View Full Version : Filch - friend or foe?
Tinkerbell
09-01-2005, 13:44
In PS/SS, Chapter 14, Norbert the Norwegian Ridgeback, Harry and Hermione are caught by Filch after sending Norbert off with Charlie Weasley. This eventually leads to their detention being carried out in the Forbidden Forest and Harry learning more about Voldemort. This has got me thinking as to whether Filch, as a Squib, feeling inferior to the students and perhaps also the teachers at the school, will eventually side with Voldemort who could tempt him by offering him powers he would not normally have dreamt of possessing?
I don't see Filch becoming much of a traitor - He may seem like a grumpy old hag to the students but I think it's just because he's jealous of them. Even with that I just can't see him turning on Dumbledore and the other staff members.
dancer2006
09-01-2005, 15:00
You know it wouldn't surprise me if Filch did side with Voldemort. Only if Voldemort offered him something in return though. I agree with rooster that right now Filch is just jealous but if he were offered the powers he had never had, the power that he was jealous and longing for, then he would become a DE. a really evil DE that liked to torcher "spoiled rotten" students...
As much as I don't think Filch will turn, I'll jump in with something that says completely the opposite - just for fun!! :D
What if Voldemort offers Filch a way to get magical powers? And Filch is the one who does magic late in life???
Filch would be a horror to change sides!
He knows the secret passages of Hogwarts almost as much as the twins!
He would make a great inside man for Voldemort as well ....
As much as JKR portrays him as this really evil little guy - I dont think he is traitor material ..
I think Dumbledore treats him with a kind of respect - and being a sqib surrounded by young kids that in a few years will be proper witches and wizards must be quite humbling for Filch ...
I like the idea of it - I think he would be a great catch for Voldemort - but not sure ...
DieandDecay
10-01-2005, 17:30
Although Filch appears to be traitor material, I don't think he is. I think he is just kinda like Snape...he seems evil and appears to be pro-dark side, but is still loyal to dumbledore.
Weasleyfanforever
10-01-2005, 17:47
I am not sure that he is really that loyal to Dumbleodre, I think that he stays at Hogwarts because Dumbledore is one of the few people who will hire a squib. He was said to have thought that Umbridge was the best thing that ever happened to Hogwarts, that doesn't sound like loyalty to me...
DieandDecay
10-01-2005, 17:50
Filch thinks Umbridge is the best thing that ever happened to the school simply because she doesn't let anyone get away with anything and filch love to see people get punished. It doesn't necessarily mean that hes loyal to her. That is my opinion anyways, but i could be wrong.
Hermione
11-01-2005, 09:49
I don't think Filch really has it in him to be evil. Irritable, cranky, and a pain in the ass, yes...but not evil. I think he wants the students of Higwarts to get a slap on the wrist, not killed.
However, I do think he might become a DE because of a longing for companionship. Think about it, Mrs. Norris is his cat and does he really have anyone else? As a squib he is an outcast to the magical world, if Voldemort made him feel as if he belonged, he might join him. Think of inner-city kids who join gangs because even though they are violent, it gives them a sense of home.
In PS/SS, Chapter 14, Norbert the Norwegian Ridgeback, Harry and Hermione are caught by Filch after sending Norbert off with Charlie Weasley. This eventually leads to their detention being carried out in the Forbidden Forest and Harry learning more about Voldemort. This has got me thinking as to whether Filch, as a Squib, feeling inferior to the students and perhaps also the teachers at the school, will eventually side with Voldemort who could tempt him by offering him powers he would not normally have dreamt of possessing?
Great minds must think alike Tink - I had a similar thread to start for my CbyC about Filch being good or evil. :D
The character of Filch.
Is Filch evil through and through or is he just a misunderstood Squib living in the magical world? Choosing to be next to magical people, the only world he knows but unable to perform magic himself he is tortured daily by the children he cleans up after as they perform magic effortlessly.
Whilst I think Filch is bad and perhaps evil I dont think he would join Voldemort as I think he is loyal to Hogwarts - apart from wanting to be near magic, I think he is there because he never got the chance to go as a child because he was a squib. I dont think he is loyal to Dumbledore though and OoTP showed that he doesn't really care who is in charge as long as he stays at Hogwarts.
