Blood of thy enemy forcibly taken...

[Nagini]

In GoF Voldemort uses Harry in his plans to restore himself. As we all know, Wormtail wanted Voldemort to use just any wizard and Voldemort did say that it could work that way, but he wanted Harry.

I thought we could speculate here why he wanted Harry instead of any other wizard and if it was for the same reason that cause the gleam in Dumbledores eyes when Harry told him about it. Are both Voldemort and Dumbledore aware of some magic that would cause issues later on because Voldemort used Harry as the enemy or just Dumbledore? Could this be old magic at work again and what are/will be the consequences of this?

[Tinkerbell]

I guess it was because Voldemort thought that if he used any old wizard and the re-birthing would work, that by using Harry because of their connection, this would strengthen the magic involved. Agree that there is a possibility that Voldemort thought that by using Harry's blood he would then be 'immune' to what happened when he tried to kill Harry as a baby, and also when he was 'attached' to Quirrel and it caused Quirrel's death.

[Kingsley]

I think that he was thinking he would be immune to touching Harry and he thought it would be a good connection as far as the prophecy and love the irony--the thought of coming back with the blood of your prophecized enemy would say alot to the dark lord's history

[Nagini]

Yes I agree with both of you, but why then was Dumbledore so pleased about it? He examined Harry's wound and asked what Voldemort did.

Here is the couple of paragraphs from that section I am referring to.

"He said my blood would make him stronger than if he'd used someone else's," Harry told Dumbledore. "He said the protection my - my mother left in me - he'd have it, too. And he was right - he could touch me without hurting himself, he touched my face."

For a fleeting instant, Harry thought he saw a gleam of something like triumph in Dumbledore's eyes. But next second, Harry was sure he had imagined it, for Dumbledore had returned to his seat behind the desk, he looked as old and weary as Harry had ever seen him.

So can we take from this that Voldemort's point of view was that using Harry would make him stronger but did he mean magically do you think or just physically?

Dumbledore obviously knows something - perhaps there is something in Lily's blood and that it came from Harry means that Voldemort cannot make himself immortal which is what he will be working towards again?

[Tonks]

Yes, I agree that he used Harry because it would make him able to touch him, and no longer provide Harry with the protection his mother left in him.

However, I also think it may have been a type of "in your face" move. Voldemort probably thought that, in addition to strengthening him, this would weaken Harry, even if only psychologically.

Still, to contradict myself, at that point, Voldemort was not planning on letting Harry get away alive. Maybe this could have been used as a future "in your face" to Dumbledore, when he found out that Voldemort was back and had killed Harry and used him to help him return to power.

[Alz]

I think it may have been a pride thing for Voldemort - he would like to have re-birthed on the blood of the person that nearly killed him - it would restore his pride and re-affirm his position with the DE's and his enemies ....
But I am also sensitive to the fact that he must also have guessed that Harry had protection in him as well - so this blood would serve to enhance his own, make him more powerful etc ... and by him touching Harry he seemed to have felt he was justified in his call ...

Now Dumbledore - that is a lot more tricky for me to answer ...
If you adopt a logical thinking you will point towards that Dumbledore knows there is something in Harry's blood that the Dark Lord wont like - something that could make him weaker in battle or gradually wear him down ... so yeah smug face adopted for a second ...

On the other hand, well it doesn't bear thinking about :)

[Lily]

Maybe the gleam in Dumbledore's eye was more like a quiet victory - in a weird way. I mean, Dumbledore had always realised that Harry has this ancient form of magic, bestowed to him from his mother, something that Voldemort overlooked. Something that Voldemort didnt see as being important. Maybe Dumbledore felt that how that Voldemort had acknowledged that the love that Harry's mother gave Harry when she sacrificed her life for him, it was Voldemort sort of acknowledging the fact that love does exist and it is much stronger than any magic that he could ever practice. And maybe Dumbledore sees this as a victory in a way. He has always refused to kill Voldemort - even though he has the power to do so, maybe it's because he wants Voldemort to be able to learn a lesson, and as corny as this may sound, a lesson of love.

