View Full Version : Alarm Bells and Scars!
Tinkerbell
08-10-2004, 11:57
In GoF, when Dumbledore is trying to convince Fudge that Voldemort has indeed returned, and that Harry's scar has been warning him of the Dark Lord's presence/anger throughout the year, Fudge says:
"You'll forgive me, Dumbledore, but I've heard of a curse scar acting as an alarm bell before..."
My questions would therefore be:
Whose?! When?! Why?! How?!
Am wondering whether Dumbledore's attractive scar in the shape of the London Underground has been useful in the past to the MoM!?
Weasleyfanforever
08-10-2004, 13:24
Fudge says "You'll forgive me, Dumbledore, but I've never heard of a curse scar acting as an alarm bell before..." Just thought I would add that in there...
Tinkerbell
08-10-2004, 13:53
I've checked this in my copy of the book Wheezy, and mine doesn't show that the word never appears!
The quote I put in is exactly how it appears in my copy, so perhaps I have a rare copy which then gives a whole new meaning to the statement!
:o
I have the same as Tink, Hard cover book, 22nd edition ...
"You'll forgive me, Dumbledore, but I've heard of a curse scar acting as an alarm bell before..."
Looks like a typo but could also have been another JKR written/unwritten thing going on!
I've got a paperback version (not sure which printing), but it also says "never." The sentence wouldn't make much sense without it - if you think about in the context of the whole conversation, Fudge is trying to negate that Harry's scar pains mean anything except that Harry is insane, so he wouldn't say that he *had* heard of scars giving alarm bells before.
Weasleyfanforever
08-10-2004, 23:58
Thank you! Finally I don't feel like I am crazy! Bit I definately know that my copy has a "never" in there, so I wonder why there is the difference ...
Face value would state a typo but remeber this, the American versions were translated until OoTP - as such couldnt it just be the US publishers inserted the word because they felt it made sense?
I read the sentance and it does seems a little odd and that 'never' should be in there but why do we have multiple UK editions with the same typo and no corrections - usually these are identified and changed!
I really think Tink has stumbled across something!
Tinkerbell
16-10-2004, 08:37
I have tried to look further into this, looking on other sites about book and movie mistakes and queries over continuity within the septology, and can't find any mention of this.
I think that in a couple of weeks time I am going to send a e-mail through to JKR's site and see if we can get to the bottom of this mystery once and for all!
As I've said before, and as others have said, it could be a typo, or there really is a deeper meaning here!
I think you need to email her Publicist normally or maybe Bloomsbury ... but it would be a nice and easy one for her to clear up - and also a great one to tease people over if indeed that was the plan ...
Perhaps we could think of a few more questions for her to answer and mail them over? :)
Tinkerbell
17-10-2004, 11:02
Good idea, Bla!
Do you think it best to start a new thread with an invitation for members to submit some questions?
I read the sentance and it does seems a little odd and that 'never' should be in there but why do we have multiple UK editions with the same typo and no corrections - usually these are identified and changed!
Blaise, why do you think it odd that "never" should be in there? I think it odd that it isn't. To me, in the context of what is happening, and by the use of "forgive me," Fudge is trying to tell Dumbledore the scar doesn't mean anything and that Harry is just insane/trying to get attention.
Can you please clear up for me how you think it makes sense that the "never" should be left out?
Tinkerbell
17-10-2004, 11:38
When Fudge says this, he is intimating that he has previously heard about a curse scar acting as an alarm bell, and almost saying that there was no real evidence that this means anything at all.
To me, this indicates that at some stage in the past, someone somewhere has had a scar, which was the result of a curse - which was successful or backfired - which had in some way alerted it's owner to something, but which, in the end, did not materialise.
Thus Fudge almost says that he understands that perhaps Harry is feeling something in his scar, but that this does not particularly mean anything significant.
That is my feeling, in any event, and the reason I originally posted the thread - and it appears to be that this has sparked further controversy in the fact that some books have the word "never" and some do not, which of course puts an entirely different spin on things!!
Blaise, why do you think it odd that "never" should be in there? I think it odd that it isn't. To me, in the context of what is happening, and by the use of "forgive me," Fudge is trying to tell Dumbledore the scar doesn't mean anything and that Harry is just insane/trying to get attention.
Can you please clear up for me how you think it makes sense that the "never" should be left out?
Shoot me - it was a typo!
Geez, I was stating is seemed a little strange that we have had multiple editions of the books and in GoF we have had a few edits - but yet this one seems to continue through uncorrected :rolleyes:
Tink, I see your point now. It seems as though, if we take "alarm bell" to be a more sarcastic comment, the sentence would work out.
Either way I view it, however, it seems Fudge is saying the same thing. But that is because I am viewing an "alarm bell" as something that would give an actual warning. That could be an American interpretation, however. If we see it as something that is a false alarm, then the different sentences could be different.