DieandDecay
11-01-2005, 18:22
I don't think Filch really has it in him to be evil. Irritable, cranky, and a pain in the ass, yes...but not evil. I think he wants the students of Higwarts to get a slap on the wrist, not killed.
However, I do think he might become a DE because of a longing for companionship. Think about it, Mrs. Norris is his cat and does he really have anyone else? As a squib he is an outcast to the magical world, if Voldemort made him feel as if he belonged, he might join him. Think of inner-city kids who join gangs because even though they are violent, it gives them a sense of home.
This makes sense..like I mean...take a refular high school nowadays fer example...the "nerds" that dont have the guts to stand up for themselves...end up coming to school one day with a gun. Filch will allow himself to be bossed around by authority figures ie. umbridge and has no companionship...and becomes a DE to get back at the world that rejected him?
This is an interesting line of thought you guys are embarking on here. I am very torn about Filch at this very second. I am in the process of listening to Jim Dale's (fabulous) reading of OOP (yes, i've already read it), and last night i got to the point at which Filch was almost crying with glee because Umbridge was going to let him whip Fred and George.
At first blush, I thought he was just rotten. Then I had a think. Many people were convinced Snape was (or is) evil, but then Hermione's ever present voice reminds us that Dumbledore trusts him enough to let him stay. I think, no matter how little we know about Filch, Dumbledore has allowed him and his cat to stay for some reason.
I sort of have this perception of Filch as a child who feels he is not getting his way. I think that is one of the only reasons he helped Umbridge, because she finally let him run things as he saw fit. We never got his reaction on Dumbledore being temporarily sacked, so we simply don't know how he feels about him past his disciplinary methods.
I suppose I said all that to say this... I have no idea. But now I have something new to ponder.
atticus
DieandDecay
12-01-2005, 06:06
at one point in OotP, When Harry is commenting on how evil umbridge is, Sirius tells him "the world is not separeted by good people and death eaters" I think this works because Filch seems evil, but Dumbledore trusts him.
Hermione
12-01-2005, 09:26
Just because a person is horrible to other people doesn't mean he or she isn't gifted in other ways. I believe that is why a lot of people are at Hogwarts, Dumbledore understands we all have our strengths and weaknesses. Think of Malfoy or Neville. Malfoy is horrible to Harry and his group, but he is obviously smart enough to make it to the 5th year; Neville lacks confidence in his work, and is the dunce of the grade, but he is very loyal to Harry. Another example would be my cranky old dad. He is crabby and talks in terse tones (if at all) but he still gets up to go to work every day to earn a living in order to support his family. Is he evil for being cranky? No, it's a shortcomming, but not detrimental to his character.
Back to Filch though, I do think he gets taken advantage of by the students at Hogwarts. I can imagine he would be happy to flog someone who was making a mess and causing him more work. Most of us would.
I do think he is very embittered about being a squib, though. As it has been pointed out he sees magic all around him and it not able to preform it. I imagine him to be very self loathing, he takes all his negativity about not being able to preform magic and projects it inwards. Since he has been so self-hating for so long, he projects that hate out to the students because it is all he has left.
I don't think Filch is evil, I think he has a poor self-image, and acts upon that determental view.
I think the argument that Filch might get his ego stroked and find a place where he has more responsibilities among the DEs and Voldemort's circle is interesting, but I don't go for it. The reason being that Dumbledore has been so loyal to Filch and has given him a place to live for all these years - I don't think he would just turn his back on him in a second.
Another thing to think about here is Mrs. Norris's role. Is Mrs. Norris really a cat? Is she an animagus? Will she perhaps turn of her own accord to Voldemort's side? Just another line of thinking!
DieandDecay
12-01-2005, 10:58
yeah, i think there should be more suspicion surrounding mrs. norris, than filch. the same thing is with hermione's cat. there something about that one too.
Hm, I can see Filch going bad. I don't think he will, but I can see it happening. Filch wouldn't be able to be a normal Death Eater, though - for the simple reason that he can't do magic. However, Bla brings up a good point when he mentions that Filch knows almost all the secret passages around Hogwarts almost as good as the Weasley twins do - that could be pretty useful to Voldemort under the right circumstances.
Filch probably knows much more information about Hogwarts and Dumbledore than he lets on - And while Dumbledore has given him a lot in the past years, he may have been quick to forget this, especially because Dumbledore won't let him punish the students how he wants.
