A Moment's Hesitation ...

[Alz]

..Riddle said, "I can speak to snakes. I found out when we've been to the country on trips - they find me, they whisper to me. Is that normal for a Wizard?"
Harry could tell that he had withheld mention of this strangest power until that moment, determined to impress.
"It is unusal," said Dumbledore, after a moment's hesitation, "but not unheard of."
His tone was casual but his eyes moved curiously over Riddle's face. They stood for a moment, man and boy, staring at each other. Then the handshake was broken; Dumbledore was at the door.

This kinda struck at me - was Dumbledore employing Legillimans against Riddle?
Was he seeing something in Riddle's face that reminded him of something or someone even?
Dumbledore seemed curious at this point - even though he had found most of the information he wanted in conversation with Riddle ... I just wonder what Dumbledore was finding so curious?

[Fortescue]

I'd assume that Dumbledore's first reaction would be to look deeper into the boy before him after Riddle had just confessed he was a Parcelmouth, considering it is a talent that very few wizards ever possessed. I would think he'd want to take a little stroll through Riddle's mind after that confession. It is never mentioned in the story how rare it is the find someone who can talk to snakes, but I'd imagine Dumbledore's curiousity would have piqued, not to mention the fact that Riddle demanded that he make his trip to Diagon Alley alone and the box of stolen enchanted stuff Dumbledore found in Riddle's wardrobe. I think he had more then enough reason to use Occlumency to see what made the boy tick!

[kaz]

It has been hinted that Dumbledore uses Occlumency on Harry from time to time, so I am assuming (like many teachers) he wants to guage what is going on in their heads...one to see if they are telling the truth, two to see if they are planning a bit of a rebellious attack and finally to see if they are going to attempt to conquer the entire wizarding world and whoever else they can take with them...:rolleyes:

Dumbledore had suspisions about Riddle before he came to Hogwarts, and was intregued and at the same time worried about his behaviour. I'd say he was trying to find out about Voldemort and why he behaved as he did.

[Alz]

I certainly dont disagree with both your points - I think he would have taken the chance to have a quick look into that head ...
But also notice he scans the face looking curious - almost like he recognises him or see's something in the face ...
I dont doubt the use of Occlumency but just looking for expanded thoughts as to what maybe he was seeing in Riddles face?

[Fortescue]

I'm trying to put this thought together, so bear with me :)

You mentioned Dumbledore looking into Riddle's face, and I get the feeling you are associating the look to something that Dumbledore might recognize in Riddle's face, a familiarity to someone or something? I don't think Dumbledore knew Tom Riddle Sr. and Tom Jr. was supposed to look like his father, and that takes my mind to the fact that everyone tells Harry that he looks like his father, yet Riddle also told Harry there was a strong resemblance between he and Harry. I know Dumbledore couldn't have looked at Tom because he saw a resemblence to anyone. I'd assume that would only leave him peeking into Riddle's mind. I don't think Dumbledore can look into someone's eyes and tell whether they will grow to be evil or not!!

They stood for a moment, man and boy, staring at each other. Then the handshake was broken; Dumbledore was at the door.

I like this part of the above quote. It's as if there is a sense of foreshadowing Dumbledore and Voldemort's future anomosity.

[Alz]

Actually at the back of my mind I thought he might have seen something that reminded him of Grindelwald.
Not sure what makes me say that - I know he couldnt have recognised Riddle Snr or Merope Gaunt - and as you said there was no James or even Harry Potter at the time.
I got to thinking that the recognition could have been Grindelwald - who I think was around at that time and we have no background on that guy so far.
I just assumed that Dumbledore was tracking and had dealing with Grindelwald and yeah ... wild but that was my first reactions.
I think couple that with looking into Riddle's young mind - he might just have seen something - maybe just enough to know what Riddle was capable of.

[cagedcactus]

Or maybe that knowledge took DD straight to a belief that Tom will turn out to be a copy of Slytherin. Salazar had his beliefs. Strong beliefs.
Maybe that momemt struck DD when he realised how similar Tom was with slytherin.
Maybe DD thought that even with those strengths and abilities, Tom may turn to light and become a great value to Witchcraft society.
Because our choices define us, not our abilities.
But DD's fears were right. TOM was already evil, before even starting school.

