Is Aberforth a Death Eater?

[Fortescue]

Okay, a bit of wild spec here :)

We have seen very little about Aberforth throughout the books. We know he is Dumbledore's brother, yet we have never seen them together in any context. We know Aberforth is in the Order of the Phoenix, but could he have been one of the unnamed Death Eaters in the graveyard in GoF?

We know he is undercover in the Order, the only knowledge of him even being in the Order is the picture that Mad Eye showed Harry in Grimmauld Place. We didn't see him actively doing anything for the Order in OotP or HBP. Could it be he is undercover within the Death Eaters and one of the unnamed Death Eaters in the graveyard the night Voldemort got his body back?

[gumshoe]

Well, sure, now that I think about it...There is the Sirius/Regulus parallel we could draw from, isn't there?
I kind of wondered myself -- after reading book 6, I tried to turn the eavesdropping scenario around a bit, but I don't remember being able to (you know, seeing if Snape caught Aberforth).

[Alz]

I suppose my biggest arguments about this theory would be as Gumshoe pointed out - if Aberforth was a DE - he would have been very keen to listen in to what was being said and feed it back himself - and he certainly wouldnt have ejected Snape from the scene.
I mean - I cant dismiss it either - JKR kept Aberforth well hidden in detail to cater for the big reveal of the eavesdropper - all we really knew before that was he was slapped for things to do with goats :D
You know - I cant say either way because lack of evidence either way supports it - but inclination would err to the side that he ejected a DE listening to something that was one of the most important things the Dark Lord could ever hear.

[Fortescue]

My thoughts behind this thread were originally that Aberforth was a spy for Dumbledore. He has a nasty disposition, and sure, he was the one who caught Snape eavesdropping on Dumbledore and Trelawney, but we have been led to believe that Snape is a double agent, working for both Voldemort and Dumbledore.

Couldn't Aberforth be an agent for his brother and be a part of Voldemort's organization? If Snape was caught by Aberforth, it could be that Aberforth was the one who talked Snape into converting to Dumbledore's side. We never heard the full story behind Aberforth's confrontation with Snape at the Hog's Head. Maybe Aberforth came upon Snape that night in a way that couldn't be looked upon by Voldemort as suspicious.

Another possibility is that Aberforth went to Snape after that night and asked Snape to get him into the Death Eaters. There has to be a reason why Dumbledore and Aberforth have never been seen together although Hogwarts and the Hog's Head are only a matter of minutes apart. If Aberforth is in fact a spy within the Death Eaters, it would not be something that many people would know about!!!

[kashlie]

i need clarification...have we been told for certain that Aberforth is DD'd brother and works at the Hog's Head?
Was he at Dumbledore's funeral?
What if he and Dumbledore are actually identical twins and there is now a new bar man at the hog's head? :eek:

[Fortescue]

i need clarification...have we been told for certain that Aberforth is DD'd brother and works at the Hog's Head?
Was he at Dumbledore's funeral?
What if he and Dumbledore are actually identical twins and there is now a new bar man at the hog's head? :eek:

JKR confirmed that the barman at the Hog's Head is indeed Dumbledore's brother and he was at Dumbledore's funeral, but Harry doesn't realize that the barman at the Hog's Head is Aberforth. If he knew his name, he would know who he is; JKR hadn't intended anyone to guess her little clues about Aberforth so she must maintain Harry's ignorance of who the barman really is in order to use the story line she had originally planned. That is why I think Aberforth will become a bigger part of book seven as she has not enlightened Harry yet.

If Aberforth were a Death Eater the location he works would be very advantageous. Where would a bunch of scheming Death Eaters go in Hogsmeade; the Hog's Head of course. He has the disposition and the location to get a lot of information about the darker side of the wizarding world.

If Albus and Aberforth were twins, I think it would be a bit obvious to everyone! As it is, most people don't seem to know they are even brothers which makes the entire DE spy thing possible.

