Painful Lessons?

[Alz]

‘Potter – what would I get if I added powdered root of asphodel to an infusion or wormwood?’
‘Let’s try again. Potter, where would you look if I told you to find me a bezoar?’
‘What is the difference, Potter, between monkshood and wolfsbane?’

Outwards and in conjuction with other parts of this chapter - it looks like Snape is picking on Harry making him look like a fool ...
Was Snape once again picking on Harry when he asked him the three questions about the potions - or was he perhaps being brutal so Harry remembered them?

I dont know - it is a long shot but I wonder of Snape did this on purpose so that Harry would remember the moment he first met Snape properly and also remember what Snape's first few sentances were ... for later on?

[Nagini]

The thing about those questions that he asked Harry was that Hermione knew the answers. I know Hermione is a very smart witch but she could only have read about those things in the books they were given for school. Perhaps Snape was testing to how intelligent Harry was and to see if he had a flair for potions? Not likely I know!

[Alz]

Yah as I said - it seemed a long shot - but just makes me wonder really ...
This is Harry's first real dialogue with Snape - a proper one on one meeting - as such and as discussed elsewhere - Snape was out to make an impression - and I am sure Harry would remember this first meeting ...
I think Snape counted on this and as such decided to slip some information that may prove to be useful to Harry later on ...
It seems a little far fetched but think about it - if you wanted to pass information in a clandestine way and ensure the target remembered it - then you know what they say about first impressions!
I think - IMHO - that a time may come where Harry might need this information - dont ask me when or where ... just a feeling :)

[Tinkerbell]

Ummm, this is a good point.

Was Snape not just being a horrible git to Harry but showing him up in front of his classmates so show that he knows absolutely nothing about the world of magic, but actually conveying to him the vital things he needs to know in order to both defeat Voldemort in the future and protect himself during that epic battle?!

Good one Blaise!

[Nagini]

Yah as I said - it seemed a long shot - but just makes me wonder really ...
This is Harry's first real dialogue with Snape - a proper one on one meeting - as such and as discussed elsewhere - Snape was out to make an impression - and I am sure Harry would remember this first meeting ...
I think Snape counted on this and as such decided to slip some information that may prove to be useful to Harry later on ...
It seems a little far fetched but think about it - if you wanted to pass information in a clandestine way and ensure the target remembered it - then you know what they say about first impressions!
I think - IMHO - that a time may come where Harry might need this information - dont ask me when or where ... just a feeling :)

You may actually have a point there. I know we have all read the books many times but I had until recently only read PS/SS once quickly (then I lost my copy) but I still remembered that line and most of those words.

I am no expert on writing or on the way something is written but could that part be written in a way that makes it easier for the reader to remember? The layout perhaps of that paragraph? It may be that we are being pointed towards something that happens later in the books.

[Boing]

Okay, so let's look at what the answers are:

asphodel and wormwood make a sleeping potion so powerful it is known as the Draught of Living Death

bezoar is a stone taken from the stomach of a goat and it will save you from most poisons

monkshood and wolfsbane are the same and go by the name aconite (we don't find out what aconite is or does)

Well, from those descriptions given by Snape, they seem to be at first just what we all thought - things far beyond a first year student, things that show Harry that Snape is in a position of knowledge and power.

But, upon second look - especially after reading more books, Blaise may be on to something. I mean, those are pretty powerful things Snape was pointing out to Harry. Draught of Living Death sure could come in handy as well as something that will save him from most poisons. I just wish we knew what aconite was used for . . .

[Alz]

Check this out ...


The name Aconitum may be derived from akone, meaning "cliffy" or "rocky", because aconite tends to grow in such areas. According to Greek mythology, aconite became poisonous from the foam that dropped from the mouth of Cerberus, the gatekeeper of hell, when Hercules dragged him up from the nether regions. Medea, priestess of the goddess Hecate, attempted to poison her stepson Theseus using aconite so that her birth son could inherit her husband's throne. Aconite is believed to be among the ingredients of "flying ointments", potions used by witches to create the sensation of flight.


Also - draught of the living dead - like some would say that described Voldemort at times right!
Umm - you know this just gets more interesting!
Wonder if Snape is trying to allow Harry something that will allow him a sensation of flight for some reason?

[Hermione]

I don't think Snape was trying to give Harry information, just make his life miserable. He would protect Harry, if the time came, but he does loath Harry due to the reseblance of his father in him.

[Alz]

Well - it is a little out there I know - but worthy of people's thoughts ;)
When it comes to Snape - I like to look at any and all things surrounding him and what he says.
It does look a little tenuous but wanted to know what others thought - so thanks for your thoughts!

[Alz]

OK - sorry I have to do this ......

GO ME!!!!

[Fortescue]

Outwards and in conjuction with other parts of this chapter - it looks like Snape is picking on Harry making him look like a fool ...
Was Snape once again picking on Harry when he asked him the three questions about the potions - or was he perhaps being brutal so Harry remembered them?

I dont know - it is a long shot but I wonder of Snape did this on purpose so that Harry would remember the moment he first met Snape properly and also remember what Snape's first few sentances were ... for later on?

***SPOILER****
Just thought I'd add that just in case :rolleyes:

That's a great question considering what happened at the end of HBP. Remember some of Snape's last words to Harry, "Keep your mouth shut and your mind closed, Potter." It was as if he was trying to help him - make him a better wizard, something he could never do when he taught Harry Occlumency simply because of the animosity between them.

Good call, Blaise!! :rolleyes:

[Weasleyfanforever]

Actually, I really think there may be something to this, simply because of a quote in HBP:

And there it was, scrawled right across a long list of antidotes:

Just shove a bezoar down their throats.