[halliemei]

Seems to me that he might have thought of Slytherin himself. Parseltongue is a very unique gift. The only known ones to us are Salazar, Tom/Voldemort, and Harry Potter. There are some remarkable similiarities (which we know Harry hasn't been born yet -- or even James), but I wonder if that face (which is on the huge statue in the Chamber of Secrets) is familiar to DD. He would know as much as possible about the founders, I would think. I'm sure that there are pictures/portraits of Slytherin (and the others for that matter -- but not important to this thread). Perhaps Dumbledore knew when Tom was 11 that he was the Heir of Slytherin.

[Fortescue]

Seems to me that he might have thought of Slytherin himself. Parseltongue is a very unique gift. The only known ones to us are Salazar, Tom/Voldemort, and Harry Potter. There are some remarkable similiarities (which we know Harry hasn't been born yet -- or even James), but I wonder if that face (which is on the huge statue in the Chamber of Secrets) is familiar to DD. He would know as much as possible about the founders, I would think. I'm sure that there are pictures/portraits of Slytherin (and the others for that matter -- but not important to this thread). Perhaps Dumbledore knew when Tom was 11 that he was the Heir of Slytherin.


I think we discussed this in another thread, but it seems appropriate here.

The birth of all witches and wizards and even muggles with the ability to do magic are recorded in the book at Hogwarts. When they become of age they then receive their letter to attend Hogwarts. I would assume then that the Hogwarts book and magic quill are a sort of book of wizard geneology. It records the history of all descendants of all magic families and I would assume, since Dumbledore went to Tom at the orphanage, he had prior knowledge of Tom's ancestry.

We only got a glimpse of information about the book and magic quill and the fact that if a muggle like Hermione, whose family know nothing about magic gets a letter from Hogwarts it is personally delivered by someone from the school so they can explain what Hogwarts is to the parents. I can only guess that's why Dumbledore went to see Tom, but maybe the greatest wizard of all times had other reasons for making the trip personally. We saw from Harry's experience that Hagrid was sent to get him and help him get his school things, not Dumbledore himself.

I think Dumbledore had prior knowledge of Riddle's ancestry and probably was the one who told Tom he was the last living descendant of Salizar Slytherin. How else would he have known otherwise. He had no contact with the Gaunts, not that we were made aware of, not until he killed the last one anyway.

If Dumbledore knew of Tom's ancestry that day he went to the orphanage, then found out Tom could speak Parseltongue, I'd imagine that would be why he stopped and stared at him. If he was taking a peek into the future Voldemort's mind, I wonder if we will ever find out what it was he saw?

[Alz]

Some great thoughts and data there Forte - once again!
Interesting more so given that right - Dumbledore would have had some knowledge of what he was dealing with when he visited.
Before I continue, a digression I suppose - but could Grindelwald have been inside the Slytherin bloodlines?
If so, with him now removed and no apparent successor - and if Dumbledore knew that Dark Lords seem to emerge from Salazar's bloodline - and that Riddle Jnr was one of the last - you would have thought Dumbledore really would have been suspicious from the start and definitely more inclined to watch him at Hogwarts!

[Fortescue]

I like the idea of the Hogwarts book and your mention of Grindewald.

If Dumbledore knew about Riddle's connection to Slytherin and maybe Grindewald, maybe Dumbledore had visited Riddle before at the orphanage. We know he can become invisible without a cloak. Maybe he visited Riddle on the sly from time to time in the same way we have discussed his possible visits to Harry when he was young. How else would Dumbledore have known how the Dursley's treated Harry over the years as was revealed by what Dumbledore said to the Dursley's in HBP?

Back to Riddle - if Dumbledore knew the connection between Riddle and Slytherin in advance and Grindelwald was part of Slytherin's bloodline, maybe Grindewald was an uncle or something. We know Voldemort was around 70ish, so if he killed the Riddle's and the last of the Gaunts when he was only 16, that would only mean that Dumbledore faced Grindewald about the time that Tom Riddle was first invited to Hogwarts. If Riddle's visit to the chamber occurred when he was 16 as was noted by the diary and that was around 50 years before Harry went into the chamber, then that would mean all those things occurred around the same time. Riddle's invite to Hogwarts, Dumbledore's defeat of Grindewald, and within a few years, Riddle's trip into the chamber. I think any of these events that Dumbledore could tie to the young, unknowing Tom Riddle in the orphanage would have made Dumbledore take a peek inside the boy.