Maybe the acknowledgment the love given to Harry from his mother being so important (and thus that is why he wanted to have it in his rebirth) it is the beginning of Voldemort's relisation of love.

I know this sounds incredibly corny. Sorry *blushes*

[Alz]

I think the sacrifice of Lily only allowed Harry to live ....
As much as the sacrifice allowed Dumbledore to incant something that meant the blood of another family member would afford him protection when there and away from Hogwarts - I dont think it was Lily that did the real thing there - that was something Dumbledore put in place.
The question is I suppose what else could be in the blood?
The ultimate reason for this was to afford Harry protection - it meant that Voldemort couldnt touch him - well now he can.
So Dumbledore should have been a little upset that a large protection for Harry was now gone - but he has one of his 'looks' - this means either he is happy that protection is no longer there - or he knows of something else in Harry's blood that isnt apparant to us yet ...

[Boing]

What if the blood has something else in it? Wait, are we in speculation thread? Okay.

So, what if there was something in Harry's blood that Voldemort wanted? It's a good point that he thought Harry was going to die shortly after having the blood taken, so why would he want that protection removed? What if, like other people have speculated (in and out of the books) - part of Voldemort was transferred to Harry the night of the curse and Voldemort is trying to get it back?

Perhaps what he might have gotten back was what made Dumbledore a bit triumphant . . . maybe it won't do what Voldemort thinks, but will make him vulnerable to another kind of attack . . .

[catchthesnitch]

Perhaps there's an incompatibility factor here.

You know, like blood types or Rhesus factors. Maybe the "love" that flows through Harry via Lily will ultimately cause some sort of "allergic" reaction in Voldemort. Like a ticking time bomb. That's why maybe Dumbledore gave the wry smile.

Dumbledore knows that by using Harry's blood Voldemort's causing his own downfall.

Maybe Harry doesn't have to do anything at all to vanquish Voldemort and have the prophesy be fulfilled.

Maybe, with the blood sacrifice, Harry's already done it and its just a matter of time before the poison goes to work.

[Nagini]

What if the blood has something else in it? Wait, are we in speculation thread? Okay.

So, what if there was something in Harry's blood that Voldemort wanted? It's a good point that he thought Harry was going to die shortly after having the blood taken, so why would he want that protection removed? What if, like other people have speculated (in and out of the books) - part of Voldemort was transferred to Harry the night of the curse and Voldemort is trying to get it back?

Perhaps what he might have gotten back was what made Dumbledore a bit triumphant . . . maybe it won't do what Voldemort thinks, but will make him vulnerable to another kind of attack . . .

Now that is a good point you make Boing - nice one! :)

Yes of course, Voldemort wasn't planning on Harry living to tell all to Dumbledore and he wasn't planning on Harry being around to have the same sort of magic in his blood that Voldemort will have not that he has taken back what was transferred to Harry that fateful night.

Could this then be the power that the Dark Lord knows not do you think?

[Boing]

Nagini, I like the idea that this is the power the Dark Lord knows not. Very interesting.

CTS - I really want to think that there will be more to the showdown than just a slow death and all they have to do is stay out of Voldemort's way. I'd love for the face-to-face interaction, etc., so I'm voting for something more along the lines of vulnerability, not allergy.

[Kingsley]

I agree that it wont be more of a blood allergy thing because that sounds too muggle like--
What if this blood transference was like a two way radio--what if everytime Harry felt a strong enotion--Voldemort actually felt it--next book when a Weasley dies--and Harry gets upset about it--what if we see the panic it caused V--to finally have love in his blood but it also masks his enemy's love :cool:

[Alz]

I wonder, if the 'thing' he got back inside that blood was a little more humanity?
We know that Voldemort had become something barely human - what if when he took the blood he also took another step back toward humanity - and as such vulnerable?
Dumbledore's look still worries me greatly - the guy just isn't right sometimes ...