[gumshoe]

We've also got to wonder how long he's worked there. If he looks something like Dumbledore, and is his brother, I suppose it's reasonable to assume they're close in age. Has Aberforth worked there at least for, oh, fifty years? I've wondered (on other threads) if Riddle was sneaking into Hogsmeade when he was a teen -- there's that narrow window of time wherein he would have figured out how to make a Horcrux (btw his conversation w/ Slughorn and his 17th birthday -- 3-4 months at the most) -- did Aberforth have anything to do with it, telling him how? Or maybe just was privy to a meeting btw Riddle and Grindelwald? Or is there something else equally wild and speccy?

One thing I do like about this idea, whether it's right or wrong, is that it would invert some relationships: Dumbledore's own brother working against him, and Voldemort's top spy being more loyal to Dumbledore than his own family. It meshes with the family ideas JK has introduced; Harry's true family are the people he's accepted and embraced (and those who have treated him the same) unconditionally and because of their inherent goodness. Voldemort's "true family" are the people he's chosen to surround himself with, while rejecting (and, oh yeah, killing) his blood family. There's other treatment of family and blood, such as Hagrid's brother, whom Hagrid must accept because he's family, and Sirius/Regulus, as I mentioned before, and James & Sirius, who were closer than brothers.

So as far as that theme goes, Aberforth being on Voldemort's side wouldn't be a surprising twist to me.
gumshoe

[Alz]

My thoughts behind this thread were originally that Aberforth was a spy for Dumbledore. He has a nasty disposition, and sure, he was the one who caught Snape eavesdropping on Dumbledore and Trelawney, but we have been led to believe that Snape is a double agent, working for both Voldemort and Dumbledore.

Couldn't Aberforth be an agent for his brother and be a part of Voldemort's organization? If Snape was caught by Aberforth, it could be that Aberforth was the one who talked Snape into converting to Dumbledore's side. We never heard the full story behind Aberforth's confrontation with Snape at the Hog's Head. Maybe Aberforth came upon Snape that night in a way that couldn't be looked upon by Voldemort as suspicious.

Another possibility is that Aberforth went to Snape after that night and asked Snape to get him into the Death Eaters. There has to be a reason why Dumbledore and Aberforth have never been seen together although Hogwarts and the Hog's Head are only a matter of minutes apart. If Aberforth is in fact a spy within the Death Eaters, it would not be something that many people would know about!!!

To be honest here - Dumbledore already had a spy that was inside the DE's and wouldnt have needed another.
I dont think that Aberforth is a DE - it just wouldnt make any sense.
JKR kept him concealed and info less based on the moment it was disclosed that he ejected Snape as the eavesdropper.
I dont think there is anything else to this character. I do think however he isnt gone - I wonder if he can give some background to Harry on his brother - afterall JKR has kept much of Dumbledore concealed as well - and it could be time for Harry to learn some things about Dumbledore - enter DiE :D

[Vold. E. Mort]

"To be honest here - Dumbledore already had a spy that was inside the DE's and wouldnt have needed another.
I dont think that Aberforth is a DE - it just wouldnt make any sense."

Always spy on your spies, it keeps them honest.

[Alz]

"To be honest here - Dumbledore already had a spy that was inside the DE's and wouldnt have needed another.
I dont think that Aberforth is a DE - it just wouldnt make any sense."

Always spy on your spies, it keeps them honest.
It's his brother!!!! :rolleyes:
I mean come on - when you read HBP didnt you get the general overtones from JKR that Dumbledore's biggest flaw was trusting people - even those that seem not to deserve it?
Are you telling me that as well as sending his own brother to be a DE spy as well as Snape - he spies on his own brother?
If this is the case - I win the DiE argument hands down ;)

[Fortescue]

To be honest here - Dumbledore already had a spy that was inside the DE's and wouldnt have needed another.
I dont think that Aberforth is a DE - it just wouldnt make any sense.
JKR kept him concealed and info less based on the moment it was disclosed that he ejected Snape as the eavesdropper.
I dont think there is anything else to this character. I do think however he isnt gone - I wonder if he can give some background to Harry on his brother - afterall JKR has kept much of Dumbledore concealed as well - and it could be time for Harry to learn some things about Dumbledore - enter DiE :D

Yes, Dumbledore had a spy inside the Death Eaters, he also has a spy inside the Werewolf community and who knows where else, but as we have discussed countless times, Voldemort chooses what information to give to whom and never gives away all his secrets to any of his followers. A second spy inside the organization might kindle more information that is not available to Snape. It makes sense when you look at Dumbledore's remarks to Harry and his confidence in the fact that Voldemort doesn't tell any one of his Death Eaters everything. But he might tell two spies enough to disclose things that can be tied together to make the missing pieces fit. How else would Dumbledore know that if he didn't have more then one spy learning Voldemort's secrets?

