View Full Version : The wand chooses the Wizard ...
This is more of a question - but we had the famous line from Ollivander that the wand chooses the wizard ...
We also know that in Harry and Voldemort's case they share the same type ... we also know the effect when the brother wands meet each other ...
The question is this - did the same wand as Voldemort choose Harry because it sensed Voldemort in him?
We are told that Voldemort transferred some of his powers to Harry that night - as well as some other things - could it be that the wand had the same issues as the Sorting Hat - and sensing Voldemort in Harry?
Could it be that Harry isnt using what is his best wand because of this?
I guess I kind of got the impression from that line that the wand would only "perform" for the right wizard. The other wands either didn't do much of anything when Harry waved them or were crazy with the results. I think that what is meant by that is that only the correct person will be able to harness the power of the wand and use it correctly.
In that sense, I don't think Harry has the wrong wand because he has some of Voldemort in him. I think he has the wand that is most powerful for him, one that he can control, and one that "listens" to him in return.
This is more of a question - but we had the famous line from Ollivander that the wand chooses the wizard ...
We also know that in Harry and Voldemort's case they share the same type ... we also know the effect when the brother wands meet each other ...
The question is this - did the same wand as Voldemort choose Harry because it sensed Voldemort in him?
We are told that Voldemort transferred some of his powers to Harry that night - as well as some other things - could it be that the wand had the same issues as the Sorting Hat - and sensing Voldemort in Harry?
Could it be that Harry isnt using what is his best wand because of this?
In relation to another thread, Harry could have been handed that wand because Ollivander knew or suspected that it would sense Voldemort in Harry. Although Harry does not seem to sense anything bad about his wand, and is indeed quite fond of it and he also in the books tried out several wands before that wand chose him so perhaps I am barking up the wrong tree there. :p
What is also interesting about this is how Dumbledore comes into play again. The pheonix tail feathers in both wands come from his pheonix. I cannot help thinking that he is mixed up in this somewhere too.
I think the film best captures what happens when a person gets the wrong wand - so I have to say that in order to perform magic properly - especially at that age of youth - the wand has to match ... in this case is the wand chosen in Harry's case because of him or it is the brother core seeing Voldemort and his initial selection of that wand?
Gini makes a good point - I wonder if fawkes/Dumbledore had any imput into this?
Harry so far has been able to do some pretty powerful magic for the age he is - Most notably the Patronus which we have learned some adult wizards cannot even perform. I think that the wand he received was intended for him - Otherwise I doubt he would have been able to do some of the things he does.
Yah but see - is the wand channeling his side or the side imposed by Voldemort?
I think that the hat was seeing Voldemort in him - and just wonder if the same with the wand?
Granted he can do some great stuff - but is that actually him or is it the impression left by Voldemort?
This could go some way to explain Harry's ultimate fate - as in if the wand is channelling the Voldemort touch ... once Voldemort is gone from Harry, his head and life ... where would that leave him?
Just the brother cores and stuff ... just seems a really nice twist in my head :D
MissWhizbee
20-12-2004, 15:53
I have never really thought that the sorting hat saw Voldemort's traits in Harry, (they may have been similar traits to those Voldemort had, the thirst to prove ones self, smarts, bravery, but I don't think they were inherently Voldemort's traits alone). It seems that the sorting hat would have probably scene those same traits in Tom Riddle but they would have been self serving, whereas Harry's aspirations were humble in wanting to live up to everything everyone thought he was.
Maybe in the same way the wands could sense a love of the pheonix inside both Harry and Voldemort. Voldemort would love the bird because it represents eternal life (dying and being born again from its ashes). Harry loves the pheonix because it is a gentle animal, can heal, prizes loyalty, can carry a heavy burden, and its song is reassuring to him.
So maybe the similarities in Voldemort and Harry are really at opposition to each other and although both the wands and the sorting hat could see their similarities they also saw the differences that make them unique and as different from each other as they could possibly be. And so it wasn't just because Harry was similar to Voldemort but also because he was so far different from him that the wand with the pheonix feather core chose him and why he was put into Gryffindor instead of Slytherin.
Personally I dont think Riddles obsession with death happened until he found out his mortaility was in question ....
But on the other hand - what if it runs deeper?
We know he lost his Mum during his birth - perhaps that made him want to live forever?
I agree it is all about choices - and indeed Voldemort's and Harry's paths seem vastly different ... but I really think the Hat was seeing Voldemort via Harry ... the spirit of Voldemort still had a profound effect on Harry even at that stage ...
It just seems to work in my head the similarities that JKR plays out between them - I used to think they would turn out to be related but JKR killed that at world book day chat ...
So I have been looking at other ways they could be linked ... and we know the scar is useful for that ... so I wonder if anyone looks into Harry's head they are seeing the full Harry and not a clouded Harry mixed with Voldemort's passed powers and mental link ...
Tinkerbell
23-12-2004, 11:51
I don't know if this is going on track a tad, but after reading the other posts here, and particularly Blaise's point about perhaps Harry doesn't have the right wand for him - what if in either HBP or Book 7 Harry gets another wand? Perhaps then the brother wand effect would not 'protect' Voldemort then, and Harry would be able to vanquish him?
Weasleyfanforever
23-12-2004, 17:13
I think that's a good idea Tink. It would certainly get rid of the not being able to defeat him with magic thing. I wonder if maybe Harry would get a new wand and Voldemort wouldn't know about it, so he would be wary to fight him using magic because of what happened the last time...
Yah actually I wonder if that is about right?
I wonder if Harry will switch wands and catch Voldemort offside ...
I do think that the phoenix core is kinda right for Harry - I mean the Fawkes thing etc ...
