Wizards/Witches in Muggle Government (or other muggle jobs)

[Sirius Potter Fan]

In HBP we find that Kingsley Shackelbolt has been placed in an office close to the Prime Minister. In this case it is to watch for and protect against DE's atacking or influencing muggle government, but . . . what if there are others, what if good and dark wizards alike have jobs or offices within the muggle community? We know that there are some that are fascinated with the muggle life (Arthur) and they even teach "Muggle Studies" at Hogwarts. Given the "Half Bloods" as well with a muggle parent, I believe many would have enough cultural knowledge to fit in, but, it isn't ever realy mentioned. I did read somewhere that Gringots would exchange muggle money for wizard money, so there could be some wizards with muggle jobs. As long as they don't do magic in front of the muggles would the MoM allow it. Just some thoughts . . .

[Tonks]

Well, I'd imagine the Muggle money exchange is more for those born to Muggle parents (aka Hermione & Co.) who need to exchange that money for wizarding money so they can buy their schoolbooks.. and everything else that they need that their parents give them money to buy..

We know that Squibs sometimes live in the Muggle world (Figgy), which i think is kind of obvious because life without magic has to be difficult if you are surrounded by it at all times (ohh Filch ;) ). However, Squibs themselves seem to be relatively rare and so there can't be a large amount of these..

I think that although the Half-Bloods know enough about the Muggle world to fit in, there is no way they would want to. They have discovered the wizarding world and gone to school to learn magic, and I don't think they'd throw that away for a life that'd be full of a lot more personal inconveniences (without magic to make everything easier).

Shacklebolt's presence seemed to be a huge necessity to provide security and safety for the current Prime Minister. If there are some witches and wizards in the Muggle world, I believe an undercover type of investigation / MoM work would account for most of this..

However, there is some speculation about Petunia's past.. and how some witches and wizards may have given up a life of magic due to extreme circumstances.

[Alz]

I am pretty sure that the Magical world does have people in the Muggle world - I think it is the best way of making sure that secrecy is maintained.
There are certain functions you would expect - Government for one - maybe law enforcement is another big one?
I think they need this infiltration to ensure that the two worlds are kept apart - they need to be able to influence the Muggle world when occasions dictate.
I think the Magical attitude towards the Muggle world borders arrogance - they look at Muggles as curiosities rather than equals - I think this is what lead to the divides with the likes of the Centaurs, Giants etc ...

[halliemei]

Seems to me that it's a necessity that Wizards would live/work among muggles. After all, Hogsmead is the only all-wizarding village left in the UK -- check PoA for proof. And the wizarding government/hospital, etc. aren't really big enough for ALL of the wizards to work there. I think like Alz that it's in everyone's best interest that wizards be in muggle government (for example), too.

[Sirius Potter Fan]

I think that although the Half-Bloods know enough about the Muggle world to fit in, there is no way they would want to. They have discovered the wizarding world and gone to school to learn magic, and I don't think they'd throw that away for a life that'd be full of a lot more personal inconveniences (without magic to make everything easier).
But you see that is kind of the catch here. Think of how pleased the Minister was with Shacklebolt . . . do you think he even had an idea of how to do his job the "real" way? Most Muggle jobs would be a breeze for a wizard or witch. The most successful would be where they can work alone in their own office, or something where they could be alone. Just a little magic, and a full day of "muggle work" is finished! they get paid . . . exchange it at Gringots . . . easy money! But, also wondering if some bored wizards may just want a muggle job for a new challenge?

[Alz]

I think some wizards volunteer to work in the Muggle world - but I think some have to be placed - as stated above in order for them to maintain their secrecy they need to be able to know what is going in the Muggle world and also be able to influence change ...
I think it seems almost patronising the way Rufus talks to the PM - it seems his comments belittle the Muggles - just because they don't understand their world they are almost ridiculed ... I still think the Wizarding world has the enemies it does because of this type of attitude!

[Sirius Potter Fan]

I still think the Wizarding world has the enemies it does because of this type of attitude! Now that is a big key here. Makes you almost wonder why Dumbledore refused to be Minister. You would certainly think that he would have known that he had the influence as Minister to change that very attitude. Or I guess maybe he thought he could do more to change that attitude by being with with the younger generations? He as well as Harry seem to have respect for and "connections" with most of the other "sentient" magical beings.