[Jenelle]

I think that although their might very well be something in DD's expression, I believe that he was just giving Harry a reassuring gesture, to give him some hope-he wants Harry to win the fight with Voldemort(I think) but he also wants the prophecy to be fulfilled as well.
So I guess what I'm saying is that maybe DD is happy that he is back and perhaps that their is something in the blood that will help the good side, but also sad because he is back and he knows that Harry will be the target from then till the end.

[Kingsley]

No actually DD has only shown remorse in book 5--the rest of the series he is pretty stoic
If Dumbledore was hurt that much by the knowledge he received when Voldemort took Harry's blood he would have shared it--
Even in book 5 Dumbledore still did not disclose all of the information about the prophecy to Harry
One thing we can be sure of is that whatever situation the taking of the blood has caused--Dumbledore already knows of it :mad:

[Boing]

I still like the idea that there was something in the blood that makes Voldemort more vulnerable. Again, looking at the theory that there is much more to the prophecy than we are privy to, I think it makes sense that Dumbledore can feel triumphant - perhaps this was a part of the prophecy.

What if the exchange of blood signifies the "marking as an equal?" We have all assumed that the mark was the lightning bolt and the transference of some powers from Voldemort to Harry, but what if it has just happened here - they share the same blood now and are considered equals . . .

[Alz]

The first effects of this blood transfer seem to be a huge negative ... as in Harry looses a major security feature ... on face value does this mean Dumbledore is happy at this?

So - we are onto speculation and the premise that in fact it was a good thing that this happened - 2 ways of looking at that as well - one DiE and one unknown quality.
If the effect was to take away a magical protection - does that mean it also took away a magical property of Voldemort?
Could this yet again be another sign of Voldemort becoming more human?

[Boing]

Perhaps the thing that Voldemort did that seemed to have worked in conquering death was take away that part of him that could either feel human emotion or that part of him that was Muggle. Either way, that would mean that Harry has now infused him with one of those properties that he tried to get rid of before (and that seemed to have worked).

Unfortunately, I don't think Voldemort would be that stupid to invite something that he tried to get rid of back into his body.

So, I guess I'm back to Voldemort not realizing just what the effect of the blood transfer would do - that Voldemort thinks it gives him some special protection (or, at the very least, he thought it would mean that he could in the short term just kill Harry whereas he couldn't before) and now it will come back to bite him.

[Alz]

I think I said earlier as well - but it was also a pride thing for Voldemort to re-birth using the blood of the person that nearly ended his life!
He has an audience and it would have been nice of him to stand there and say - "look the blood of the person that killed me also bought me back to life" ...
I think they call it petty recrimination ... he acted for retribution and didnt realy think what he was absorbing back into his body ...

[Nagini]

Yes I agree with you there, that was part of his reason for using Harry. To show to his followers once and for all that he was the almighty Lord Voldemort was not to be defeated by anyone, especially a young boy.

But does this strike anyone else as childish? The way he acts and the things he says at times, can be interpretated as quite immature. Also its as if his confidence is low and he needs to hear constantly from his followers just how powerful and dark he is.

[Alz]

He has been humbled by the events in the past few years!
He was once self declared the most powerful wizard - then a baby kills him ..
Then we have the last few years where once again Harry denied his return - like hello he is going to try and show everyone that Harry is just a normal kid and he is all powerful - worthy of being feared and followed!

[Hermione]

Maybe Voldemort wanted the blood of Harry so he could detect him. Voldemort transfered a peice of himself into Harry with his scar, maybe if Voldemort has some of Harry, he can detect his whereabouts. It could be as additional weapon against the OoP.

[Alz]

Well see - he can already affect Harry via the scar - we saw that a lot more in OoTP - I am specualting that Voldemort gets the same feelings Harry does when Harry is near ...
I know he didnt have a wound left by the attack - but if he left some of him in Harry - is it possble he took something from Harry as a baby?
I like what you are saying - on face value you might have to wonder if he thought by having Harry's blood it would protect him - just because this baby survived his attack?
I know he wasnt aware of the Lily sacrifice until reflection later on - I would assume the same about the blood bond that protects Harry ...

