Snape/Irish Phoenix?

[SnarkologyMajor]

Okay-when I had figured out J.K.R.'s very obscure clue concerning augury, I could only find info. on it being divination using birds which didn't seem like much:confused: However I didn't have my copy of FB&WTFT and had forgotten that an Augurey/Irish Phoenix was in there-could this be a clue to either Snape's patronus(thanks Boing:D )/animagus? This is in Chapter 21-

HBP pg.448-Ron was now struggling to finish a viciously difficult essay for Snape that Harry and Hermione had already completed. Harry fully expected to receive low marks on his, because he had disagreed with Snape on the best way to tackle dementors.
g.449-"How do you spell 'belligerent', said Ron shaking his quill very hard while staring at his parchment. "It can't be B-U-M"
"No it isn't," said Hermione, pulling Ron's essay towards her. "And augury doesn't begin O-R-G either:D ....
"Yes it must," said Hermione, pointing to the title of his essay,"because we were asked how we'd deal with dementors"...

Found it curious that Snape would argue(implied) w/Harry about the best way to deal w/dementors-and seems to be indicating that an Augurey/Irish Phoenix would be better than a Patronus. The Irish Phoenix is described as a mournful looking bird somewhat resembling avulture, greenish-black in color. The feathers repel ink, and it's distinctive cry was once thought to be a death omen but is now known it foretells rain.

Sounds a bit like a metaphor for Snape-and since I believe everything Severus ever tells Harry is very important, is Snape(and J.K.R.) giving us a clue that Snape's patronus is an Irish Phoenix? Also it was speculated for yrs. that Snape was an animagus w/vulture as a guess that fits very well:D Any thoughts?

[Alz]

I still dont have FB&WTFT .... :o
So there was no way I could have made that link!
JKR says she cant say what Snape's patronus or boggart is as it will give too much away - so we can read from that a million things.
Umm - something that can scare a dementor as much as a patronus ... interesting indeed!
Isnt there also something that is like a dementor as well mentioned in FB&WTFT??
I think we have a thread on that somewhere!
Anyways - I really like the patch work you done for that and I can't fault the logic - would be very helpful to Snape to have something to keep the dementors away given how precious his mind is!

[halliemei]

This is an interesting topic. First, I will say that I was also convinced that the whole scene in question was a clue -- somehow. It just fits her way of doing things and it's so detailed that one (or more) of the details must be a great pointer. So, I pulled out FB&WTFT to look up the Augurey (and Lethifolds, Alz). And, since I'm convinced that Snape is really Harry's "best" teacher (in terms that he can/should learn the most from him that would be most useful) and that Snape had to go from Hogwarts to get Harry to learn more from him, I think this is an interesting direction.

AUGUREY - Ministry Classification XX (meaning harmless/may be domesticated) - native to Britain and Ireland; thin and mournful looking (somewhat like an underfed vulture); intensely shy; flies only in heavy rain (it does that a LOT in stressful times for Harry); cry used to be believed to foretell death; feathers repel ink; tear-shaped nest (as opposed to the regular phoenix, whose tears have healing powers).

LETHIFOLD - Classification XXXXX (Known Wizard Killer/cannot be domesticated) - found soley in tropical climates; resembles a black cloak; glides along ground at night; clammy touch; wraps coldness around victim; suffocates victims; fought off by a patronus; generally attacks in sleep.

So, that's it. I guess my question has always been what DOES Snape think is a better way to fight off a Dementor than a Patronus? Snape=Bad would say that he was simply diverting the students from knowing the best way to fight one, improving the odds of the DEs. But, if we assume Snape not necessarily bad, it would assume that an Augurey is related (unless Ron isn't really doing that essay).

Question: is Snape Irish?

[Boing]

In halliemei's description, it doesn't say that the cry is now known to foretell rain, but I think if it is in the book and it was just left out of the above description, then that could be an interesting clue. Um, I also don't own FB&WTFT . . . :o

Let's assume for the argument that an augury's cry does foretell rain. If that is the case and it was previously assumed that it was a death omen, perhaps that says something about the true nature of Snape. We are constantly led to believe that he is evil, has bad intentions, etc. Yet throughout the books, he has been vindicated time and again. Is JKR trying to give us another obscure clue that says Snape really isn't all that bad afterall? That even though he seems to be a harbinger of death and destruction, that truly he's just a melancholy soul that could bring some dark days/sad days, but isn't really out to kill Harry?

I don't know, but I do know that I am really, really looking forward to the showdown between Harry and Snape . . . good stuff!

[halliemei]

You are correct, Boing. They are "now" used as a household weather detector, as a result. It's also interesting that their cry is "mournful."

[SnarkologyMajor]

It does seem like another clue pointing out that Snape isn't the evil villain that he appears as:D I have no idea if Snape could be construed as an Irish name-but it does say the Augurey is a native of Britain and Ireland and sometimes found elsewhere in Europe. Another interesting thing is the footnote J.K.R. put- See Why I Didn't Die When The Augurey Cried by Gulliver Pokeby.
Why would Ron (and it seems Snape) think an augury would be useful against dementors? It just seems as though Snape was trying to tell Harry something like he so often does-Why the heck does he have to be so cryptic (oh yeah this is J.K.R.:D ) If his patronus is a phoenix(somewhat different than Dumbledore's) this is intriguing when you think of the phoenix Harry thought he saw at Dumbledore's funeral-could this have actually been Snape sending some signal? And if his animagus is a Phoenix-I wonder how long he's been around.

[Alz]

Cheers for the expanded details halliemei! :D

Interesting about the misunderstood nature - I think that is exactly like Snape. While people, including Harry see him being an evil little cuss there are others that know different - Dumbledore for one.
I still feel that when someone asked JKR is Snape was redeeming, they were a very, very clever person!

[halliemei]

Snarkology also brings me to another point . . . Ron KNOWS that Patroni fight off Dementors. And he's Harry's best friend. Why would he write the essay this way? I could understand Hermione -- she's into grades and stuff. But, Ron? Honestly, loyalty would be more important than grades. Unless this was just a convenient way to put this clue into the book (which is the ONLY way this makes sense).

[Ana C.B.Rodrigues]

I think the Irish phoenix theory is a good theory.
Remember chamber of secrets? The feelings and thoughts Harry had when he heard fawkes singin, hope.... and all that... and the way Harry felt when her tears healed his that resulted from his fight against Riddle's diary and the Basilisk...
besides this phoenixes are very smart birds and aren't domesticated easily, so we can guess that Fawkes will be back, and there's still the connection to both Voldemort and Harry's wands.

It may not be the key, but it's still a good theory.
:D