I think Wizards have the idea that Muggles aren't as "advanced" as they are, but, at the same time, some do recognise muggle ingenuity. Aurthur comes to mind first of course, but Hagrid is very impressed with the muggle creations he comes accross as well. And well, Dumbledore seems almost "at home" with muggles . . .

[Alz]

Dumbledore is almost the contra to general Wizarding attitudes and beliefs - he was friends with the centaurs, Mer people, House Elf's - well as you said pretty much everyone!
He would never have stayed as Minister because he believed too much in equality and the general magical world still feels it is on consensus the master race.
I think you are well observed once again - in order to change a society you have to start with the young - you cant teach old dog new tricks - but he was able to help shape and control the young magical community and I guess he hoped he would teach them values they perhaps aren't getting at home!

[Sirius Potter Fan]

in order to change a society you have to start with the young - you cant teach old dog new tricks - but he was able to help shape and control the young magical community and I guess he hoped he would teach them values they perhaps aren't getting at home! And I believe that Harry will be well placed to follow those very large foot steps . . . eventualy!:)

[SnarkologyMajor]

I think SPF and Alz are getting to the crux(teehee) of the problems w/the wizarding community-it seems to me that Voldemort is only a part of what is wrong with it. Getting rid of Voldemort is not going to fix the problems-it goes much deeper than that. Most of the wizards/witches seem to be completely ignorant about their own history(I think there's info. coming about their own history that will knock them off their feet), for many generations they have completely disenfranchised house elves, centuars, giants, mermaids, etc.-most seem to harbor misconceptions about Muggles(other than Arthur and a few) and seem to think that it's perfectly okay to go around obliviating them. They either seem to feel Muggles are really ignorant or they are deeply suspicious of them-how did this come about? Something usually triggers these things and it takes many generations to make real changes. I just can't imagine how Harry is supposed to fix all these things-by eliminating Voldemort, he can make a start yes-but...this is why it's so difficult to figure out what's going to happen-we seem to be missing a key part of how the wizarding world got this way in the first place. I guess this is why the "Cyclic Time" thread is still my favorite theory-if it all started w/Salazar 1,000 yrs ago and it has been recycling through all those generations, it does go a long way towards explaining the problems. The Dark Lord is really exceptional at revving up the fear, the spread of corruption, adding to suspicions, widening the gap between Muggles and Wizards, etc. etc....I could be completely on the wrong track with this, but I can't seem to figure out another explanation:eek:

[Alz]

I just think my issues are - how would it be if the tables were turned?
The magical world go to great lengths to hide from the Muggles - because they want to conceal their lives but see not issues flittering into the Muggles lives and what is more doing it subversively and also with agenda's - they tinker with the balance ..
It just seems kind of Voldemort in approach - yet they hate Voldemort and all he represents!
It's an irony of its own making - Voldemort feels he is better than everyone else given his decedents and abilities - yet the magical world trades on those values as well!

[Sirius Potter Fan]

Could this be a point that JKR is trying to make, only a bit subliminaly? How many times have people expressed ideas and opinions, but objected when they were actualy acted on? People think one way, but realizing that it is "politicly incorrect" deny that they think that way, and even speak against others that act on that belief. I mean don't we muggles have the same issues with racial equality? Some truly believe in it, some openly are against it, and others are against it, but to be "politicaly correct" they outwardly dissaprove. This is just a matter of different races in the magical world, with Muggles simply being seen by many as an inferior race, along with giants, centaurs, house elves . . .

[Alz]

But see, given how they see Voldemort and his followers you would figure they would look at their own actions no?
I think JKR is making a point that hypocrisy exists in the wizarding world - as much as their life and values are effected by the actions of a tyrant - they themselves aren't adverse to throwing a few stones!
In this big over adventure - it is fair to assume that the House Elfs, Centaurs, Giants and Muggles alike are all affected by the action of the wizarding world.
Interesting as it reflects so nicely real life huh?