View Full Version : US versus UK - Missing text?
"He told me to do it or he'll kill me. I've got no choice."
"Come over to the right side, Draco, and we can hide you more completely than you can possibly imagine. What is more, I can send members of the Order to your mother tonight to hide her likewise. Your father is safe at the moment in Azkaban...when the time comes we can protect him too...come over to the right side, Draco...you are not a killer..."
Malfoy stared at Dumbledore.
"He told me to do it or he'll kill me. I've got no choice."
"He cannot kill you if you are already dead. Come over to the right side Draco, and we can hide you more completely than you can possibly imagine. What is more, I can send members of the Order to your mother tonight to hide her likewise. Nobody would be surprised that you had died in your attempt to kill me -- forgive me, but Lord Voldemort probably expects it. Nor would the Death Eaters be surprised that we had captured and killed your mother -- it is what they would do themselves, after all. Your father is safe at the moment in Azkaban...When the time comes we can protect him too. Come over to the right side, Draco...you are not a killer..."
Malfoy stared at Dumbledore.
SO - what's missing between US & UK ...
He cannot kill you if you are already dead.
Nobody would be surprised that you had died in your attempt to kill me -- forgive me, but Lord Voldemort probably expects it. Nor would the Death Eaters be surprised that we had captured and killed your mother -- it is what they would do themselves, after all.
I've seen this explained by the editor from Scholastic - these were notes that JKR removed from the UK version but they remained in the US version ...
BUT, what is more important, what was JKR initially saying that then made her want it removed?
I think I will keep my mouth shut here for now and let you all have a bash at it!
SnarkologyMajor
05-05-2006, 15:40
Great idea Alz-we've discussed Dumbledore's comments but need a thread to focus on such a big clue:cool: Well the obvious one to me would be Regulus-but I've got Grindlewald on my mind at the moment! Since Dumbledore is the one who is responsible for his defeat, hmmm...Would Dumbledore's prefered method for defeating an enemy be to make everyone believe said enemy is dead? Much to ponder....
Sirius Potter Fan
05-05-2006, 17:41
He cannot kill you if you are already dead
OK, here, I think we all trust that he doesn't mean literal death, but a feigned death. He also includes feigning the death of Narcissa.
Nor would the Death Eaters be surprised that we had captured and killed your mother -- it is what they would do themselves, after all.
With all that talk of feigning death, as he nears his own . . . well, it does have me thinking . . . I have believed that DD is truly dead, but since going over the ending of the book several times recently, I am wavering.
I think it suspicious that the parts that reffer to feigning the deaths of Draco and Narcissa were left out. Could she have thought them too telling, but not been in time to have them taken out of the US version? Could she perhaps have been thinking we might pick up on and think more seriously about the possibilities of feigned death? . . . this fence I'm riding is getting a bit shaky!
The Frozen North
05-05-2006, 23:03
Unfortunately, from many various reports, I get a very strong impression that the US media is very condescending to the public and they therefore often spell things out to them that in other societies are implied. This is not a comment on the US readers and viewers but the media and publishers. My point is that the US version is probably the accurate draft of the story but JKR wanted it omitted in order to create more mystery and speculation. I have read one post on this forum that suggested this very theory, that to keep Draco safe, he would take the "Draught of Death" (if that's what it's called, sorry I don't remember precisely) so that everyone would think that he was already dead. Many writers, writing mysteries, will have their own draft, with the complete story, and then based on the complete story, write the mysteries. This enables them to marshal their ideas and keep continuity in the story.
SnarkologyMajor
06-05-2006, 01:10
Gee TFN-that was a rather diplomatic way to describe the sometimes deplorable American press:D It's heartening to hear that the rest of the world takes what the US Press reports w/a grain of salt! However I'm not sure this is relevant to whether or not JKR really wanted that line removed-I never heard or read the comments from Scholastic (would love a direction to it Alz). The fact that she didn't want it included obviously points to at least one person faking their death, but then again we have all been on alert for that for a very long time. In JKR's world people who are supposed to be dead frequently turn up alive-this pattern began w/PS, SS and Voldemort, was reinforced w/Peter in POA, and then she really tweaked our noses w/Barty Crouch Jr. Not only am I about 99.9% sure that someone is alive who is supposed to be dead, but we also should consider that someone who we believe to be alive-is actually dead, what a twist that would be!
halliemei
06-05-2006, 09:35
Refering to this particular sentence:
Nor would the Death Eaters be surprised that we had captured and killed your mother -- it is what they would do themselves, after all.
