noor
25-09-2006, 04:16
Are the Filch and Prince Families tied by Argus Filch's mother?
Someone helped me with possible answers to a few outstanding questions about first year Snape's knowledge of more hexes than most seventh years and the weird timing of Snape 'running' with Belletrix Black (per Sirius) even though she was much older than him, I think it ties to the Filch and Prince family trees, along with Voldemort's acquisition of the Ravenclaw relic. I believe Snape was raised at Hogwarts by his distant relations - Argus Filch and Irma (Filch) Pince (brother and sister - distant cousins of Snape through his mother).
Many people will think this is too complicated - but I remind you JKR has said she intends to tie the story up into a big knot. And we now SEEM to have JKR's word that Snape is working for Dumbledore's side and canon has certainly told us that Dumbledore trusted Severus Snape 'completely'. As does Hagrid. To me that suggests a family connection that causes Snape to hate Voldemort.
So hear we go on complete guesswork that ties up canon facts:
The Family Trees
? and ? Prince give birth to son (Eileen's father) and Agnes (dog lady at St Mungo's)
Son Prince marries ?, the heiress of the Ravenclaw relic and they have a daughter Eileen. Eileen's mother dies early. The relic passes to Eileen, down the female line. Agnes stands in as a mother to her young niece as much as she can.
Agnes Prince marries a Mr Filch and they give birth to son Argus and daughter Irma. Mr Filch is an abusive man and becomes particularly abusive when his son proves to be a squib. (This is possibly the memory Harry saw. Snape is a legilimens. That moment may have been Snape's memory OF dog lady's memory...not Snape's own childhood.)
The Relationships
I speculate Agnes Prince Filch (now dog lady of St Mungo's) was aunt and surrogate mother to Eileen (Prince) Snape. She is the Great Aunt of Severus. Squib Argus Filch of Hogwarts fame and his magical sister Irma are Eileen's cousins and therefore distantly related to Severus.
Voldemort's Interference
I speculate that when Voldemort came for Eileen's relic (assuming she had the Ravenclaw relic) he found Agnes Filch and her abusive husband in residence. Eileen had called in her surrogate mother to help with her new baby Severus. Voldemort killed Tobias and Eileen and setup Mr. Filch to take the blame for the murders - he left the baby alone (hence Lily's belief Voldemort wouldn't hurt Harry). I suspect that Agnes Prince Filch may be one of the seven registered animagii of the last century. Voldemort left her halfway transformed, again with Mr Filch, Argus Filch's father and Agnes's husband, taking the blame. Or perhaps better yet, the trauma of the scene is thought to have caused Agnes to 'make a mistake' leaving her in a state where she can only bark.
Final Consequences
If true, this pretty much decimated Severus's family. The ones that aren't dead, transformed or in Azkaban are outcasts. No one wanted anything to do with Irma and Argus because their father was thought to be a murderer. Dumbledore, who knew Eileen because of her defense of Hagrid in the first CoS opening, hires them as the Hogwarts librarian and caretaker. Perhaps Mr. Pince didn't die, but ran off when his wife seemed to be the daughter of a murderer - hence no one talks about him and the information is 'kind of restricted' per JKR. But who brings up baby Severus now? Does he know more hexes than most seventh years because he was brought up at Hogwarts by Irma and Argus?
Present Day
I do find it interesting that we never see Irma Pince and Severus Snape interacting but she was thought important enough to be included in the films. PS/SS gave us a scene where Filch could be playing the surrogate father role by binding Snape's leg after Fluffy bit him.
So the 'son' that the nurse at St. Mungo's says is coming to visit Agnes would be Argus Filch. And the idea that Severus Snape learned healing to try to heal Agnes is still accurate, he wanted to heal the mother of his surrogate parents, Argus and Irma. And Snape hates the world for treating them as outcasts. And perhaps Lily helped Severus with his efforts to heal Agnes, and Lily was perceptive enough to see that Agnes was trying to tell them something...so Snape learned legilimens. This would have Snape learning via legilimens that Voldemort was the one that killed his parents and ruined the lives of his surrogate parents by pinning the blame on their father.
Conclusion
Wild? I don't know...it is supported by a number of canon tidbits. As I mentioned earlier it explains how Snape 'ran' with Belletrix Black even though Bella was at least seven years older than Severus...Severus was at Hogwarts the entire time she went to school there. JKR is sticking our nose in the fact that Bella is significantly older than Snape - so old that one would think they didn't overlap even though JKR deliberately says they did, a possible clue. And this may be why Severus Snape chose Slytherin rather than his mother's house - Ravenclaw. Because Bella talked him into it.
As an added bonus it explains why James hated Severus Snape on first sight as canon tells us - Bella liked Severus and Sirius hated Bella. Perhaps Bella came home in the summers and enjoyed testing the hexes she learned from Snape on Sirius. That would probably be enough for James to hate Severus on sight.
And of course it amply explains Dumbledore's 'I trust Severus Snape completely' - he knows Severus wants to kill the man that killed his parents.
