Where was Dumbledore?

[PrettyMS.Potter]

Question Here? I the beginning if Dumbledore new about the prochecy then why would Hagrid use an enchanted motorcycle to bring Harry to Privet drive? There was no mention of a cloaking device on the bike so muggles wouldn't spot him. Also... with something that important, why wasn't a portkey used or apparation? In fact why didn't Dumbledore get Harry himself? What was he doing at the time? Fighting Voldemort? Protecting N***? Where was Dumbledore when Lily and James were being killed? What was more important than getting Harry out?"

[Kingsley]

Dumbledore was at the house telling Lily to stand aside after James got killed---
No but seriously I would have to say thatDumbledore could have been at neville's --we know Dumbledore asked Hagrid so he had to be doing something more important--to himself--also we know that he knew that the Dursleys would be used because McGonagall was staking out the Dursleys that whole day

[Boing]

Well, how would Dumbledore have known where the house was in the first place? They were supposed to be in hiding and only the secret keeper would know where they were. Until the attack on the house, they probably didn't know where the Potters were. That does make me wonder, though, how they found out. That whole night is very confusing!!

[Alz]

I thought that as soon as Pettigrew told Voldemort the spell was broke, or it could be that because the Potters were dead the spell once again ended?
The question you are missing is who told Dumbledore they had been attacked, perhaps someone who is now trusted by Dumbledore?;)
My guess is Dumbledore was doing something more important that getting Harry, which tends to suggest it was a ground breaking and highly important thing, I mean the life of Harry in the balance and he send Hagrid?
It has been said that Black worked out Peter was missing and then went to the Potters House found them dead and called for help but I get the impression Hagrid and Black arrived around the same time and the events had happened more than a few minutes before ... this adds weight to a third person being present that night ... that leads me to Snape;)

[Nagini]

Yeah I have to agree with you Blaise. I too believe Snape was there that fateful night and I too got the impression that Hagrid and Sirius arrived at the same time.

I thought Hagrid arrived on Dumbledores orders and that he knew where to go because there wasn't much left of the house and of course they put the Dark Mark in the sky after the Death Eaters had been there.

I dont think Voldemort was alone when he went to the Potters house that night I think he would have taken some of his death eaters with him. I think Snape was one of those in attendance, but that he was there spying for Dumbledore too and that is how Dumbledore knew where they were going and where to send Hagrid.

Although I find it very odd that Dumbledore chose to stay at Hogwarts rather than turn up himself knowing that Voldemort feared him and that he could be instrumental in saving the Potters. That just seemed odd to me. :confused:

[Boing]

hee hee, I love to see more people agreeing that there was another person at the house that night. In my other post, I had indicated that the person who tells Lily to get out of the way was not Voldemort, but a DE or someone there that just wanted to get Harry and either take him to safety or turn him over to Voldemort.

I love the idea that it was Snape. He is such an interesting character.

As for where Dumbledore really was, maybe he just let things happen so as not to interfere with the prophecy. If he knew that Voldemort was going to mark Harry as his equal, perhaps he just let it happen so that the prophecy could be fulfilled and Voldemort would be destroyed - albeit a few years later . . .

[PrettyMS.Potter]

I think Snape was one of those in attendance, but that he was there spying for Dumbledore too and that is how Dumbledore knew where they were going and where to send Hagrid.

Although I find it very odd that Dumbledore chose to stay at Hogwarts rather than turn up himself knowing that Voldemort feared him and that he could be instrumental in saving the Potters. That just seemed odd to me. :confused:


I don't think Snape was spying for Dumbledore at this time or was he? This could have been one of the things Snape did to earn Dumbledore's respect. I'm not to sure on this.

Well in regards to Dumbledore staying at Hogwarts I agree with Gini here why did he stay there instead of helping out. I know we have mentioned about letting prophecy fullfil itself, but Dumbledore could of least help by saying a live or two.

Also in regards to my questions above. I know Dumbledore trust Hagrid with his life but why didn't Dumbledore use a portkey or something else more important to bring little harry to Pivet Drive instead of a motorcycle?