[Nagini]

Well see - he can already affect Harry via the scar - we saw that a lot more in OoTP - I am specualting that Voldemort gets the same feelings Harry does when Harry is near ...
I know he didnt have a wound left by the attack - but if he left some of him in Harry - is it possble he took something from Harry as a baby?
I like what you are saying - on face value you might have to wonder if he thought by having Harry's blood it would protect him - just because this baby survived his attack?
I know he wasnt aware of the Lily sacrifice until reflection later on - I would assume the same about the blood bond that protects Harry ...

Something about what you said there about Voldemort affecting Harry. Do you think Voldemort will be able to gain further on this in the next books? Possibly by making Harry angry enough to hurt others. Maybe that is how you start to become a bad wizard by hurting others?

[Weasleyfanforever]

Something about what you said there about Voldemort affecting Harry. Do you think Voldemort will be able to gain further on this in the next books? Possibly by making Harry angry enough to hurt others. Maybe that is how you start to become a bad wizard by hurting others?

I have read theories elsewhere that perhaps Harry would be possessed or controlled by Harry somehow, to hurt those closest to him, such as Ron or Dumbledore. I think it would be very frightening, but also interesting to the septology if, the way that either of them dies is by Harry's hand, whilst being controlled. It could divide him, driving him either into the Dark Arts, or further to challenging Voldemort. It would probably destroy him, and change a lot of relationships that he has, but it is just an out there theory...

[Alz]

OK - so are we saying that Voldemort made another huge mistake taking the blood and using Harry as the target?
We know what Dumbledore's thoughts are - well nearly - we get an 'expression' - so we take it the effect of the blood transfer worked to both advantages.
But isnt it possible that Voldemort knows of a reason it had to be him - that anyone else wouldnt do - and not just a case of ego stroking?
I'm not sure he knew that once he had the blood he could touch Harry - that is what we are lead to believe is the reason - but seems a little obvious ...
I think there is another reason he chose Harry - perhaps it could relate to another step he took to prevent death?

[Nagini]

'He chose the boy he thought most likely to be a danger to him,' said Dumbledore 'And notice this, Harry: he chose, not the pure-blood (which, according to his creed, is the only kind of wizard worth being or knowing) but the half-blood, like himself. He saw himself in you before he had ever seen you, and in marking you with that scar, he did not kill you, as he intended, but gave you powers, and a future, which have fitted you to escape him not once, but four times so far - something that neither your parents, nor Neville's parents, ever achieved.'

Perhaps the power that was transferred to Harry as mentioned above was what Voldemort thought he would get back, plus the protection and any magic that Harry had. So in his mind, they would be on an even footing when it came to the magic within them - I am guessing that since Harry has escaped Voldemort so many times that it is not based on who is more powerful that could necessary win here. If that were the case then its unlikely to be Harry and Voldemort would be able to squish him - I find it interesting that he has so far failed and this brings me back to what could be in their blood. There is also a lot of emphasis based on blood - being pure blood etc in the Potter books.

Something else about that paragraph, the part in brackets - was that JKR telling us there or Dumbledore??

[Jenelle]

Going back to the part about DD telling Harry about the prophecy, he only told him part of it. Voldemorts spy heard some of it but DD never says what part-yes he heard the beginning but DD could have started telling Harry at the middle of the prophecy and we just thought it was the beginning. So what I'm saying is that maybe part of the prophecy that DD is leaving out is part of why Voldemort wanted to use Harry's blood and such, and also why DD still doesnt feel at ease about Harrys position in the battle.

[Nagini]

I agree with what you said that Dumbledore only told Harry part of the prophecy Jenelle EVEN though Dumbledore says he is telling Harry everything I think he is still leaving things out. My reason for thinking this is that Dumbledore doesn't want to influence Harry too much in case it changes things in the future. I am not sure if Dumbledore held back because of fatherly concern and love for Harry or because he knows what is to come and wants things to play out his way.

[Weasleyfanforever]

"The truth." Dumbledore sighed. "It is a beautiful and terrible thing, and should therefore be treated with great caution. However, I shall answer your questions unless I have a very good reason not to, in which case I beg you'll forgive me. I shall not, of course, lie."