Just having fun speculating.
Someone helped me with possible answers to a few outstanding questions about first year Snape's knowledge of more hexes than most seventh years and the weird timing of Snape 'running' with Belletrix Black (per Sirius) even though she was much older than him, I think it ties to the Filch and Prince family trees, along with Voldemort's acquisition of the Ravenclaw relic. I believe Snape was raised at Hogwarts by his distant relations - Argus Filch and Irma (Filch) Pince (brother and sister - distant cousins of Snape through his mother).
Many people will think this is too complicated - but I remind you JKR has said she intends to tie the story up into a big knot. And we now SEEM to have JKR's word that Snape is working for Dumbledore's side and canon has certainly told us that Dumbledore trusted Severus Snape 'completely'. As does Hagrid. To me that suggests a family connection that causes Snape to hate Voldemort.
So hear we go on complete guesswork that ties up canon facts:
The Family Trees
? and ? Prince give birth to son (Eileen's father) and Agnes (dog lady at St Mungo's)
Son Prince marries ?, the heiress of the Ravenclaw relic and they have a daughter Eileen. Eileen's mother dies early. The relic passes to Eileen, down the female line. Agnes stands in as a mother to her young niece as much as she can.
Agnes Prince marries a Mr Filch and they give birth to son Argus and daughter Irma. Mr Filch is an abusive man and becomes particularly abusive when his son proves to be a squib. (This is possibly the memory Harry saw. Snape is a legilimens. That moment may have been Snape's memory OF dog lady's memory...not Snape's own childhood.)
The Relationships
I speculate Agnes Prince Filch (now dog lady of St Mungo's) was aunt and surrogate mother to Eileen (Prince) Snape. She is the Great Aunt of Severus. Squib Argus Filch of Hogwarts fame and his magical sister Irma are Eileen's cousins and therefore distantly related to Severus.
Voldemort's Interference
I speculate that when Voldemort came for Eileen's relic (assuming she had the Ravenclaw relic) he found Agnes Filch and her abusive husband in residence. Eileen had called in her surrogate mother to help with her new baby Severus. Voldemort killed Tobias and Eileen and setup Mr. Filch to take the blame for the murders - he left the baby alone (hence Lily's belief Voldemort wouldn't hurt Harry). I suspect that Agnes Prince Filch may be one of the seven registered animagii of the last century. Voldemort left her halfway transformed, again with Mr Filch, Argus Filch's father and Agnes's husband, taking the blame. Or perhaps better yet, the trauma of the scene is thought to have caused Agnes to 'make a mistake' leaving her in a state where she can only bark.
Final Consequences
If true, this pretty much decimated Severus's family. The ones that aren't dead, transformed or in Azkaban are outcasts. No one wanted anything to do with Irma and Argus because their father was thought to be a murderer. Dumbledore, who knew Eileen because of her defense of Hagrid in the first CoS opening, hires them as the Hogwarts librarian and caretaker. Perhaps Mr. Pince didn't die, but ran off when his wife seemed to be the daughter of a murderer - hence no one talks about him and the information is 'kind of restricted' per JKR. But who brings up baby Severus now? Does he know more hexes than most seventh years because he was brought up at Hogwarts by Irma and Argus?
Present Day
I do find it interesting that we never see Irma Pince and Severus Snape interacting but she was thought important enough to be included in the films. PS/SS gave us a scene where Filch could be playing the surrogate father role by binding Snape's leg after Fluffy bit him.
So the 'son' that the nurse at St. Mungo's says is coming to visit Agnes would be Argus Filch. And the idea that Severus Snape learned healing to try to heal Agnes is still accurate, he wanted to heal the mother of his surrogate parents, Argus and Irma. And Snape hates the world for treating them as outcasts. And perhaps Lily helped Severus with his efforts to heal Agnes, and Lily was perceptive enough to see that Agnes was trying to tell them something...so Snape learned legilimens. This would have Snape learning via legilimens that Voldemort was the one that killed his parents and ruined the lives of his surrogate parents by pinning the blame on their father.
Conclusion
Wild? I don't know...it is supported by a number of canon tidbits. As I mentioned earlier it explains how Snape 'ran' with Belletrix Black even though Bella was at least seven years older than Severus...Severus was at Hogwarts the entire time she went to school there. JKR is sticking our nose in the fact that Bella is significantly older than Snape - so old that one would think they didn't overlap even though JKR deliberately says they did, a possible clue. And this may be why Severus Snape chose Slytherin rather than his mother's house - Ravenclaw. Because Bella talked him into it.
As an added bonus it explains why James hated Severus Snape on first sight as canon tells us - Bella liked Severus and Sirius hated Bella. Perhaps Bella came home in the summers and enjoyed testing the hexes she learned from Snape on Sirius. That would probably be enough for James to hate Severus on sight.
And of course it amply explains Dumbledore's 'I trust Severus Snape completely' - he knows Severus wants to kill the man that killed his parents.
Just having fun speculating.