Harry stared at these words for a moment. Hadn't he once, long ago, heard of bezoars? Hadn't Snape mentioned them in their first ever Potions lesson? 'A stone taken from the stomach of a goat, which will protect from most poisons.'

Harry specifically recalls the lesson mentioned at the beginning ofthis thread, which I think gives a certain amount of credence to this theory...

[Alz]

Actually, I really think there may be something to this, simply because of a quote in HBP:



Harry specifically recalls the lesson mentioned at the beginning ofthis thread, which I think gives a certain amount of credence to this theory...
That was kinda what I was being all smug about :D
Goes to show - the smallest piece of information ...
Take a look at my Chapter by Chapter submission here (http://www.thefinalhorcrux.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2312) just under the Points of Note & Interest section - even though the dates says otherwise this was written BEFORE HBP!

[itrustsnape]

Ok, I confess, I've never re-read the books, so, over the weekend, I re-read books 5 & 6, and tonight just said the heck with it and started book 1 again. Something kicked me between the eyes. I'm not sure what I think yet; but wonder if any of you have ideas, as I'm sure I am not the only person who noticed this.

What was the very first question Snape ever asked Harry in class?
(In the clearly fame isn't everything exchange)

"Potter!" said Snape suddenly. "What would I get if I added powdered root of asphodel to an infusion of wormwood?" (PS/SS 137,US)

Then he asks about bezoars. Then the difference between monkshood and wolfsbane.

"For your information, Potter, asphodel and wormwood make a sleeping potion so powerful it is known as the Draught of Living Death. A bezoar is a stone taken from the stomach of a goat and it will save you from most poisons. As for monkshood and wolfsbane, they are the same plant, which also goes by the name of aconite. Well? Why aren't you all copying that down?" (PS/SS 138,US)

Well holy crap, Potions Master, I am copying it down now! ;)

In HBP, Professor Slughorn shows four potions in his first class:
Veritaserum, Polyjuice Potion, Amortentia and Feilx Felicis.
In that class, Harry makes a perfect Draught of Living Death. (with the help of Snape's old potions book)

OK..the bezoar saves Ron in HBP.
Wolfsbane helps Lupin in PoA.
Amortentia, was accidentally taken by Ron.
Polyjuice was used by the trio in CoS and again in HBP by Crabbe and Goyle.
Veritaserm was attempted to be used on Harry in OotP by Umbridge (but Snape made a fake one)
Feilx Felicis helped the DA in the fight at the end of HBP.

Which potion never got another mention; but COULD have been used at the end of HBP?
Draught of Living Death. (What was that stuff DD drank in the cave)?

...also..."He told me to do it or he'll kill me. I've got no choice." "He cannot kill you if you are already dead. Come over to the right side Draco, and we can hide you more completely than you can possibly imagine. What is more, I can send members of the Order to your mother tonight to hide her likewise. Nobody would be surprised that you had died in your attempt to kill me -- forgive me, but Lord Voldemort probably expects it. Nor would the Death Eaters be surprised that we had captured and killed your mother -- it is what they would do themselves, after all. Your father is safe at the moment in Azkaban...When the time comes we can protect him too. Come over to the right side, Draco...you are not a killer..." Malfoy stared at Dumbledore. (HBP 591, US)

"He cannot kill you if you are already dead...
we can hide you more completely than you can possibly imagine"

hmmmmm...who's this "we" and what all are "they" hiding?

...as I said, I'm not quite sure where I'm going with this yet...any ideas?
I was sure DD was dead; but then again...why did Snape's AK act more like Expelliarmus?

[The Frozen North]

Could be right but I'm afraid that despite this being another possible way for DD to still be alive I really can't think of anything to add, you've pretty much made the main points already :D

[Seeker615]

"He cannot kill you if you are already dead...
we can hide you more completely than you can possibly imagine"

hmmmmm...who's this "we" and what all are "they" hiding?

...as I said, I'm not quite sure where I'm going with this yet...any ideas?
I was sure DD was dead; but then again...why did Snape's AK act more like Expelliarmus?


I am assuming that "they" are members of the Order of the Phoenix. I would assume that they would have hidden Draco and his mom via the Fidelus charm.

Maybe Draco would have had to drink that Draught of Living Death to look like he was killed in his attempt to off Dumbledore? Then the Order could have removed his body and hid him safely? (Just Speculating)

I was also most curious about how all the potions Snape mentioned came into play throughout the books.

And I do admit that it was strange how Dumbledore went over the tower when he was killed. My thought on that was that maybe being as powerful as Dumbledore was it took a lot of energy to kill him so the curse forced him off the tower?? Someone on another site thought Snape purposely did this to keep Greyback and the other DE's away from him. Or maybe keep him from being found right away when the Order got through.

[Alz]

Hiya itrustsnape ..

Hope you don't mind but I merged this with a thread I created a while ago - as you will see from date - that picked up on the text and prompted me to create this thread called painful lessons.
I was recently quoted as 'over-analysis' when I quoted this but glad to see that I am not the only over-analyser!
You have taken it and expanded it - so the thread is now yours but wanted to have it here with mine as they kind of link very nicely.

I think Snape is making impressions on Harry - I think this thread is a good example of it - when Harry first reads bezoar in HBP - he instantly reminisces of when Snape told him about them in PS/SS - I personally think that was JKR being a total genius and showing that she does indeed have all 7 books penned out and knows where to put what ... as we have seen other cases of this (hand of glory, broken vanishing cabinet) we now understand our task as well as hers - to try and locate all the clues ... they are there if you look for them!

Nice thread itrustsnape!