
But to turn this to Spinner's End once more - Bella stood there and said she would happily sacrifice any of her offspring in the service of the Dark Lord (If she was able to have any) whereas wife of Death Eater is distraught at the possibility that her son will die in service.
What this shows to me that there is a balance in all of the DE's - they do care and love and will fight and protect the ones they love - but also some see Voldemort as more worthy - in a straight choice between Voldemort and Narcissa - who would Bella pick? Interesting question ;)

[kashlie]

I think it is funny how we now know for certain that Voldemort has never felt love, nor can he feel it himself. I also think it is funny that we now know his followers still have love left inside them. Is JKR pointing this out on purpose? She just may be. If we see the death eaters softer sides, then eventually Voldemort will too. He will lose whatever trust he had in them and could self destruct - killing off his own supporters faster than he gains them?
I think too that if Bellatrix ever did have her own children she would think twice about sacrificing them. She has never experienced the overwhelming love for a child, and therefore does not understand Narcissa's treason.

[Alz]

I think the obvious flaw in Voldemort is he will never understand and also underplay the power of love. Even in his followers he must see them say and do things that seem very wierd to him - I mean Bellatrix was married to a fellow Death Eater!
I think the DE's all want to be close to him - to be his most trusted - but he is a loaner by choice and must look at the actions of his Death Eaters and feel nothing but pity and loathing, the best emotions he can feel.
Even if Snape - who many DE's are nervous that he could be the closest to Voldemort - was in mortal peril, Voldemort would not care!
So - should he care if other DE's are having feelings that he cant and doesnt feel?
I think he should - because all the others are capable of feeling love and the likes - and if their compassion leads to solidarity - he could find himself in a mutiny. They have the power to overthrow him from the inside based on what Wormtail knows, what Narcissa and Bellatrix knows - every one of his servents are expendible and it then becomes the choice of an individual to if they feel he is worthy to die for - or even kill for - to loose everything for.

[kaz]

This is a little off topic, but someone said before that Crabbe and Goyle Jr's haven't been asked to join Voldemort- I wonder if that is because they are underage? If the ministry catch them they cant really say 'My boss said I could...'!

The DE's defying Voldemort for love...I think a few would. I already think Snape has- for Dumbledore. Hmm, maybe respect, and yes, I suppose in someway love. Malfoy's mum has already defied him, as has Snape and probably Bella. I'm guessing that none of them told Vold about the UV as to protect one another...well, Bella to protect her sister, and Snape to protect Narcissa and Draco and of course Narc to protect her son.

[Alz]

I suppose this supports the case that even the DE's arent 100% bought in with Voldemort - they may just be falling behind him because of concept and belief more than that person.
This is important - because the belief and thoughts can be portrayed by another visionary and not just Voldemort - if it was the man they believed in then it would make it less likely you might have a revolt.
Kaz makes a good point - we have seen signs of deception and also the cracks in the ranks - you wonder how much Voldemort is without his DE's ... while he is a loaner by nature and powerful on his own - he still requires these DE's to do all the small things he doesnt want to bother himself with.

[kaz]

I'm not sure the DE's are doing things he can't be bothered with, I think he uses them as pawns for the smaller things so he doesn't get caught. I really don't think he would be as powerful without his supporters. Power goes to peoples heads and the more the feeling of power is fueled, the more powerful they think they are so the more powerful they become. We have learnt that Voldemort used to torture and harrass others at the orphanage, Hogwarts etc so people either looked up to him or feared him from back then- and I think it was through these people he gained power. If his supporters chose to turn against him, it would severely damage his ego (and make him very cranky!) and I think it would make him do something nasty with out thinking and Harry would ka-pow and have his way with him. Can you tell I lost my train of thought...bit of a lame ending..sorry!

[Alz]

I can see what you are saying - he has his DE's more as an ego booster than anything useful?
It makes sense - you see that a lot with famous people - surround themselves with sycophant people that spend their days saying how wonderful they are - to the point the famous person looses touch with reality ...
However in Voldemort's case - has to be said he already seemed to have lost the plot - even before we saw him in the Orphanage!
I agree - by nature he is a loaner and couldn't give a rats ass about the DE's - but I think whether he chooses to acknowledge it or not - he does need them.
There are many menial tasks that need to be performed while being a Dark Lord and to have to risk the exposure - risk being caught - just to dispatch a couple of irksome thorn in the sides ... why would he stoop so low ...
He has gotten used to these people being at his disposal - these people as his servants ... that to loose them would hurt his grip on power.

[The Frozen North]

Voldermort needs his DEs, without doubt. This is what I was getting at when I started the thread. Without his DEs he can't really be the Dark Lord as his followers call him; the Dark Lord of what precisely? Voldermort's real power comes, not from his magical ability, but from his power over people. How many times do you see in gangster movies, the Mafia boss is physically weak and not always the most inteligent but is always the most charismatic and the best leader, he has power over people. If Voldermort looses his DEs he looses everything. Not that he wants allies, he wants minions!!! This is why I think that love, that amongst DEs and their families, could be Voldermort's downfall.

[Alz]

Totally agree!
He doesn't want people close - side by side - he wants them underfoot and needy. He wants servants.
But that doesn't lessen the requirement because as you said - if he was totally alone and unsupported - he would be considered 'dangerous, delusional and mentally unstable' - while he really is all of these - he also has people that give credence to his thoughts and direction - thus give him support and create his movement.

[cagedcactus]

At this point are there any major names we can really throw in the mix here?
I would say that some of them like Bellatrix, Fenrir, Wormtail, Snape (if he really killed DD), Dolohov, Nott, Avery, Amycus and Lucius Malfoy shouldnt even have an option to change now.
These people have gone too deep in Dark side. Only fate they can have if they want to change, is to sacrifice their lives to support the light side.
Bella and Fenrir are just pure evil. They are just impossibles to turn. Wormtail and Malfoy, at some point, may realise their mistakes. But redemption can be offered only to a certain degree, right?

[The Frozen North]

I think you've misunderstood a bit here cagedcactus, I'm not suggesting that any of the DEs will change and come over to the good side, just that they will stop supporting Voldermort (and maybe even rebel but that does not make them good) and thus Voldermort will loose his power.

[cagedcactus]

I think you've misunderstood a bit here cagedcactus, I'm not suggesting that any of the DEs will change and come over to the good side, just that they will stop supporting Voldermort (and maybe even rebel but that does not make them good) and thus Voldermort will loose his power.
Oh... the post wasnt in reference of yours. It was just matching idea to yours. I was just wondering what JKR will show in the Book 7.
I also agree with your statement actually. you see, it may work out that way. Some of them might realize what kind of trouble they are heading at, and back out. Just revolt or flee after backing out. Families could very well play huge role here.
Voldemort himself doesnt have any family. We all know that. The day all these followers realise the value of feelings towards family, it would spell trouble for Voldemort.

[Alz]

Not sure where we discussed this but I think when it comes to rebellion, I still wonder how the DE's will feel when they find out their master is a half blood?
It would seem from JKR's writing that the DE's are more sporned on by Voldemort based on his hatred and loathing of anything less than pure blood ... I don't think too many of them are in it for the blood and glory but more just to cleans the bloodlines so to speak ... so if this is the case, and we do have data to suggest the wealthier wizards of pureblood decent are very proud of this and somewhat supported what Voldemort stood for (if not his way of execution) then all these people that champion him for this - who will they feel when he is all they try to stand against?
I think that still offers the biggest avenue for cracks in the movement!