Just a bit off the topic, but I wonder, since we only saw a glimpse of information about the Hogwarts book and magic quill, if Harry will visit the book some time in book 7? It seems like a good place to get answers in regards to the who, what and when questions we have discussed.

[Alz]

Well you have to wonder don't you - if that connection is as complicated and delicate as you have suggested above.
Riddle/Voldemort seems to have gotten a lot of strange information with no real apparent source ... I mean horcruxes and the Chamber are to name a few that he seems to have come across with no real obvious leads.
Since Voldemort didn't emerge and lead the DE's till a few years after he left Hogwarts - it is plausible that the big battle between Dumbledore and Grindelwald occurred in the same timeframe, although I thought it was pre Riddle birth ... not sure why I assumed that ... ummm ..
But it would help answer how Riddle got that information he seemed to act on!

Drifting back to the starter - I still cant help but feel Dumbledore was scanning your Riddle and seeing what he had become - I share the same opinion as Forte and he had seen Riddle since birth and before this moment - just not directly!
Maybe if he did draw the link between Grindelwald and Riddle, might explain why it was him that did the magical introduction!

[secret seeker]

Wasnt dumbledore just a teacher when he visited Riddle in the orphanage, yet when Harry was to go to hogwarts he was Headmaster, so he may have just delegated the task to Hagrid.
It does seem strange now I think on it, why didnt Dumbledore go to Harry at the Hut on the rock?. Surely he could have explained better than Hagrid, and wouldnt he be interested to see Harry given circumstances?.
Im sure Dumbledore used Occulmency on Riddle just before he left ( never thought of that ) but what could he have been looking for in his face?, as Fortescue said, he cant have been looking for recognition of Harry/James or Voldemort, it must have been Salazar or Grindelwald, but if it was Salazar ( more likely ), that means d.d must know what Salazar really looked like, but would the monkey-like statue in the C.o.S. be his reference point?, Riddle doesnt look like a monkey ( Marvolo did have the look of a powerfully aged monkey according to Harry ) so would he have been looking for Salazar?. If d.d knew from the Hogwarts quill that Riddle was a descendant of Salazar wouldnt he have taken steps to ensure the C.o.S. couldnt be opened, especially given his encounter with Riddle at the Orphanage and what Mrs cole divulged.....

[nymphadora]

I think Dumbledore had prior knowledge of Riddle's ancestry and probably was the one who told Tom he was the last living descendant of Salizar Slytherin. How else would he have known otherwise. He had no contact with the Gaunts, not that we were made aware of, not until he killed the last one anyway.

If Dumbledore knew of Tom's ancestry that day he went to the orphanage, then found out Tom could speak Parseltongue, I'd imagine that would be why he stopped and stared at him. If he was taking a peek into the future Voldemort's mind, I wonder if we will ever find out what it was he saw?

I also believe that DD had knowledge of Riddle's ancestry, but we know that DD did not tell him that he was a member of the Slytherin family because:
HBP pg 337 UK edition:
"How soon Riddle learned that the famous founder of the house could talk to snakes, I do not know -- perhaps that very evening. The knowledge can only have excited him and increased his sense of self-importance."
So if DD had told him he was a descendant of Slytherin, he probably would have already known that Salazar could talk to snakes.

The thing that caught my attention about the original quote was: "I found out when we've been to the country on trips - they find me, they whisper to me."

Isn't that unusual? Snakes never sought Harry out, and when he learned that he could speak to snakes was in the zoo. They didn't seek him out, Harry was just looking at it and it probably would not have talked to Harry if Harry had not spoken to it first. Maybe this is why Dumbledore looked at Riddle strangely... he was wondering what kind of wizard had such a strong control over snakes, even for a parselmouth.

[Alz]

Bit of wide thinking here based on that 'They find me' comment - perhaps that is how Riddle was being influenced by Grindelwald maybe?
I mean, what struck me is that is Grindelwald had been in contact with Riddle - Tom would have been better understanding what he was - whereas if you have this snake come and talk to you - sure it is freaky but could also help conceal there was a person behind it?
Once again foundation for fact is missing but just thought it would be interesting to know why a snake would seek him out and try and talk to him!

[secret seeker]

I wonder if the snakes he did talk to told Riddle SPECIFICALLY that they Looked for him, not just stumbled upon him?