.... OMG unles .... Umm that could be a thread for wild speculation!
What :eek: you can't just leave it at that... ;)
On reflection it's possible that the wands chose Voldemort and Harry because of their other similarities. Voldemort is a half blood, his mother died when he was at a young age (giving birth to him no less), he never knew either of his parents. Harry lost both his parents because Voldemort murdered them, he didn't know either of them. They both had unhappy upbringings, Voldemort hated the orphanage and Harry, quite understandably hated the Dursleys and both are very gifted magically. Well we are reminded again and again that Harry is gifted but dont see a lot of it until it really matters - like producing a powerful patronus. We saw just how powerful Voldemort was, he almost became immortal.
LOL - you know I think I forgot what I was gonna place in wild spec :o
I will re-read and see if I can get it back :p
We are told when Harry was attacked he inherited some of Voldemort's powers - as such he has some of Voldemort's traits ...
What if the wand picked up on the Voldemort part of Harry and not Harry himself?
What I mean to say is perhaps Harry isnt fulfilling his best because he is using a wand that sensed the strong Voldemort traits in him and such went for the similar kind of wand?
I wonder if Harry was to loose any of this Voldemort traits in him - he might get another wand that is more in tune with him?
It's like the sorting hat - it isnt a 100% correct process - I think the wand just saw the very strong powers of Voldemort in Harry ...
I was thinking that the wand somehow "knows" about the prophecy and put itself in Harry's hands because it knew that it could save him from some tough spots he got himelf into with Voldemort.
But my goodness, if Harry has the wrong wand and he can do the magic we have seen - :eek: that's one powerful little wizard! I can't imagine if that is true and he got the right wand . . .
Actually what you have both been saying kinda makes sense. Hermione is always going on about Harry being a really powerful wizard and its mentioned throughout all the books. Everyone has built Harry up to be the one who managed to escape Voldemort four times and perform a patronus charm to get rid of the Dementors etc (I'm sure your all famillar with the books ;)). But if you actually look at it, Harry struggles with his studies and his magic through most of the books. The only thing he has found easy was flying the rest including the Patronus charm which I know is a powerful bit of magic took time for him to learn. Against Voldemort in the power stakes he just doesn't compare and he isn't even as powerful as Hermione who is a witch of his own age.
This could be attributed to the wand actually stopping Harry from reaching HIS own potential as it is only feeling the parts of Voldemort that passed over which so far haven't needed a wand - parseltongue and some kind of occulmency with Voldemort. If Harry is as powerful as he is made out to be, perhaps this wand is holding him back from becoming that powerful wizard as I am not convinced we have seen his full magical abilities yet.
See I think if the wand is feeding off the essence of Voldemort that remains in Harry - then we will always have Priori Incatem if these two puppies start to rumble again ...
BUT, if indeed Harry's wand only chose him because of the Voldemort feelings - then it is plausible Harry would find true power in another wand - the deadlock could be broke and these two could duel to the death at some point ...
I know it seems a little out there - but maybe worth a thought or 2 - because when Harry and Voldemort do meet - then can use wands - then something has to give to break that deadlock.
Sirius-fan-forever
03-02-2005, 20:45
I think the wands choose the wizard based on probably several characteristics. Harry's wand is brother to voldemorts wand and we know that voldemort's powers got transferred to Harry during the attack. I don't think that these are trivial powers and that the wand only chose him because in essence it reminded him of voldemort. These powers that were transferred make the core powers in Harry very similar to voldemorts...aside from that and similarities in their personalities and circumstances in life. I think that this wand chosing Harry, if anything is beneficial. I dunno...but my theory still doesn't explain how the two will duel without one getting a new wand. So maybe there will be a change of wands for one reason or another.
See that is the thing - we know the PI moment in GoF makes them unviable to fight via duel in the big ending - but if it is possible the wand picked up on the essence of Voldemort in Harry - one day he might pick up another wand and do many, many great things he couldnt do with his current one.
OT alert and asked in another thread - but I wonder how much of what Voldemort left in Harry that night made Harry what he is today? Just a point I like - dont debate that here please :o
yarvelling
06-02-2005, 14:16
It is indeed pretty clear from the first book that the wand chose Harry because it sensed/felt the power in him. I believe that the powers that Voldemort left in Harry are an integral part of Harry and his personality, and of course the root of his being a more powerful wizard than many of his fellow students. I don't believe that the wand is responsible for this power though; it is Harry alone, who through his developing years at Hogwarts is discovering magic and how to use it, is finding out slowly just how powerful he can be.
The wand, like the Sorting Hat, will have felt Harrys' inherant goodness, and courage, and as such is surely just a means of channeling the power that Harry tries to exert when casting spells, albeit a very powerful conduit!
I also don't feel that Harry would have to use a different wand in order to defeat Voldemort, as it was made clear in the first couple of books that a different wand as never as effective as your own 'chosen' wand. Harry's wand, like Harry, if it is to defeat Voldemort, will almost certainly be able to chanel Harry's power effectively, as we saw in GoF, and as Harry's powers increase then so will his wands' power.
Of course, the words of the profecy (OotP) are ambiguous and we can't be really certain as to their meaning, but it may not be in Harrys' best interests to even try to kill Voldemort, and the wand even, may decide that it would not be prudent! That also depends upon whether JKR allows Harry to learn the killing curse in the forthcoming books! And also whether Voldemort finds out the wording of the prophecy........