OK, I have a very strong feeling that Dumbledore was refering to the prophecy when he said this. He never said that he showed Harry the full prophecy, so he wouldn't be lying. So I think that this could possibly be more evidence that he hasn't really told Harry the whole prophecy...

[Tinkerbell]

It is almost as if Dumbledore is willing Harry to ask him the right questions, as he cannot lie to him? Bit like when Dobby was trying to give Harry clues in the CoS?!

So if only Harry could ask the correct questions, we could have Dumbledore telling him loads of things! Reminds me a bit of the film I Robot when Will Smith's character is asking questions of the hologram and the hologram says "That, my son, is the right question..." !!

[Alz]

I think Dumbledore is torn between not wanting to lie - but also thinking that Harry shouldnt know everything ...
If Harry asks - he will tell him the truth - but he wont volunteer it because he feels it isnt right - perhaps he is niave etc - or there are things that Harry should know that would really disrupt and remove his focus from what he needs to do - kill or be killed ...
Is this still on topic :o

[Fortescue]

If I could pry into Voldemort's slimy little mind, I think he believed since the old magic he used for rebirth said, "blood of the enemy forcibly taken," that if he used Harry's blood, who was his biggest enemy at that moment in time, even bigger than Dumbledore, his rebirth would be more powerful, thus he would be more powerful. He too received the protection Harry had from his mother, or so he thinks anyway. Someone else said that he could be like a time-bomb, and I agree with that. What he thought would give him an advantage, using Harry's blood for rebirth, could lead to his downfall. If Dumbledore has a spell over Harry and Aunt Petunia which protects both of them because of Lily's sacrifice, now that Voldemort has Harry's blood it's also possible that Dumbledore use that blood connection between the three of them to tip the balance away from Voldemort. There has to be more than one ancient magic protection spell regarding blood.


I don't think Voldemort lost any of his powers when he attacked Harry, he simply shared some of them with Harry. I don't think he'd get any new powers, or get back something he'd lost by using Harry's blood, but I do think that Voldemort's use of Harry's blood was a big mistake. He thinks that now that he can touch Harry he can also kill Harry without the same thing happening again that happened in Godric's Hollow, but I don't believe that the blood protection had anything to do with what happened to Voldemort and his disappearing body that night, so he is not as safe as he thinks.

[Sirius Potter Fan]

I agree with you Fort...Voldemort made a mistake in using Harry's blood, and I think Dumbledore KNOWS it. However, I am wondering if Harry is now as safe ans has been previously assumed at #4 privit drive? Since Voldemort can now touch Harry, can he now trace him to #4 and attack him there?

[Fortescue]

I think in that respect nothing has changed. Just because Voldemort used Harry's blood for rebirth, it does not negate the fact that Lily died to protect Harry. That protection doesn't transfer to Voldemort, but that's one of those common sense things he always seems to forget.

[Sirius Potter Fan]

I think in that respect nothing has changed. Just because Voldemort used Harry's blood for rebirth, it does not negate the fact that Lily died to protect Harry. That protection doesn't transfer to Voldemort, but that's one of those common sense things he always seems to forget.

*so, are you saying I don't have common sense???* :D Just kidding, (I know I don't :p ) So what if he thinks that since he can touch Harry that he can come after him? Maybe that is something that Dumbledore has anticipated, and is why he isn't leaving Harry there for very long? Not that he thinks that Harry will be in real danger, but doesn't want to cause alot of excitement for the muggles?

[Fortescue]

*so, are you saying I don't have common sense???* :D Just kidding, (I know I don't :p ) So what if he thinks that since he can touch Harry that he can come after him? Maybe that is something that Dumbledore has anticipated, and is why he isn't leaving Harry there for very long? Not that he thinks that Harry will be in real danger, but doesn't want to cause alot of excitement for the muggles?