I believe that this is important, as well. It points to an absolute truth that I've discovered (especially as it relates to "beliefs" anyone holds - or any group holds). We see the world through the glasses that we wear. We assume (and we know what that does :D ) that others think/behave as we do. The DEs would not believe anything that they would themselves not have done. They couldn't understand it. So, does this mean that perhaps we must keep ourselves honest by remembering that not everyone is like us? Not everyone assumes what we do about other people/other groups/life? I think so. But, that is, of course, OT.
Related to the whole of this discussion, I wonder if perhaps TFN has it pretty closely nailed. This was intended to be removed because JKR thought that it would give something away too big. Here's a question -- has it been removed from subsequent editions of the US book? Does anyone have a book from later than the first printing? If it is removed, that is even more telling - because not only did Scholastic recognize they missed an edit they were supposed to remove but they fixed it.
I think a couple of you touched upon my main thoughts when I read it - he was offering to fake death and conceal - and we have seen god knows how many people mention the possibility that Snape/Dumbledore/Sluggy could all have been involved in a lightening struck tower deception ...
I just wonder if JKR put it in there to once again establish precedence and then later decided to remove it as it looked as blatant as it did - we can fake your death and no-one will ever know ...
JKR doesn't patronise her readers - these were her words that she removed and they were not added by the US editor - he just didn't remove them from his final draft like the Bloomsbury editor ... I believe under instruction from JKR
The Frozen North
08-05-2006, 04:59
Just to be clear here, I would never expect JKR to patronize her readers but I would not put it past the US editors. They are clearly her words but I beleive she never intended them to be published, it was in fact her own working guideline that the US editor chose not to remove imho.
Sorry dude - wasn't suggesting you thought that - I faux paux me thinks :o
I think that as the books go through editing parts are removed and trimmed, heck that is the reason she uses editors at the publishers - these few people are the only ones that get the book before the rest of us.
I think even she spends a lot of time after the manuscript is passed across re-reading and I think something about that section she didn't like, be it patronising, obvious or it gave something away.
I don't call foul on anyone here - I think it was a genuine mistake but I just wonder given the context of where it happened, could it have been to conceal or just an authors disliking of her text?
Seeker615
08-05-2006, 12:02
I never thought for one minute anything but Dumbledore offering to protect Draco and his family by hiding them by faking their deaths.
I think the sentence itself may have been removed in the British version just to trim the text up a bit. I mean a few sentences later Dumbledore says no one would be surprised if he died doing this mission so it pretty much says they will hide him by faking his death.
I guess I am a strong believer that Dumbledore is dead and died for the progress of this mission to rid Voldy of the wizarding world. And as much as I love DD I would be really disappointed if he comes back. It's just too much like every other book with a powerful wizard if he does come back.
Well, my first instinct was that the UK version was probably trimmed because maybe she didnt want to bring up the issue of 'faking death' - since maybe Dumbledore was going to fake his own death soon after, and she didnt want to set any ideas in our heads...
... but then again, it could just be because it was just too wordy...
I enjoyed the first idea:)
See that is the dilemma when looking at this in or out of context - JKR will probably make small edits like this all the time just to trim it back, why say it in a thousand words when you can use 10 - I guess that is when I can be accused of over-analysis - guilty as charged!
Just given the time and events in context of the edit - it does scream 'I can fake death easily' - now of course I am not going to dismiss the idea that perhaps on initial writing JKR felt she needed to solidify the moment with more words and totally nail any doubt on how Dumbledore could fake Malfoy's death - but I just have to wonder if not being so obvious about faking death was the real cause!
I think that the things Dumbledore says are the most carefully worded passages in the series. I definitely believe that the additional text in the US version contains significant meaning. IMHO, I don't think JKR would have edited it out simply for "space."
As for what it means, although JKR said that when people die in her books, they are really dead, maybe not everyone who appears dead really is.