Tinkerbell
06-02-2005, 14:21
I am currently listening to GoF on audio CD, and got to thinking about the wand chooses the wizard thing when we have the wand weighing ceremony and we hear about Fleur's wand containing a Veela hair and that her grandmother was a Veela. This got me to thinking that perhaps Harry WILL change his wand and therefore he will be able to defeat Voldemort, and one of the important things will be the significance of the wand's core.
We are aware that wand cores come from phoenix feathers, dragon heart strings and unicorn tail hairs - how about a tail hair from a Centaur? Possibly from Firenze???
yarvelling
06-02-2005, 14:33
I'm not sure...I like that idea, but I 'feel' that the bond between the wands and their respective owners is more important than has so far been suggested; it was significant enough to make a 'bit of a big deal' out of it in both book and film, and as Ollivander said, "we can expect great things"....I don't think this has yet happened; the wand may even become the pivotal point to the whole story as it is so deeply linked to Harry and Voldemort!
Well see - this might be a little off-topic - but some of us have questioned Ollivander's motivations and just say for a second he is a little shady and leans a little towards the dark side - he would be pleased that young Potter took the brother wand because he might have expected the kind of Priori Incantem moment we saw in GoF ... just a thought again :)
Fortescue
11-04-2005, 02:04
I think Harry has a bit of Voldemort in him, the magical aspects he got the night Voldemort attacked him, but I think the connection to the wands is all phoenix. Fawkes is Dumbledore's pet, and I believe the bird comes with the job of headmaster. As for the Sorting Hat - it saw in Harry the power and determination to match and defeat Voldemort, not specifically a part of Voldemort.
The connection of wand cores makes sense.
1. Dumbledore owns Fawkes and his Patronus is a phoenix.
2. Dumbledore is Tom/Voldemort's prior headmaster and the only one You-Know- Who ever feared :) and he is Harry's current headmaster and mentor.
3. Voldemort and Harry's wand cores come from a single feather from Fawkes tail, obviously, a very powerful magical substance.
4. In the Chamber of Secrets, Tom/Voldemort recalls too late, the legend of the phoenix as Fawkes tears heal Harry's wound from the basilisk, saving Harry's life.
5. The phoenix song gives Harry courage allowing him to do more and go on when his strength runs low, not only in the chamber, but also in the graveyard with Voldemort. The phoenix song emanates from the web of lights and gives Harry the courage and strength to hold his wand and force the bead of light toward Voldemort.
6. After the Triwizard Tournament, just the simple noise Fawkes makes as he sits on Harry's knee gives Harry the courage to tell his story to Dumbledore and Sirius.
There are many phoenix legends in print, and all of them indicate that there can only be one bird alive on earth at a time - some say the bird lives a hundred years before it ignites and others say eight hundred to twelve hundred. I've read several over the years and none of them are the same. That is why, in Harry's second year, it is so amazing that Fawkes picked that exact moment when Harry walked into Dumbledore's office to burst into flames. Even if Fawkes follows a hundred year cycle, it was quite opportune for him to catch fire at that exact moment.
There seems to be a direct connection between Dumbledore, Harry and Fawkes. It could be that this is the force that will win out over Voldemort. When Harry's wand chose him that day at Ollivander's. Mr. Ollivander immediately sent Dumbledore a letter to tell him the news. It could be the wands and their connection to Fawkes and Dumbledore are key to Harry's strength in the final battle. In Ollivander's that day, he told Harry that Lily's wand was good for Charms and James's wand was good for Transfiguration, but he never told Harry what his wand was good for!?! It could be that Harry's wand is the key. It has already helped him against Voldemort once in the graveyard; it's possible it will help him again.
See this is another reason why I think Dumbledore is definately up to something and knows more than we thought possible.
*What if* he KNEW way before Riddle became Voldemort, that it was going to happen? *what if* he had those two wands made, knowing they would one day face each other?
Yes, the wand chooses the wizard, but there isn't just one wand made per wizard or else they couldn't get a new one!
Is it just a coincidence that the bird that gave his feathers for the wands, is 'owned' by Dumbledore?
The question I have is why does the same core wand afford one bearer more protection that the other?
What I am saying is everyone is saying that it gives Harry this and gives Harry that - but remember as far as we can see - both holders of the wands were chosen by the wands - both should offer the same protection and indeed both are using the power of the phoenix.
Interesting is what you associate with a Phoenix - and what Voldemort was ultimatly trying to achieve .... makes me think long and hard exactly how matched and what powers this wand can give to a bad magic person as well as the good :)
Fortescue
11-04-2005, 15:34
The question I have is why does the same core wand afford one bearer more protection that the other?
What I am saying is everyone is saying that it gives Harry this and gives Harry that - but remember as far as we can see - both holders of the wands were chosen by the wands - both should offer the same protection and indeed both are using the power of the phoenix.
Interesting is what you associate with a Phoenix - and what Voldemort was ultimatly trying to achieve .... makes me think long and hard exactly how matched and what powers this wand can give to a bad magic person as well as the good :)
We see different people using wands that were hand-me-downs. Ron used Charlie's old wand until he broke it in the Ford Anglia, and Neville used his father's old wand, who was a powerful auror, yet Neville has little talent as a wizard. In Ron's case, he got a new wand at the beginning of his third year, but we have seen no huge increase in magical talent from him. Just because they didn't hum and glow when they first touched their wand doesn't mean the wand won't work for them.
Harry is the only person we've actually witnessed testing wands to find the right one. If he would have kept trying wands, might he have found one that hummed, or shot one or two sparks out of the end instead of the light show he created with the wand he ended up buying? Maybe a few sparks is enough to indicate that the wand is compatible with the wizard, but in Harry's case, his wand was an exceptional fit.