Can someone from the UK clear up whether an alarm bell is something that gives an actual warning or can be an idiomatic expression that is used to describe something that was a false alarm? I think that would clear some things up for me.
Thanks!
Well my take - Alarms Bells is a saying when you are trying to make a warning - but can be used in humour as well ...
She said I had to meet the parents *alarm bells rang in head* I declind on the basis of ....
Poor example I know - but it can be used in humour and sarcasm etc ...
But in essence I agree with your point - grammatically speaking it seems that the never should be in there - what compels me is that it is still in UK editions through various versions ....
Kreacher
20-10-2004, 12:44
O.K. give me the page number, I'm in the U.K. and I'm sure mine has the "never".
GoF Hard back version - Page 613 'The Parting of the ways' - first sentance - have fun looking ;)
In GoF, when Dumbledore is trying to convince Fudge that Voldemort has indeed returned, and that Harry's scar has been warning him of the Dark Lord's presence/anger throughout the year, Fudge says:
"You'll forgive me, Dumbledore, but I've heard of a curse scar acting as an alarm bell before..."
Okay, so let's take a look at it both ways:
You'll forgive me, Dumbledore, but I've heard of a curse scar acting as an alarm bell before . . .
Given the situation, Fudge's general demeanor, etc. - for this sentence to make any sense, it would have to be sarcasm on the part of Fudge. He would be saying, you'll forgive me, but I've heard of a curse scar telling us something that wasn't true before - an alarm bell in this case would be a false alarm. That still leaves us with Fudge not believing that Harry's scar is actually telling anything, but leaves it open for discussion as to whose scar was giving false alarms in the past . . .
*******
You'll forgive me, Dumbledore, but I've never heard of a curse scar acting as an alarm bell before . . .
In this sentence, Fudge is discounting that Harry's scar could actually be giving a warning and that he's never heard of it happening.
Does this make sense?
Ohh yah - it makes great sense ....
But what seems apparant that if this was a typo - it was never and as far as I am aware still hasnt been corrected in any UK versions!
We have seen JKR make mistakes - we have seen publishers make mistakes - and they are always corrected in later editions ...
So - we have two ways of looking at that ...
a) It was just thought we would all see it didnt make sense and add the word ourselves
b) It was intended and the US translated versions are reading the sentance very differently ...
While I agree gramatically the never should be in there - I just question why it was never corrected ...
Tinkerbell
12-12-2004, 04:30
Given the situation, Fudge's general demeanor, etc. - for this sentence to make any sense, it would have to be sarcasm on the part of Fudge. He would be saying, you'll forgive me, but I've heard of a curse scar telling us something that wasn't true before - an alarm bell in this case would be a false alarm. That still leaves us with Fudge not believing that Harry's scar is actually telling anything, but leaves it open for discussion as to whose scar was giving false alarms in the past . . .
The way I have always seen this is that in the past, Fudge has heard someone claim something because they have received a 'warning' through a scar they have. Whether or not this claim was substantiated or not is irrelevant, I am now more interested in knowing whether this was linked with Dumbledore's scar on his knee!
You know it as well - for JKR to make a mention of it means that it is kinda important or at least has a reason ...
Going back to Boing's point about the sarcasm - what if indeed Dumbledore tried to say or do something based on his knee scar and it proved wrong?
Then indeed Fudge could give this sarcastic response :p
LOL - It so looks like a typo I know - I just love to look for things that arent there :o
Hermione
05-01-2005, 20:19
Perhaps Fudge has heard of a scar acting like an alarm bell, and he prefers not to remember.
Well - I suppose a denial statement would work - but the way he comes out with it would be contra to someone trying to supress that?
Like the idea thou :D
*insert evil grin* dredging up old stuff is my favourite thing to do when i am here alone *insert another evil grin*
My copy of GoF definately does not have the word 'never' in that sentence. Cool, huh!!
My take on it...Fudge has heard something of the Death Eater's mark, and thinks nothing of it. Perhaps he came across a DE who's little mark was burning and had to fend Fudge off or something along those lines...
Or yes, perhaps Dumbledore received his scar in a battle against evil, that rose again but he had no proof of it, and the evil disappeared, waiting to make its move...
ar har har....alarm bells are ringing in my head, saying STOP STOP STOP!!
Kash hun - who do Oz use as publishers?
It would be interesting if they arent using Bloomsbury - that would mean we have two different, independant publishers using the same sentance ;)
Blaise, all my copies are published by Bloomsbury, I purchased the first three through Booktopia, the fourth is second hand from Ebay and the OotP my mother bought for me from somewhere, but yes, all Bloomsbury. Maybe I'll email them and ask them about it?
vBulletin® v3.7.2, Copyright ©2000-2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.