:D Actually, I was talking about Voldy, but..... :p

That's what I was talking about....we know how Voldemort over looks things. It's his thing....remember what Hermione said, one thing that Wizards haven't an ounce of is logic. That counts double for Voldemort. :D

[kashlie]

Dumbledore said that where Lily's (Harry's) blood flows, that is where Harry is safest.
Perhaps the look DD gave was for this - Yes, Voldemort can touch Harry now, but Harry is safe with him because Harry's blood flows through him.
In order to bring himself back and to become more powerful, he has weakened himself and given protection to the only wizard who can stop him.

This would lead to an almighty battle, as neither of them could win.
Now, incorporate some other theories of this, like the love factor, and Voldemort now feeling Harry's emotions.
As the battle looms and is fought, as Harry's friends are dying, his emotions run wild, playing havoc on V. Harry learns to control them, to focus them on Voldemort, to almost possess him with them, and defeats Voldemort using the one thing he has never felt.
It is corny thinking Voldemort will die because he finally feels love, but that was the protection Lily gave Harry, and it is what now flows through Voldemort and Harry, putting them on common, mortal ground.

[Norbert]

Didn't JKR herself say that Dumbledores look of triumph at the news of Voldemort using Harry's blood for his resurection is because Big D knows something more profound. I am almost 110% convinced that Harry's blood through Voldemorts veins was a 'profound' mistake on Voldemorts part as it WILL lead to his downfall. Harry only needs to figure out how to use it against him.

The only thing that concerns me is JKR's constant rebuttal - "How do you know that Harry is going to live through to the end of book seven?" She has responded with this comment far too many times. I fear that Harry's connection to Voldemort will prove fatal to both... This could also be the reason why Dumbledores look of triumph is so breif.

I hypothesize that Harry will figure out that his blod connection with Voldemort will give him the kamakazi attacking ability to vanquish the dark lord and he will sacrifice himself to take out Voldemort! Maybe through some veil connection Harry will come back though???

Sorry, this is heading for the speculation forums...

[Sirius Potter Fan]

I think JKR makes that comment, not because Harry is going to die, but to keep the end a mystery. If she let on that he will live, everyone will know the end! well except for all the others who might die, and just how the battle progresses. I think JKR is very brilliant in keeping that comment, it says neither that he will live or die, it keeps all in the relm of possibility. I am not shure, but I believe that JKR said somewhere that Harry's blood in Voldemort will not protect Voldemort from attack or make Harry any more vulnerable than he previously was. Can any of our experts on the interviews find that snippet? Thanks!

[Fortescue]

Okay, I didn't go back and read through what we've all ready said here, but I have had this nagging thought on my mind for a week now brought on by watching the movie, GoF again.

Voldemort used Harry's blood because he said it would make him stronger then if he used another wizard's blood. We saw that after his resurrection, he could touch Harry without turning into dust as Quirrell did, and he was very happy about that to Harry's chagrin. I have to wonder though, does Voldemort have a false sense of security in that he can now touch Harry and he believes that because he can touch him, that should he choose to use Avada Kedavra again, does he believe this time it will work and Harry will die?

I think what would happen and might just happen in the final book is that Harry will be in a tight spot, he will have found all of Voldemort's soul bits except the one he's currently using. Voldemort will have Harry backed into a corner with no defense and Voldemort will misjudge the benefit of the blood he received from Harry. He will AK Harry again, but the same thing will happen that happened the first time and Voldemort, unknowingly, will be on his last soul bit. Voldemort will die and take Harry's scar with him. Harry will not have to kill Voldemort in order to fulfill the prophecy as Voldemort, in his arrogance, will do away with himself.

[Ana C.B.Rodrigues]

Well I think that Harry's blood will Be kind of a way to destroy him... as you Know... Harry's blood is marked by his mother's love and the sacrifice of her life...
the interesting thing is i think that I feel that Voldemort's destruction has nothing to do with death...