Maybe in Voldemort's case, his wand was't quite as much of a "perfect fit" as Harry’s was. It was obvious in the graveyard. Either Harry had more sense of mind, or Voldemort was too freaked out about what was happening. Harry's the one who focused his mind and made the light bead move back toward Voldemort's wand. I'd say that's pretty powerful magic for a young boy pitted agains the most powerful Dark Wizard in the world. I think the phoenix core gives Harry a slight advantage over Voldemort. Just guessing though ;)
I don't think Harry's wand gave him more protection, but I do think he had the right state of mind at that moment. Voldemort was thrown off by what was happening, just long enough for Harry to get the upper hand.
I think that there is more than one wand compatible for each wizard. As Fortescue said, some have used hand me downs, others have had to buy a second. I think it has all to do with the core, the wood, and the wizards time of birth etc, to find a suitable one.
Sir Cadogan
11-04-2005, 16:28
I think the phoenix core gives Harry a slight advantage over Voldemort. Just guessing though ;)
Well let me add another guess:
First, let's assume that the phoenix who gave the feathers is Fawkes.
Second, let's remember that Harry has established a special relationship with Fawkes in the meantime - especially visible in CoS, when Fawkes fluttered along bringing Harry the sword. The reason Dumbledore gives Harry is something like: "You must have shown particular loyalty to me, otherwise Fawkes wouldn't have done this", and it's true, Harry defended Dumbledore in Tom Riddle's face.
Third, we could as well assume (based on solid speculation) that there is some kind of link that still exists between the phoenix feathers and their owner - and that Fawkes can somehow still influence (to some degree) how well this wand works. This would mean that Harry's wand always works a little better because Fawkes likes him (because, in turn, Harry trusts and supports Dumbledore) - and that Voldemort's wand will always work less than ideally because Fawkes can somehow reduce its effect, even if only a little bit.
Oh maybe I should go to bed now - it's almost half past two in the morning here ... Night, everybody.
Sir Cadogan I believe somewhere in OotP, Dumbledore tells Harry that the feather in his wand came from Fawkes...
Fortescue
12-04-2005, 01:39
Well let me add another guess:
First, let's assume that the phoenix who gave the feathers is Fawkes.
Second, let's remember that Harry has established a special relationship with Fawkes in the meantime - especially visible in CoS, when Fawkes fluttered along bringing Harry the sword. The reason Dumbledore gives Harry is something like: "You must have shown particular loyalty to me, otherwise Fawkes wouldn't have done this", and it's true, Harry defended Dumbledore in Tom Riddle's face.
Third, we could as well assume (based on solid speculation) that there is some kind of link that still exists between the phoenix feathers and their owner - and that Fawkes can somehow still influence (to some degree) how well this wand works. This would mean that Harry's wand always works a little better because Fawkes likes him (because, in turn, Harry trusts and supports Dumbledore) - and that Voldemort's wand will always work less than ideally because Fawkes can somehow reduce its effect, even if only a little bit.
Oh maybe I should go to bed now - it's almost half past two in the morning here ... Night, everybody.
As kashlie said, Dumbledore admits in GoF that the feathers used in Harry and Voldemort's wand did come from Fawkes, that's why the whole Prior Incantatem event happened. Fawkes is drawn to Harry as Harry is to Fawkes - not only did he go to Harry's aid in the chamber, but in GoF, when Sirius ushered Harry into Dumbledore's office after the graveyard scene, Fawkes immediately flew to Harry's side. I think there is a big connection between the two - and as I mentioned before, Harry draws great strength from Fawkes - unlike Tom Riddle in the chamber who called Fawkes a songbird.
Voldemort's wand gives him power as Mr. Ollivander confessed in the wand shop, but I think Harry's connection to the phoenix feather is much stronger and more direct.
Sir Cadogan I like your theory on Fawkes being able to control the power of the wands - I never thought of that, but that would definitely give Harry the advantage.
Sir Cadogan
12-04-2005, 08:21
Thanks kashlie and Fortescue for your more detailed info on Fawkes - I should re-read the books again (if only I had time!). :)
Interesting about Fawkes still having some sort of connection with the wands. Would that mean he could tell or would react in some way when they were fighting each other? Like he would somehow feel conflicted or someone observing him would notice something going on? So in that way maybe Dumbledore could use Fawkes as a gauge of if Voldemort and Harry are battling . . . interesting thought.
Well, the Phoenix music did start playing when Harry and Voldemort duelled in the cemetary. I always assumed it was the wands that caused it, but maybe Fawkes was actually there? I don't remember if he was seen or not...
Fortescue
13-04-2005, 17:43
Well, the Phoenix music did start playing when Harry and Voldemort duelled in the cemetary. I always assumed it was the wands that caused it, but maybe Fawkes was actually there? I don't remember if he was seen or not...
No, I don't think Fawkes was there. The phoenix song came from what happened when the spells cast by the wands met and merged. The like cores of the wands containing Fawkes tail feathers made the phoenix song occur, which gave Harry the strength to go on when he heard it.
The fact that Mr. Ollivander only ever made two wands with phoenix tail feathers seems quite odd, considering how many wands he has on inventory. It does seem that maybe it was Dumbledore's idea for the wands to be made. Maybe he gave Mr. Ollivander one of Fawkes feathers, then when he found out that Tom Riddle had that wand, Dumbledore gave another feather, "just one other." :)
Fortescue
15-04-2005, 01:02
No, I don't think Fawkes was there. The phoenix song came from what happened when the spells cast by the wands met and merged. The like cores of the wands containing Fawkes tail feathers made the phoenix song occur, which gave Harry the strength to go on when he heard it.