I simply feel there has to be more to Aberforth then the fact he chose bartending as a lifelong career because he enjoys the company. ;)

[Alz]

I think the biggest argument against your point would be blood on Dumbledore's hands. Isnt it enough he let's one person he claimes to have trust in risk their life to get information without putting his own blood out there for a possible same fate?
Look at it this way - Lupin has a grudge and reason to want to spy on Greyback - Snape owes Dumbledore for giving him a path to follow away from the Death Eaters and Voldemort - well in Snape's case it goes a lot further but you get the pic.
I dont think for a second Aberforth is done - he still has a role in the conclusion of the series - but I think it is too late in the day to make having Aberforth a DE worth while. JKR is wrapping things up - not spawning new mysteries ...
As I said - IMHO only :)

[Vold. E. Mort]

It's his brother!!!! :rolleyes:
I mean come on - when you read HBP didnt you get the general overtones from JKR that Dumbledore's biggest flaw was trusting people - even those that seem not to deserve it?
Are you telling me that as well as sending his own brother to be a DE spy as well as Snape - he spies on his own brother?
If this is the case - I win the DiE argument hands down ;)


Your mistake here is that you assume the brother is the one being watched. Perhaps Dumbledore still questions Snape's loyalty? Ignoring what he says to Harry about trusting him; isn't it possible on some level that Snape's past is still a sticking point? No matter how reformed a person claims to be, there is always a chance.. And, since Snape is such an advanced occulumen, having a first hand account of his actions by your own flesh and blood would be the only way to be sure your spy is really "your" spy.. I'm not doubting Snape's loyalty here, I fully expect to find a smiling Snape, Harry and Dumbledore at the end of this journey. I'm simply stating that with all the intricate levels of intrigue that JKR weaves so beautifully, this is not that far fetched.

[Alz]

If Dumbledore ever questioned Snape - he did it personally and took it to the grave.
He was adamant - to everyone - that his trust for Snape was complete.
If you read the hospital scene post mortem for Dumbledore - you will see all the other people close to him saying the same thing.
And most of all - it was written time and time again that Dumbledore's trust - Dumbledore's need to see the best in people - some people saw that as a huge weakness in Dumbledore - but Dumbledore was respected by pretty much everyone - so you can say he is a good judge of character.

[SnarkologyMajor]

Whether or not Aberforth is a deatheater, J.K.R. certainly heats things up with her clue that he may have Slytherin's locket.

-(US HBP pg.245) One was very tall and thin; squinting through his rainwashed glasses Harry recognized the barman who worked in the other Hogsmeade pub, the Hog's Head. As Harry, Ron, and Hermione drew closer, the barman drew his cloak more tightly around his neck and walked away, leaving the shorter man to fumble with something in his arms.

-(US HBP pg.246) "You took that from Sirius's house," said Harry, who was almost nose to nose with Mundungus...

-(US OOTP pg. 116) ...also a heavy locket that none of them could open..

-(US OOTP pg.83) "Sirius?" said Mundungus, who did not appear to have paid any attention to this conversation, but had been closely examining an empty goblet. "This solid silver mate?"
"Yes," said Sirius, surveying it with distaste. "Finest fifteenth-century goblin wrought silver, embossed with the Black family crest."
"That'd come off, though," muttered Mundungus.

Of course, this is just my interpretation of this particular trail of befuddlement! I must admit looking at it from the perspective that Aberforth is evil wasn't one I had considered. I hit a wall when looking from the other perspective, since that would seem to indicate that Albus knew the locket in the cave was a fake. My daughter pointed out that Albus told Harry he wasn't sure which horcrux they were going after. Any ideas would be appreciated since I just gave myself a headache! In J.K.R.'s TLC/Mugglenet interview she said her favorite member of the Order of the Phoenix was someone Harry(we) has seen but not officially met yet. I thought she was referring to Aberforth, but maybe not?