[Alz]

It was an interesting gamble because in the film at least Voldemort called AK when Harry called Expelliarmus and we ended up with a bit of PI action ... maybe if that is Voldemort's faith in Harry's blood that also made him feel a little nervous again?
I really am not sure that Voldemort can use AK on Harry - more because I still feel H is a H and I think there is a protection on a horcrux that follows logical reason, you cant kill your own piece of soul! We have a thread on that so wont go on :p

I still think it was a mind trick for Voldemort - use the blood of the person that nearly killed him - almost like saying 'dude you failed and now you also helped bring me back' ... ohhhh, could be the blood is the best because it comes from a body that holds a piece of him inside!
Interesting sub thought there ... maybe that is why Dumbledore gleemed at this point - this was the final piece of the jigsaw that confirmed H is a H!
Notice Voldemort always gets his own back - first the AK and then in GoF the shadows/PI from the locked wands ... once again it weakens him!

[Norbert]

There appears to be a common theme of everyone assuming that Voldemort gains an understanding of the protection that is in Harry's blood from PS when Quirrel is not able to touch Harry. I agree that Voldemort uses Harry's blood for his re-birth because of the protection in it from his mother and that this is what allows him to touch Harry after he steps out of the cauldron. I feel that a very good point to ponder is when and how did Voldemort come to the understanding of the importance of Harry's blood! IMHO - It happens in the Chamber of Secrets!

I am now re-reading all six volumes. I have just finished re-reading COS and found the dialogue between Harry and Riddle in the chamber very interesting. Having been through to book six already puts that whole conversation in a much different light!

Now that we know that Voldemort uses Harry's blood for his re-birth in GoF, and the diary is/was a Horcrux, I thought that it was very interesting that the Diary version of Tom Riddle is soley interested in getting information from Harry about the night of Voldemorts defeat...

Harry tells Riddle that his mother saved him by dying and Tom (AKA Voldemort) takes this all in and quickly realises exactly what happend that night and why! I haven't the text in front of me but Riddle says something like - 'Yes, that is a very powerfull counter-charm. I can see were I mis-calculated now! You see Harry it was all a lucky chance, not your greatness, that I was defeated and you lived!"

He goes on to ask Harry - do you not find it strange; our likenesses? Both orphans, both Parslemouths, etc... At this point, Riddle is realising that Voldemort(he) transferred some of his powers/abilities to Harry that night!

It is very clear to me, as I re-read the title chapter, that it is while in the form of Tom Riddle from the diary in the Chamber of secrets that Voldemort comes to the full understanding of just how Harry's mother saved him and how that 'protection' runs in Harry's veins! It was there that he learned of the importance of Harry's blood!

When Quirrel is killed by Harry's touch Voldemort still is no wiser as to why. We are all assuming that he simply put the two together - That he could not kill Harry and Quirrel could not touch Harry = Using Harry's blood in his re-birth would strengthen him. I disagree - He learned it in the COS through Tom Riddle's Diary...

Now - How did that Info travel back to the current day Voldemort who was hiding in Albania during the happenings of COS?!

That's another thread, I think...

[Alz]

See now that chapter in CoS has been the single biggest mind trip to me - anyone who has been around my forums for a few years will know this - given what was said and taking place I always assumed maybe we were seeing what happens when Bad wizards meddle with time ... we later now know we are dealing with a horcrux ...
But then JKR's comments about what would have happened if Riddle had lived and her answer it wouldd have made present day Voldemort even stronger and we will find out more in book 7 - that just set me reeling back again ...
There is still so much about that horcrux that we still dont know - I think I even started a thread a couple of months talking about this ... I will see if I can find it and link ya ...

[gbogbo]

Just to string together some pieces that seem to be coming into focus.

So, if Voldemort learned of the power of Love through his mistake in Godric's Hollow and what he learned later of how Lily's sacrifice was the root of that, then that might explain why he choose Harry's blood.

But that could really mean two entirely different things: (A) he is selfish and worried and only wants to armor himself against future attacks, or (B) he is starting to "buy" what Dumbledore is "selling".

If it is the latter, then could Dumbledore's look of triumph be that of a teacher who is finally getting through to a wayward student?

In any case, there are very strong indications that this act will eventually lead to his downfall. But if (B) is the case, then it is going to have to be some Lazarus-like resurrection, and that would be too wierd.

