View Full Version : Marks that still haunt
'While is may feel secure enough to use the name ... the rest of us ...' He rubbed his left forearm, apparently unconsciously, on the spot where Harry knew the Dark Mark was burnt into his skin.
My question is, does the mark always burn for the Death Eaters now that Voldemort it back?
Does it hurt more when he is away from the Dark Lord?
Does it hurt because he failed to return that night to the service of the Dark Lord?
I think he rubbed the mark just as JKR wrote, it was unconscious, the mark forever a reminder of what happened/what he saw/what he knows can happen again.
I think that the mark only burns when they are being called. I don't think it matters how far away you are. It was my understanding that the mark would burn as they were being called, but as it seems Voldemort can control it, I bet he could make it hurt as much as he wanted.
Yah, I somewhat agree ...
I think the question I was asking was, say for instance Karkaroff, would he be laid low in real agony at the moment because Voldemort chooses to keep the pain running for those who did not return?
In a roundabout way I was thinking perhaps Snape not being bothered by it suggested that he has been before the Dark Lord since his ressurection and is still alive now ...
This has ramification on so many other Snape questions I have posted ...
In this occasion it was a metal thing - he hears the name Voldemort and something in his mind makes him reach for the biggest reminder ... but I suppose I was thinking in a broader context how could this be used ... there is a great deal in Potter about marks and pain ;)
Tinkerbell
26-10-2004, 14:12
Umm, we are only told about the Dark Mark in GoF, and this is only because of Voldemort's re-birth, so it did not burn during the time that he was 'indisposed'. As for whether Voldemort can control the amount of pain suffered, I'm not so sure on this, I think the marks were there purely as a signal to the DE's when it was time to 'gather', and the only reason it the marks were increasing in intensity of pain, etc, during GoF was because of V's impending re-birth.
Saying that, however, I agree with Bla's comment about marks and pain in the Septology - the analogies are not used lightly by Ms Rowling!
Prior to Voldemorts re-birth - the Dark Marks were becoming more pronounced ... indeed this was signalling the return of Voldemort ...
But isn't it possible that Voldemort could use this mark on Death Eaters that failed to return?
Indeed isn't it likely he could use it to drive them out - short of cutting off their arm he could increase the pain and intensity until they have to surface ... there is no doubts that the Dark Mark can be felt by a Death Eater no matter where they are ...
Kingsley
27-10-2004, 11:45
I think of it as a skin version of the old batman signal--there is no real way for a death eater to avoid Voldemort's beckoning--I think it is some kind of almost magical tatoo so I am wondering if it is also a homing beacon of sorts--can Karkaroff be traced by his mark is my main question right now
Yah, I was kind of thinking the same thing ....
That mark was personal from Voldemort - like him marking them as his own - as such I think he can feel when other DE's are near or around .... and as Kinger said I think he could use it to home onto them if needed ... gotta suck to be Karkaroff
Once again asks questions about if Snape spying is clandestine or upfront ...
Kingsley
28-10-2004, 11:19
With that in mind, Snape has to be upfront always about his location, or Voldemort would just know he is lying because the mark wont lie
So is the secret hideout of the Order really a secret--
Snape was at the hideout and Voldemort would have had to be aware of Snape's location--or is there something that Dumbledore knows about the mark as well as how to get around its effects :cool:
And another great point Kinger!
Indeed - if he can use the Dark Marks as a GDEPS (Global Death Eater Positioning System :D ) does he know when Snape is in the Orders Head Quarters?
I think Voldemort has to play the same as Dumbledore - he has to assume that Snape will be in strange locations and rather than try and bust - just sit and wait for the information ....
I know it is all speculative - but I like it - nice one Kinger:)
MissWhizbee
28-10-2004, 14:06
GDEPS :D super funny!!
I'm not sure it works like that. Doesn't V have to touch another DEs mark for it too even burn? When I was reading it, it seemed like he didn't have a huge amount of control over the marks, only to make them burn to signal the DEs to meet, and it didn't seem like they were singular devices, meaning that each individually could be called upon without the others being called upon as well.
Hermione mentions that her idea for the DA coins was spawned by the marks and those coins couldn't locate the other members or single one member out among the others. That isn't hard proof that the marks would be the same, just circumstancial evidence, if you will.
Also, I have been wondering if DD even knows about the marks, or how many other non-DEs know about them. JKR never mentions anything about non-DEs or DD knowledge of the marks. They do just look like tatoos I would imagine and unless a DE told someone what they were for noone would ever know. I have been thinking more about Snape being a double agent and it seems that if DD doesn't know about the mark then he wouldn't have known to send Snape to the circle on that fateful night in GoF, etc, etc...I could go on and on.
Hey MissWhizbee, good to see ya again!
I have one disagreement on above - in GoF in the graveyard he touches Pettigrews Dark Mark to summons the Death Eaters - then they all start to appear - that would seem consistant with him using it as a beacon ...
Then we had the 'marks' beggining to burn when Voldemort was getting ready to re-birth ...