The fact that Mr. Ollivander only ever made two wands with phoenix tail feathers seems quite odd, considering how many wands he has on inventory. It does seem that maybe it was Dumbledore's idea for the wands to be made. Maybe he gave Mr. Ollivander one of Fawkes feathers, then when he found out that Tom Riddle had that wand, Dumbledore gave another feather, "just one other." :)
EDIT: I was on the Scholastic website playing the Wizards Challenge and a couple of the questions made me think of this thread. There might also be a slight difference in their wands because of the wood they're made of. Harry's wand is holly and Voldemort's is yew. JKR researched different types of wood and their properties. The cores of the wands are the same but that's all. It could be the wood makes a difference in the magical power in combination with the core.
Fortescue
15-04-2005, 01:06
As an edit to my last post - I was on the Scholastic website playing the Wizards Challenge and a couple of the questions made me think of this thread. There might also be a slight difference in their wands because of the wood they're made of. Harry's wand is holly and Voldemort's is yew. JKR said she researched different types of wood and their properties. The cores of the wands are the same but that's all. It could be the wood makes a difference in the magical power in combination with the core.
:eek: Oh My God ---
I was reading this thread with my own thoughts on the wand choosing the wizard (umm I have to say I'm not sure about that) but anyway, a thought hit me:
-- Dumbledore knew of the Priori Incantatum effect when 2 "brother" wands are forced to do battle.
-- Olivander remembers every wand he ever sold.
-- Olivander notified Dumbledore that Harry bought the 2nd wand with Fawkes tail feather.
-- And my own thoughts of the wand not necessarily choosing the wizard.
What if Dumbledore had told Olivander to give Harry that wand almost as an insurance policy in case Voldemort was able to attack Harry before Harry was able to defend himself properly in a duel? The Priori Incantatum effect would protect Harry somewhat if Dumbledore couldn't.
I do agree that the two feathers weren't taken at the same time.
I think Dumbledore found out from Olivander which wand was sold to Tom Riddle and then gave the 2nd feather to Olivander after Voldemort came to power, possibly the night of the attack on the Potters. After Harry lived and Voldemort disappeared --- Thought dead by many, but not by Hagrid or Dumbledore.
It would be interesting if Dumbledore gave the second feather after Harry survived, with the intent that Harry would receive that wand in the future. But, I have to also think about how well the wand worked for Harry in Ollivander's shop . . . the other ones didn't at all.
Now, to completely contradict that, we have never actually seen what another student's wand-choosing process looks like to see what the "correct" wand's actions are. So, Ollivander could have given Harry a few wands that he knew would be the worst match for Harry and would create chaos. Then, he sneaks in the phoenix feather one, which he knows won't be *as* bad, but still might not be the right one. Who is Harry to know? So, since it was the one that worked the best, he takes it.
I don't personally agree with that theory, but thought I would throw it out there to see what you guys do with it!
I was just curious if Olivander could have swayed Harry into buying the wand with Fawkes feather. I guess I'm reiterating your thoughts above.
The reasoon for this is something that has been bugging me for a while. When Harry first goes into the wand shop, Olivander remarks that he remembers when Lilly came in for her FIRST wand. How many wands did Lilly have?
Then I noticed the passage where Harry is being fitted for robes and meets Draco. Malfoy says his mother is at Olivander's getting him his wand.
I'm not quite sure how accurate the "wand choosing the wizard" statement is, except to encourage Harry that he is MEANT to have the wand with the Phoenix feather.
So I guess my questions are:
If the wand chooses the wizard, how can Narcissa buy Draco's wand for him and expect it to work well?
What happens if your wand is broken or destroyed? Are you outta luck and have to go through life with a substandard wand ?
Do the wands wear out over time? Requiring you to buy another one? Again Substandard to the one Meant for you?
Just a few thoughts......
Sir Cadogan
17-04-2005, 13:05
If the wand chooses the wizard, how can Narcissa buy Draco's wand for him and expect it to work well?
This is what I always shook my head about too ... I assume the only explanation is that all the Malfoys are so similar to each other that they have a sort of family recipe for the ideal wand.
I personally think that given the reaction of other wands in Harry's hands that there was nothing untowards on here - I just figure that the right wand would cause the right reaction as we saw.
With so many wands that could have been given to Harry - with the chances of Harry actually getting the specific wand that even Dumbledore might have a stretch with making that happen.
More likely in my mind is that the wand reacted to the presence of Voldemort in Harry.
Also thinking on - I dont think anyone could have a any real imput into it - otherwise why arm a young Riddle with a wand that has a Phoenix feather in there - and one we assume to have come from Fawkes - Dumbledore's loyal pet ;)
I personally think that given the reaction of other wands in Harry's hands that there was nothing untowards on here - I just figure that the right wand would cause the right reaction as we saw.
In the book, Olivander snatched the other wands out of Harry's hands before anything could happen. One was so quickly Harry barely raised it when Olivander took it away from him.
With so many wands that could have been given to Harry - with the chances of Harry actually getting the specific wand that even Dumbledore might have a stretch with making that happen.
I don't think it would be too much for a talented wand maker, who knew all the wands he had ever sold, to be able to make a wand that would work in the hands of the son of 2 of his customers.
More likely in my mind is that the wand reacted to the presence of Voldemort in Harry.
Also thinking on - I dont think anyone could have a any real imput into it - otherwise why arm a young Riddle with a wand that has a Phoenix feather in there - and one we assume to have come from Fawkes - Dumbledore's loyal pet ;)
umm not sure there was any reason to think twice of Tom Riddle as an 11 year old using the wand with Fawkes tail feather in it. There was nothing overtly evil about him until later in his life (ok maybe only a couple a years)
Just to respond to the whole Draco/Narcissa wand thing - I think we discussed that a few pages back. Basically, it didn't actually say she was buying his wand, just that she was looking. Perhaps she had a few in mind she wanted him to look at - certain woods/cores, etc. There might be some that are better for certain spells, so she just went in a asked Ollivander to bring a couple specimens out for Draco to try later on.