It is interesting given the deaths we have seen that JKR suddenly becomes coy over the whole 'faking' death thing - and the edits do tend to remove the subtlety from the paragraph - it was more yelling how easily Dumbledore could conceal death rather than the UK that seems to touch upon it - still not sure it is JKR crediting the UK readers with more intelligence they didn't need the extra prompts - that would just be patronising!
The Frozen North
24-05-2006, 05:18
still not sure it is JKR crediting the UK readers with more intelligence they didn't need the extra prompts - that would just be patronising!
But that was my point entirely Alz, I don't for one minute think that JKR would patronise her readers in this way (or any other way for that matter;) ) but, given past examples of the US media, I would not at all be surprised if the US editors insisted on including this text, they are quite capable of patronising their (excuse the pun) PATRONS. :p
There's no huge difference in my opinion. UK version is more subtle and well gives you choices to think about... as Dumbledore's dead, this difference between texts wont mind a lot in my opinion... unless Dumbledore talked to Mc Gonagall or others about the situation...
Another point...
Is it missing text or US edition just "let slip" the text? :cool:
I think there is a definite difference between the two - one is speculative and maybe subjective - the other is in your face 'I can fake your death' ... that is what makes the two different texts so interesting.
There is no doubts that JKR actually wrote the US side - it was explained as the US editor not removing it - so I guess the question is more down to JKR or her UK Editor's choice to remove it ... was it because it was 100 words which could be said in 10 - or was it to conceal a blatant point?
Glumbumble
24-10-2006, 10:50
I found this on the Canadian publisher's site. Thought it would be a good idea to see which edition is published worldwide but I can only read English!
The Difference between Canadian, American and British Editions
Does the Canadian edition contain the same text and cover artwork as the British edition?
Yes. The Canadian editions of all the Harry Potter books have the original British text intact and feature the original cover artwork.
What is the difference between the adult editions and the children’s editions?
There is no difference between the content of the books, only the covers are different. The adult covers appeal to older readers. Children’s and Adult editions are available in hardcover and paperback.
Are the American editions different than the Canadian editions?
Yes a little. The first book, Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone, has a different title in the U.S., Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone. There are also some minor changes to the text to adapt it to an American audience. The American editions also feature different cover artwork and text design. The Canadian editions have the same title and text as the original British editions.
I live in the U.S., why can’t you sell me a Canadian edition?
Raincoast Books is unable to sell Harry Potter to the U.S. due to territorial copyright. Scholastic Publishing holds the U.S. rights to the Harry Potter series.
nymphadora
24-10-2006, 20:04
I think there is a definite difference between the two - one is speculative and maybe subjective - the other is in your face 'I can fake your death' ... that is what makes the two different texts so interesting.
There is no doubts that JKR actually wrote the US side - it was explained as the US editor not removing it - so I guess the question is more down to JKR or her UK Editor's choice to remove it ... was it because it was 100 words which could be said in 10 - or was it to conceal a blatant point?
There is a difference between the two and before you pointed out the US version to me Alz, I never would have thought of Dumbledore concealing Draco and his mother by faking their deaths. I was under the impression that they would just go into hiding, basically disappear off the face of the earth. Possibly go under the fidelus (sp?) charm so they can not be found. But the difference brings up a whole other point, but probably ends up in the same place... Draco and his mother being hidden from Voldemort, just with a more concrete reason for disappearing. Actually, the more I think about it, the more the fact of faking their deaths makes sense, which means that it was more likely a cut to eliminate wordiness rather than a blatent concealment. I don't believe that it was meant to help us eliminate the idea of Dumbledore faking his own death because that was just a little to real to just be fake, you know what I mean? I also agree with the person who said that Dumbledore coming back to life would be a disappointment, that not all powerful wizards need to return from the dead.
I found this on the Canadian publisher's site. Thought it would be a good idea to see which edition is published worldwide but I can only read English!
Canada uses the same publishers as UK - US version is done via scholastic and it is distributed to other parts of the world - I have seen US versions in Middle East before ...
Generally though - if the book is supplied in English - it is the UK version that tends to be the international ...
Those differences are real, trust me - I have the US and UK versions of the books and indeed there is missing text!
vBulletin® v3.7.2, Copyright ©2000-2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.