I suppose I was extending that to see if they could be used further by the man that gave them out to 'mark' his followers ...
MissWhizbee
28-10-2004, 14:49
I totally think he uses it as a beacon to himself, a GLVPS, :) I just don't think that it goes both ways.
Do you think if the marks do work that way and that he does have more power over them than I give him creidt for that he could have found or summoned his DE before he returned to his full bodily form?
I would have said he had to be alive and in full form ...
As we saw in GoF - the Dark Marks got darker as he was about to be re-born - this suggest that they might have been dormant while he was bodily less ...
I think he physically needed to touch the marks to set the signal off ....
I agree, but also have to put in that I think that the marks are known to others. I guess (and this may be in the books, but they are not handy) that I thought they were replicas of the Dark Mark - if this is the case, it would be hard for anyone who was in the inner circle to get away unscathed.
OKay, now this leads me to another question. If Dumbledore has some reason to believe Snape is good, he must know about the mark, correct? When did he learn about the mark? Because that would have been a definite nail in the coffin for accused DEs in their trials - if they have the Dark Mark tattoo, they are DEs. So, are we to assume that you can't even see it at all unless Voldemort starts to call? If that is the case, that makes sense, because Voldemort didn't have any powers at the time of the trials.
As for him using them as a homing device, I don't think so. This is only because he doesn't seem to mention that he knows where people are, just that he can find them. Also, as other people have mentioned, that would get pretty sticky later on . . .
Well see this goes someway towards my point I think ...
Voldemort gave them the marks ... he can make them all return by pushing on the Dark Mark of another ...
He pushed the mark - it hurt Pettigrew and then suddenly all the DE's started to appear ..
I think Boing made a good point - I think once Voldemort lost his body and just barely existed - at this point the Dark Marks faded like the person that gave them.
Then when we started to re-gain body and re-birth - the marks started to appear again ...it's like a gradual procedure both ways ...
But see - the marks seem to the an extention of the master that gave them ...
So - since he exerts some control with them - what is to say how far this goes?
It seems more than just a mark - it is a link to the bearer ... bit like with Harry and the scar
Well just to recap, Dumbledore definitely knows about the dark mark as Snape showed it to him, Harry saw as much in the pensieve. Snape also told him about Karakoffs which was also getting darker.
It would seem logical to suggest that the dark mark disapeared when Voldemort was bodyless as Blaise suggested, or could be magically made invisible so that Death Eaters escaped detection.
As for the theory that Voldemort could track his Death Eaters through the Dark Mark - here is what he said in GoF regarding the missing death eaters.
And here we have six missing Death Eaters...three dead in my service. One, too cowardly to return...he will pay. One, who I believe has left me for ever... he will be killed, of course...and one, who remains my most faithful servant, and who has already re-entered my service
When he says "he will pay" and "he will be killed" perhaps it is because he can track them through the Dark Mark and the Death Eaters dont know that yet?
Yah, that was kind of my point really - he doesnt have any doubts her will get them - all said in a positive manner ...
I got to thinking he could use the marks to cause pain and torture so that whoever they are will come back pleading him to stop the pain ... or remove their arm ...
I think of it as a skin version of the old batman signal--there is no real way for a death eater to avoid Voldemort's beckoning--I think it is some kind of almost magical tatoo so I am wondering if it is also a homing beacon of sorts--can Karkaroff be traced by his mark is my main question right now
This may be a little off topic but here goes. If the scars can be used as homing becons and such, couldnt Voldemort find out where the Order is when Snape is around? I'm neither for or against this theory it just poses a question for me about it.
Another scar I would like to bring back up if you please. Dumbledore's scar of the London Underground is said by JKR to be of importance or something of that nature(its almost midnight so I could be wrong) does anyone else know anything about it?
I think Dumbledore's mark is discussed somewhere else in here - this is more about Voldemort, Death Eaters and Snape's scar ...
Do we have anymore thoughts on how the dark marks, given by Voldemort as a sign of allegiance, be used by him to track down the missing death eaters?
If he can make them hurt so people returned - how far was the range?
How would the likes of Snape deal with this call?
Brycen05
17-01-2005, 15:14
Well, yeah, I think that the marks on the death eaters can be tracked. Well, first, one of the spells used on the tatoo obviously was the protein charm, meaning that he couldn't torture one without everyone else feeling it as well. Keeping in mind that whenever something was changed when Hermione gave the charm, it burned red-hot in thier pockets. Also, remember how Hermione had some spell that she attached to a signing of a sheet in (I think Ootp) which tortured whoever went against the "contract" (Iguess). And specifically, in regards to tracking each of them, if Mrs. Weasly could have a clock to do it, most likely there is some way.
Just a thought ;)
Actually that is a good point.
Your right Hermione cursed the signup sheet for the DA setup to expose if someone broke the secret ... and we saw how that went.
I still feel that people who possess the Dark Mark can be tracked by it from the person that gave it - after all he could effect them all with it ;)
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