LOL Narcissa probably wanted to make sure Draco didn't get a wussy wand. I daresay they have a history of 'strong' wands in their family. Of course, if DD can have a wand made for Harry, who's to say the Malfoy's haven't had their sons made?
I have been thinking about when the Phoenix would have given these feathers. It seems unlikely that it gave them both at the same time, because that would mean Harry's wand sat in Ollivander's shop for, well a very long time (I have to assume they were made well before Riddle went to Hogwarts). I find it hard to believe that the wand would remain untouch for that long.
So then we assume Riddle's was made, and chose him, but had no great significance until it was used on Harry. Which makes it an old wand. Then DD had Fawkes give another feather, and had Ollivander make the brother wand specifically for Harry.
And Ollivander says they use 'unicorn hairs, phoenix tail feathers, and the heartstrings of dragons' which I take to mean more than one phoenix has given his feathers, but only one has given twice, and that, oddly, is the faithful friend of DD.
Just reading the paragraph where Ollivander tells Harry how he sold Voldemort his wand...it is interesting...
'I'm sorry to say I sold the wand that did it.' he said softly. 'Thirteen and a half inches. Yew. Powerful wand, very powerful, and in the wrong hands ... Well, if I'd known what that wand was going out into the world to do ...'
Is that a statement? Did Ollivander know he had put that wand in the wrong hands, but dismiss it because 'the wand chooses the wizard'?
And where he gave Harry the holly/phoenix tail feather wand, 'The pile of tried wands was mounting higher and higher on the spindly chair, but the more wands Mr Ollivander pulled from the shelves, the happier he seemed to become.'
I guess he may have been hoping that Harry wasn't a match for this wand. How do we know, on a limb here, that Neville hadn't tried that very wand, only to use instead his fathers wand (OMG!! brain fart...Neville broke his wand in OotP which means he'll get a new one which means he will actually be able to perform proper magic, because 'you will never get such good results with another wizards wand')
Anyway, Ollivander was happy in a way that Harry was chosen by that particular wand. And because I doubt he knew of the prophecy, he didn't understand just how big a deal this would be. DD could have just asked Ollivander to make young Harry Potter a wand, and not explained why. This is why Ollivander thought it curious...and he may have begun to piece together just how great Harry was going to be.
umm not sure there was any reason to think twice of Tom Riddle as an 11 year old using the wand with Fawkes tail feather in it. There was nothing overtly evil about him until later in his life (ok maybe only a couple a years)
Tom would have grown up bitter and twisted because of his orphane life - JKR herself even said that Voldemort didnt know love - as such I dont think he was a pussycat until he was in Hogwarts - what made him what he is - the drive and desires were always present - as such why would Dumbledore allow the brother cored wand to go to someone with that inside them?
In fact why make 2 in the first place- lets face it - if this was a Dumbledore act - it backfired - literally :D
Fortescue
27-04-2005, 00:49
Tom would have grown up bitter and twisted because of his orphane life - JKR herself even said that Voldemort didnt know love - as such I dont think he was a pussycat until he was in Hogwarts - what made him what he is - the drive and desires were always present - as such why would Dumbledore allow the brother cored wand to go to someone with that inside them?
You're right, Blaise. Tom's growing up in the orphanage only fueled his deep resentment and made him learn to hate those who had the things he wanted - power, respect, and in his case he wanted to be feared, thus the whole He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named thing. He told Harry in the chamber that he was good at deceiving people by charming them. I can see that when he was younger and handsome, but I don't think charm would work for him now.
In fact why make 2 in the first place- lets face it - if this was a Dumbledore act - it backfired - literally :D
If the manufacture of two wands with identical cores with the intent that Voldemort would have one and Harry the other all the years previously was part of Dumbledore's plan, I think it was brilliant. It saved Harry's life - if it weren't for Priori Incantatam Voldemort would have killed Harry in the graveyard. I'm sure that there was a purpose for using Fawkes feather. Mr. Ollivander never said what the wands were good for, like charms or transfiguration --- only that they were powerful and there were only two of them.
Tom would have grown up bitter and twisted because of his orphane life - JKR herself even said that Voldemort didnt know love - as such I dont think he was a pussycat until he was in Hogwarts - what made him what he is - the drive and desires were always present - as such why would Dumbledore allow the brother cored wand to go to someone with that inside them?
In fact why make 2 in the first place- lets face it - if this was a Dumbledore act - it backfired - literally :D
You have a great point about Riddle.
But, how about if we look from a different perspective? Instead of Dumbledore having 2 wands made at the same time with Fawke's tail feathers as their cores, but one wand was created with that core --- sold to Tom Riddle. Then after the rise and fall of Voldemort, Dumbledore asked Olivander about the wand bought by Riddle? Or in an innocent conversation. Olivander mentions that Riddle had bought the wand with Fawkes' tail feather?
Knowing that 2 "brother" wands won't work properly against each other, Dumbledore has a 2nd wand made. And manipulates it so Harry buys that wand?
He does have at least 9 years of watching Harry to manipulate the qualities that will fit the wand to Harry.
It's just one more thing that can help Harry if he should go against Voldemort before he has the proper training and knowledge.
what do you guys think??
Fortescue
08-05-2005, 07:54
Knowing that 2 "brother" wands won't work properly against each other, Dumbledore has a 2nd wand made. And manipulates it so Harry buys that wand?