[Alz]

The prophecy to fulfil didn't need Lily and James to die, that was a consequence of getting to Harry - and also supported in Voldemorts comments about Lily didn't have to die - and he even told her to step aside ...
Off topic alert - I will raise that in a new thread :)

Dumbledore could and would have made a huge difference in the way this could have played out - I have heard it said many a time that if common sense was applied then there would be no story - but by the same respect you have to maintain credibility to the story - and when I see people try to explain something along the lines of 'well it had to happen for us to have a story' I think that says 2 things, either JKR is loosing her credibility by leaving events in a way that so could so easily be avoided (I don't think so, she is very clever) or in fact there is another reason for things like this ...

[Tinkerbell]

Tend to think that Dumbledore felt things were covered with Snape being in Godric's Hollow, as was at the time doing the double spy thing for V and the Order!

Perhaps the intention was for Snape to get Harry out, knowing that James and Lily were going to be killed in any event, and that they could not stop this if they wanted to get Harry out alive?

I think Dumbledore thought it best to get to the Dursleys to ensure everything was OK that end.

With regard to the motorbike, perhaps they didn't have time to put any charms on it to deter Muggles and had to do memory modifications afterwards.

[Jenelle]

Dumbledore was at the house telling Lily to stand aside after James got killed---
No but seriously I would have to say thatDumbledore could have been at neville's --we know Dumbledore asked Hagrid so he had to be doing something more important--to himself--also we know that he knew that the Dursleys would be used because McGonagall was staking out the Dursleys that whole day

I think that DD could very well have been at the Longbottoms checking to see which one of the children were "marked" like in the prophecy...

[Jenelle]

Maybe the reason that DD stayed wherever he was was because he knew someone else's prophecy...like the potters or someone else that was crutial to HP's prophecy being fulfilled and either him or V getting killed.

[MissWhizbee]

I have a couple of thoughts on this matter...

Pettigrew was the secret keeper with the fidelius charm, but my understanding is that the secret keeper can tell anyone he wants where the Potter's live and then that person will be able to find them. It doesn't break the charm, it just allows that person who has been told access to the potters. So, it would stand to reason that DD, Hagrid, Sirius, Lupin, and probably several others actually knew where the Potters were. They couldn't divulge the info to anyone else because of the way the Fidelius charm works, but they knew where the potters were.

Also, I think it is very possible that DD was at the MoM on the day in question. As we know Fudge always looked to DD in the old days to sort things out for him. I am sure that DD was probably briefing the MoM officials on what had taken place. How did DD know what had taken place? He could have had charms put on the potters' house to let him know if anything bad had happened, he could have had pictures in the house of old head masters of hogwarts that could report back to him about the status of the Potters. It seems that things with Voldemort went pretty quickly, I mean it doesn't take long to kill someone with the AK Curse, so Voldemort probably dispatched of Lily and James within minutes of arriving at the Potters, so even if DD was alerted rather quickly to the happenings, there is a good chance that with just 5 or 10 minutes delay he would have been too late to have helped.

So, maybe he went to the house and saw that Harry was alive and made sure that Hagrid would come to get baby Harry ASAP. He had things he had to take care of at the ministry of magic and knew that for the time being Harry would be fine where he was, even if he was alone for a little while, it would be better than taking Harry to the MoM with him and trying to explain everything and take care of a screaming crying baby too. (we know DD didn't think twice about leaving Baby Harry alone on the Doorstep at Privet Drive, even though I find that extremely wreckless and weird) so it doesn't seem to extreme to think that he would knowingly leave him alone after the attack in order to take care of other pressing business adn then send someone along whom he trusted very much to get Harry to take him safely to the Dursley's.