[secret seeker]

The riddle that came out of the diary was a part of voldemort and knew it. The soul fragment that came out of the diary knew it was a part, not the whole, of voldemort and if it had escaped it would have given the voldemort in albania a new body to possess. ( In truth, it would have been voldemort possessing his own body back but younger with more knowledge and his horcrux's still). That is what jo meant by being stronger.
The gleam in Dumbledores eyes in my interpretation, meant, Dumbldore suspected Riddle may try to use Harry in this way and placed a protection on/in Harry in case, voldemort acted exactly as Dumbledore expected him to, and I think it was a good thing that he did use Harrys blood to regenerate, it may even save Harrys life.
What I want to know is how much more has Dumbledore kept from Harry. He said he would tell Harry everything at the end of OOtP, but he didnt, he didnt tell him it was Snape who told Voldemort of the prophecy, and it was months later that he confided in Harry his suspicions of Riddles Horcrux's.

[Alz]

The riddle that came out of the diary was a part of voldemort and knew it. The soul fragment that came out of the diary knew it was a part, not the whole, of voldemort and if it had escaped it would have given the voldemort in albania a new body to possess. ( In truth, it would have been voldemort possessing his own body back but younger with more knowledge and his horcrux's still). That is what jo meant by being stronger.

I think the key to this is the implication that maybe Voldemort can re-absorb the removed soul portions ... that could be interesting if indeed HiaH ...
That point asides - I think that may be why JKR made that comment ...

[secret seeker]

I really think that Jo has given us all the clues to figure out nearly everything, and a good source would be Dumbledore. As he said to Harry, tyrants create their own userpers, their own downfall, and this could be exactly what he meant when Voldemort, in his insistence to use Harrys blood to regenerate created his own downfall?... The prophecy is meaningless, unless you stick to it, but, the night he killed the potters he gave Harry some of his powers, not a.... a viable pathway of destruction, a means to finish off Voldemort....he just marked him as his equal....., Voldemorts insistence to use Harrys blood will be his own un-doing, his own downfall......and Harry cant really be a killer, can he???:D

[Alz]

I think I may have said this before - if so, please excuse ...
But if a horcrux can absorb some of the host - then that might also mean visa versa and the host can almost pollute the horcrux ... I think this might have been what Dumbledore was hinting at when he said it was a bad idea to use a living host - well you can see why the re-absorbtion of something that has a pollutant in there could be bad for Voldemort - in this case lets just stick to blood but the same deal exists - maybe part of Harry is now co-exisiting in Voldemort?

[happy_hannah]

i was just going to start a new thread on this! good thing i came across this first, i was wondering also what might occur now that voldemort has harry's blood in him and therefore lily's protection. could it be just as harry has qualities of voldemort, voldemort might get some qualities of harry, like perhaps a little compassion? does it make voldemort more human?

[Sirius Potter Fan]

that is realy facinating. It seemed at the time that the presence of Harry's blood in Voldemort actually lessened the protection, Voldemort was able to touch him again. but . . . most good "cures" come with side effects . . . compassion, love, empathy, maybe even an ability to forgive . . . that could mess with a power hungry dark wizard's plans couldn't it!

[Alz]

..or could go someways towards how Harry will dispose of Voldemort - although substitute blood with soul ;)

If Harry had polluted Voldemort with blood - I guess JKR would have made reference to strange things happening with Voldemort in the last two books.
While I of course like the premise, how could it be explained that Voldemort went 2 years before getting the side effects?

[Sirius Potter Fan]

how could it be explained that Voldemort went 2 years before getting the side effects?
well, It probably wouldn't happen all at once. Voldemort would experience these unusual but very brief thoughts of compassion, then he easily fights it off and continues his evil ways . . . next time . . . it takes him maybe half a second more to fight off that sudden uncharacteristic urge, and so on. It would be quite a while before anyone would notice the change at all, then even longer before they would become concerned or question his decisions. etc. He would eventualy be in inner turmoil to the point he looses it all.