He does have at least 9 years of watching Harry to manipulate the qualities that will fit the wand to Harry.
I agree with Blaise's earlier comment that Dumbledore didn't plan that far in advance. The reason the wand reacted to Harry in such a way was due to his connection to Voldemort and also to Fawkes. As has been mentioned, Harry has a huge connection to Voldemort because of the backfired curse, but also to Fawkes for a reason we do not yet know - but there is definitely a very important connection between Harry and Fawkes, and I'm sure it will be one of the important details JKR will reveal before the end of the story.
I still feel that the wand chose Harry based on whatever Voldemort left in Harry that night.
I still wonder if he really was destine for that wand - or if that whole attack hadn't happened would Harry be using another?
Reason I say this is if Harry survives past killing Voldemort - will the wand still be as effective?
Taking back a step on this - it is plausible that Dumbledore could have planted a second phoenix core wand knowing whatever remained inside Harry from the curse that night would react to it - so in essence you could maintain the thought that Dumbledore was manipulating that aspect.
The point is - the brother wands seem equally matched and then as equally redundant when faced against each other - why would Dumbledore put in place a sequence of events that see's two strong magical people not being able to use the instrument which would serve best as a disposal route against the other?
The point is - the brother wands seem equally matched and then as equally redundant when faced against each other - why would Dumbledore put in place a sequence of events that see's two strong magical people not being able to use the instrument which would serve best as a disposal route against the other?
Perhaps more for Harry's protection than Voldemort's defeat?
Blaise do you mean to say that you think if/when Harry defeats Voldemort that any trace of Voldemort will disappear? It makes me feel that Voldemort will attempt the AK on Harry again, and it will backfire again, but this time he takes back what was his, therefore the original AK takes effect and kills him...
So Harry's wand is then useless to him? Imagine, after all he and his wand have been through together, to have to go buy another one!
Good thought, Blaise. Is it possible Harry's wand won't work as well if Voldemort is gone? Or will Harry always have part of Voldemort in him?
It is hard to imagine Harry having the same core as Voldemort based upon any other criteria . . . they don't seem to have the same make-up in terms of personalities and goals, so I think it's a good assumption that the wand chose Harry based on the traits of Tom/Voldemort that it felt.
I'd say, if Harry loses the parts of Voldemort from himself, then yeah, he would probably have to find another wand. If not, then I guess not . . . :D
Now, another question that comes to mind is why wands from Fawkes would feel that connection with Voldemort. Does it have something to do with Fawkes? Or is it just based upon the immortality thing?
The point is - the brother wands seem equally matched and then as equally redundant when faced against each other - why would Dumbledore put in place a sequence of events that see's two strong magical people not being able to use the instrument which would serve best as a disposal route against the other?
Perhaps more for Harry's protection than Voldemort's defeat?
Blaise do you mean to say that you think if/when Harry defeats Voldemort that any trace of Voldemort will disappear? It makes me feel that Voldemort will attempt the AK on Harry again, and it will backfire again, but this time he takes back what was his, therefore the original AK takes effect and kills him...
So Harry's wand is then useless to him? Imagine, after all he and his wand have been through together, to have to go buy another one!
I think it is very possible once Voldemort has been erradicated that the connection Harry shared with his will be removed as well.
This could result in a Harry that is in no way as powerful as what he was with the Voldemort 'touch' inside him - and could also mean that the wand that is tuned into the Voldemort essence inside him also stops responding.
As much as Harry shared blood with a Muggle and a Wizard it is possible that Harry is what he is because of what was left inside him post attack.
The connection between the brother core's could be playing the Gryffindor versus Slytherin edge just based on the fact Fawkes looks to be so - well Gryffindor in approach and Voldemort so Slytherin.
The balance comes from Harry that shares the power of the feathers versus the essence of Voldemort/Salazar.
This would be a little tidier in my mind that having Harry the Gry Heir and Voldemort the Sly heir.
Fortescue
12-05-2005, 02:06
I don't think the wands give either one the same advantage. The wands aren't identical - they simply share the same cores. Voldemort's wand is made of Yew, Harry's of Holly. I don't recall any reference in the book to Holly, but in the graveyard, it was noted that the trees there were Yew trees. Could be a reference to Voldemort's wand and him as the representative of death or evil?
Paraphrasing from JKR and the information she has listed on her website about the properties of the wood she assigned Harry and Voldemort:
The name Holly comes from the word "Holy" and repels evil, while Yew represents astonishing longevity and can symbolize both death and resurrection and the sap of the yew tree is poisonous. This sounds like it is meant for both wands to be different in their properties and characteristics. It would seem that the wood would affect the powers of the wands, and possibly even make a difference combined with the properties of the person using the wand.
I don't think that Harry will lose any of his connection with his wand just because Voldemort is gone. The connection Harry has might partly be something he got from Voldemort's attack, but I don't think that will go away just because Voldemort is gone. It didn't seem to affect Harry's powers when Voldemort was just a mist and had no powers at all - so I don't see how Voldemort's death could affect Harry's connection with his wand.
You miss my point hun ...
Harry was had this essence or even connection to Voldemort since his attack.
It has been used by many people to explain how Harry can do some of the things he can - in fact in the books Dumbledore has been known to tell Harry that it was because of the attack that he gained some of Voldemort's powers etc.
What I am suggesting is that the wand - the core - the main part of the wand was responding to whatever it was Voldemort left in Harry - not the physical manifestation of Voldemort from bodiless soul to re-incarnate whole.