Only thing I can think about Hagrid not using a port key or some other form of faster magic to get Harry to the Dursley's woudl be that DD knew he wouldn't be at the Dursley's until late so Hagrid didn't need to hurry about it, you have to have permission to use a port key so perhaps they didn't have time to get permission, and Hagrid isn't really supposed to use magic, (we know it isn't really using magic yourself when you use an enchanted item because Harry and Ron didn't get in trouble for underage sorcery when they flew the enchanted ford anglia, so Hagrid could have used Sirius' bike wwithout problem because he wasn't really using magic).

[Alz]

Just to come back on that if you dont mind ... ;)

There has been no mention of Dumbledore being there onsite post Potter attack ...
Also, I think they swapped the secret keeper so nobody knew where the Potters were - just in case because we know that there were doubts in the camp about a spy ...
I was under the impression Black was the one that rumbled the plot but arrived too late - the same time as Hagrid arrived.
He gave Hagrid his bike and then went after Pettigrew ... and we know how that played out ...

Personally, I think Dumbledore was more aware than he has given the impression of...

And you are right about the telling of - look no further than OoTP and the Headquarters - secret keeper can tell other and not break the charm ...

[Boing]

Okay, so I'm intrigued again about this Dumbledore character. :)

I like the idea that he went to the Longbottoms that night to see if Neville would be chosen. I also like the idea that he sent his double agent Snape along to the other house - it wouldn't be suspicious at all to Voldemort that a DE wanted to tag along. So, Voldemort kills James and Snape goes in to try and save Harry from Lily - to take him to safety and he tells her to stand aside. However, she has no idea that Snape is on the good side and thinks he is just a DE, so she refuses, Voldemort comes in, etc.

[MissWhizbee]

Bla...even though there were doubts about someone being a spy, I totally think DD and a few others would have been told by Wormtail where the Potters were, because even if Wormtail tells them they are not able to reveal it to anyone else, because of the way the charm works, and I would assume that James & Lily could take care of themselves if one of their friends decided to attack them by themselves, which would be the only concern about Wormtail telling the Potters friends where they were living.

[MissWhizbee]

Oops, posted to quickly.

Also, The whole DD being at the house was really just a side note, for those that feel like he must have had a stop over, I really don't think he did.

Regardless, I think it makes sense for him to be at the MoM...

My question..Why didn't DD tell McGonagall where he would be himself? Why did she have to get that information from Hagrid? McG is his second in command, wouldn't she need to know whats up?

[Ploki]

Not sure if Hagrid and Black arrived at the same time, but they were obviously there at the same time, since Hagrid could borrow Blacks motorcycle to get Harry to Privet Drive ASAP...

I reckon Snape was there too, only future will tell though, since JKR probably is the only one who knows for sure at this point...

[Alz]

Yah, it is difficult to know exactly what the timing was - but I got the feelin they both arrived around the same time ...
Not sure Black would have stuck around with the baby for long ... he would have seen from the devastation Harry could still be in danger ...
Actually just asked some shoutbox questions and seems Hagrid is holding Harry - because Sirius asks him to hand him over .... that woudl suggest Hagrid was there first ... because Black wouldnt leave Harry in the ruins ...

[Ploki]

Yeah, I think you're right Blaise. Sirius asks Hagrid to hand over Harry cause he's his godfather, but then we know Hagrid is the one bringing Harry to Dumbledore, on Black's motorcycle. The question is why was Hagrid more appropriate?

Did they already suspect that Black was the one giving away the Potters hide out?

[Nagini]

I think they were suspecting everyone at that point, but it does make sense for them to already suspect Sirius because he was susposed to be the Secret Keeper. Would Hagrid have known that though? Dumbledore might have told him.

I wonder if Snape was there, if Hagrid saw him leave? Hagrid trusts Snape as much as Dumbledore does, so he must have a reason for it.

[Alz]

We seemed to digress slightly on the subject - which is where was Dumbledore during the attacks?

I think he must have been aware in some form or another - afterall he had a number of useful spies etc ...
I'm sure someone might have said that Dumbledore thought he had it covered and that a 'useful spy' would be in and around Voldemort - and should have intervened in some way or another - even if it was to raise the flag!