What I was suggesting is that it is this that the wand responded to in Harry - and would explain how the wands might not work against each other - I wonder if they are equipped with an 'anti-suicidal' charm that stops a wizard hurting himself to the extreme - as such they cant effect each other while they share the same connection and wand.
Fortescue
13-05-2005, 01:26
You miss my point hun ...
Harry was had this essence or even connection to Voldemort since his attack.
It has been used by many people to explain how Harry can do some of the things he can - in fact in the books Dumbledore has been known to tell Harry that it was because of the attack that he gained some of Voldemort's powers etc.
What I am suggesting is that the wand - the core - the main part of the wand was responding to whatever it was Voldemort left in Harry - not the physical manifestation of Voldemort from bodiless soul to re-incarnate whole.
What I was suggesting is that it is this that the wand responded to in Harry - and would explain how the wands might not work against each other - I wonder if they are equipped with an 'anti-suicidal' charm that stops a wizard hurting himself to the extreme - as such they cant effect each other while they share the same connection and wand.
I wonder though - Harry is the prophesized one - I'm sure that Voldemort's transference of the ability to speak Parseltongue and read Voldemort's emotions and see through his eyes has nothing to do with the powers spoken of in the prophecy. Voldemort marked Harry as his equal, thus transferring some of his powers - but I think Harry's connection to his wand is more then just Voldemort's accidental transfer of powers. There is a direct connection between Harry and Fawkes - it's been shown many times - but there is no connection to Voldemort and Fawkes other then his wand core. The times that Harry has faced Voldemort and Fawkes has either been there or Harry has heard the phoenix song; none of these times has Voldemort gained extra stamina or courage from the essence of Fawkes like Harry has. I think Harry's connection to his wand core is solely that of his connection to Fawkes and the essence of goodness depicted by the whole Harry - Dumbledore - Fawkes triangle. Good vs evil - It's seems that Voldemort's only protection from Harry is the fact that they can't fight effectively with their wands, but I don't think we've yet seen the power referred to in the prophecy and I can't begin to guess what that might be, but I don't think it will have anything to do with Harry's wand, Fawkes or Dumbledore. I think it will be quite amazing and a surprise for sure :D
As for the wands not allowing the wizard to hurt himself, I have no idea. I guess that would be like having a gun you couldn't point at yourself :D
Great stuff here: the meaning of the wood of each of their wands is fascinating. The depth of detail that can be found in this series always amazes...
While reading this, I kept wondering about the wands and what they are able to "see" about their prospective owners. Can the inanimate wand see the future of the wizard (or is it just the talents of the wizard)? Is there a particular type/core that chooses "good" wizards, and a type/core that chooses "bad"? Is there a reason that such a "good" type/core as a phoenix feather would choose someone as "bad" as Voldy?
The mischoice of Harry's wand is an interesting thought. Reminds me of the sorting hat- and Harry convinced that object to choose differently- could his strong personality have overrulled the Voldemort in him in the eyes of the wands?
Lovegood54
01-11-2006, 16:43
We are aware that wand cores come from phoenix feathers, dragon heart strings and unicorn tail hairs - how about a tail hair from a Centaur? Possibly from Firenze???
ok i have my doubts that a wnad can be made from the tail hair of a centaur. lets take a quick look at the wand cores we have seen: pheonix tail feathers, dragon heartstrings, unicorn tail hairs, and veela hair (fleur's wand core). ok, now lets look at the creatures these cores come from: the pheonix is a magical creature which has the power to: be reborn from fire upon its death, carry great loads (fawkes easily lifted Harry, Ginny, Ron, and Lockhart), disappear and reappear in a burst of flames (Fantastic Beasts and Where to find them, CoS ch.17, OoTP ch.27), tears that heal wounds and cure poisons (that are in the wounds at least), and a song that strengthens the pure and weakens the impure. Unicorns are magical creatures who have magical properties: their blood will save you even if you are an inch from death, its horn and blood are used in some potions (like the one Voldemort used to resurrect himself), they also have golden hooves and some (if not all) unicorns have silver horns. Dragon are magical creatures that: can breath fire, skin that can only be affected by another dragons fire (meaning they are immune to fire), some dragon eggshells are used in potions (like the chinese fireball, Famous witches card: Quang Po). Veela are also magical creatures with the powers to: can create and throw fire balls, change from beatiful woman-like creatures to ugly bird-like creatures, they sing and dance in a way that ensnares males that hear them. ok, that said here is why i dont believe a centaurs tail hair can be used to make a wand: they dont have any real magic powers themselves! they are just like people, except that they have a horses hindquarters. in my mind, the magical creatures breakdown into 2 subcategories: the magical and the mundane. the magical subcategory contains any creature that has its own magical property, like the cretaures described above. the mundane subcategory includes any other magical creature that doesnt seem to be anythiing other than a creature that defies muggle grouping of animals, like the hippogryph (is it a mamal or bird cause only birds have feathers and only mamals have fur/hair, hippogryphs have both!), centaurs, and the abraxan horses that pulled the beaubatons carriage. there, thats all i have to say on that, not sure if anyone else brought that up.
ok, as far as harry's wand picking him because it sensed Voldemort in him, tell me this: do u really think there is that much of voldemort in harry that a wand would actually think harry is voldemort? i mean, the sorting hat call think harry was voldemort. i think that any of voldy's powers that are in harry are minimal. i think harry's wand chose him because he was destined for it. the fact that it is voldemort's brother is something it can't help (Just like harry has said himself in one of the books). would you think that it was of great importance if you found out that Lily and James Potter had brother/sister wands? i think its only interesting that Harry's wand is the brother wand of voldemort only because it makes dueling harder for these two.
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