[Fortescue]

I don't think Snape was spying for Dumbledore at this time or was he? This could have been one of the things Snape did to earn Dumbledore's respect. I'm not to sure on this.

Snape was working for Dumbledore at the time. He was in his first year of teaching at Hogwarts. The attack occurred on 10/31 and the school term began on 9/1. Snape told Umbridge he'd been teaching at Hogwarts for 14 years in OotP, when Harry was 15. Harry was 15 months old when Voldemort tried to kill him, so the math works out.

Dumbledore was probably arranging for Harry life and safety. I wondered about the time thing also. Hagrid found Harry not long after the attack, as he said he just barely got Harry out on time. If that was the case, Hagrid had Harry for almost twenty-four hours. Dumbledore said in OotP, he had to decide how best to protect Harry - it all goes back to the thread about Dumbledore's plan.

He made plans for Harry, sized up Aunt Petunia, and probably contacted others who were key in "the plan," like Mrs. Figg and probably some of the Order members. I would imagine he also contacted Lupin, since he would have been devastated by his friends death, and his other friends supposed betrayal. He still had duties with the Order too. They were probably trying to verify that Voldemort was truly gone. I'm still not sure how they'd know that he was gone if there wasn't someone there at the time of the attack considering his body gone.

[Alz]

Yah see I can respect that - post attack ...
What I was inclind to ask here was what was Dumbledore doing before - during and straight after?
He dispatched Hagrid to go get Harry - so someone let him know what had happened ..
I am assuming if it was Black - that some mention of this would have been made while Sirius was around in PoA or indeed OoTP - but zip ...
So I often wonder what Dumbledore was doing - not just in a DiE aspect - just overall really ..

[Fortescue]

It's possible that Dumbledore was at the Longbottom's. The remark that Dumbledore made to Harry that Voldemort chose the half-blood and not the pure-blood could be an indication of a misplaced calculation on Dumbledore's part.

Sirius was supposed to be the Secret-Keeper for the Potter's, and was James's best friend. Dumbledore figured that the Potter's were safe and that knowing Voldemort's pureblood beliefs, that the possibility that he would attack the Longbottom's because Neville was the pureblood of the two was more likely. By the information given so far, there was not any kind of definite clues as to which boy the prophecy referred, and Dumbledore's possible assumption that it would be Neville Voldemort pursued would make sense since Voldemort respected purebloods more than half-bloods and thinking him more of a threat, would logically go after Neville. If Dumbledore was the Longbottom's Secret-Keeper then he might have been watching out over them in fear that Voldemort might come after the Longbottom's after he finished with the Potter's to make sure the prophecy was fulfilled, not knowing at the time that Voldemort had actually disappeared because of his attack on Harry.

[Alz]

You know what - that kind of makes sense!
But lets look at that another way - if Dumbledore wanted to keep anyone safe - why didnt he just take them to Hogwarts - the ultimate safe house?
I know we can sit here an unpick the plot - but things had to happen to make the story ya ya - I agree that much.
But yah - he could have been with the Longbottoms looking after them.
Now see this could also explain why the DE's went to the Longbottoms looking for information on Voldemort - because Dumbledore was there with them and then left.
They might have been even tipped off that Dumbledore was with the Longbottoms but then left in a hurry ...
I like it!

[Fortescue]

He probably didn't take them to Hogwarts because he didn't want to involve the students. Besides, it was Halloween night. The Headmaster was probably at the feast when he heard about what happened and rushed out to the Longbottom's sending Hagrid to the Potter's believing what was done was done and the Longbottom's were still at risk, especially if it wasn't immediately know that Voldemort had vanished.

[Alz]

Harry taunts Riddle in CoS that he never tried to go anywhere near Hogwarts - i really believe even Voldemort knew it was one step too far.
I dont think he would ever even consider taking Dumbledore on at Hogwarts - as such it was the perfect hiding place!
But still the initial question remains - where was Dumbledore that night?
How was he able to find out so quickly and then get Hagrid on the case of picking Harry up etc?
Will we ever find out where Dumbledore was that night - and is it relevant to the whole series ;)