I bet Voldemort wouldn't object to him hanging Muggles in chains from the ceiling.
DieandDecay
13-01-2005, 03:51
hmm....this really does go both ways. on one hand, filch cant do magic and dumbledore must trust him and dumledore can tell when someone is untrustworthy. but on the other hand, filch's obssession with punishing ppl in irregular for dumbledore's "people" so who knows...
I think you made the right observation - Dumbledore has a respect and trust in Filch that no-one else seems to show - almost a compassion ...
I think this is what will keep Filch on the straight and narrow - because I dont think he ever gets that respect from anyone else ..
He is a bitter and twisted guy - but he is also a person Dumbledore trusts ...
Flip to DiE - you have to wonder why Dumbledore choose pieces of badness like Filch and Snape to trust - DiE fodder DiE :D
Hermione
13-01-2005, 14:32
I do think it would make an interesting bit if Mrs. Norris did turn out to be something more than a cat. Also, it could create conflict, what is Mrs. Norris is one on side and Filch on the other?
Just because a person is horrible to other people doesn't mean he or she isn't gifted in other ways. I believe that is why a lot of people are at Hogwarts, Dumbledore understands we all have our strengths and weaknesses. Think of Malfoy or Neville. Malfoy is horrible to Harry and his group, but he is obviously smart enough to make it to the 5th year; Neville lacks confidence in his work, and is the dunce of the grade, but he is very loyal to Harry. Another example would be my cranky old dad. He is crabby and talks in terse tones (if at all) but he still gets up to go to work every day to earn a living in order to support his family. Is he evil for being cranky? No, it's a shortcomming, but not detrimental to his character.
Back to Filch though, I do think he gets taken advantage of by the students at Hogwarts. I can imagine he would be happy to flog someone who was making a mess and causing him more work. Most of us would.
I do think he is very embittered about being a squib, though. As it has been pointed out he sees magic all around him and it not able to preform it. I imagine him to be very self loathing, he takes all his negativity about not being able to preform magic and projects it inwards. Since he has been so self-hating for so long, he projects that hate out to the students because it is all he has left.
I don't think Filch is evil, I think he has a poor self-image, and acts upon that determental view.
Well apart from your dear old dad ;) those examples you gave are students who are at the school because they can do magic. Hogwarts doesn't judge someone on if they are good or evil - we have Voldemort, formerly known as Tom Riddle as proof of that. But what person who wants to chain and whip two boys can be classed as misunderstood or cranky?
Agreed he is very bitter about being a squib and I am most surprised at his choice of job as the man clearly hates children especially magical ones. So why doesn't Filch get a job working in the Hogs Head or something? Could this be another person that Dumbledore doesn't want leaving Hogwarts?
As some of you mentioned, Filch knows Hogwarts inside out but then Tom Riddle searched the school high and low for the Chamber of Secrets so he probably knows a fair few of those passages himself. I dont think Filch would go over to Voldemort, although I do think Filch borders on evil, but Voldemort and the Death Eaters can't stand Muggle borns, they are not going to bother with a Squib either.
As some of you mentioned, Filch knows Hogwarts inside out but then Tom Riddle searched the school high and low for the Chamber of Secrets so he probably knows a fair few of those passages himself. I dont think Filch would go over to Voldemort, although I do think Filch borders on evil, but Voldemort and the Death Eaters can't stand Muggle borns, they are not going to bother with a Squib either.
I think that they would definitely "bother" with him if they thought he had information which could prove useful . . . to the point that perhaps it would turn into another Bertha Jorkins affair where they find sinister ways of getting the information they need, perhaps not with Filch's knowledge.
To the Mrs. Norris point - that would definitely be interesting if there were more to her and she ended up on a different side than Filch . . .
Also, you would think that the professors of Hogwarts will have to keep their eyes open for suspicious activity in the coming books. I can't imagine that students or teachers will be allowed to go to Hogsmeade - it would seem too easy for DEs or other baddies to just perform a curse on them like Imperius, send them back into Hogwarts, and have them wreak havoc . . . I don't know - just a thought!
You know as much a Filch floats dangerously close to evil - I dont think he is on the same level as the likes of Voldemort and Bellartix.
I think Filch is just filled with hatred and resentment that he was a squib - and that all these other children are attending Hogwarts - children in his eyes perhaps that dont deserve it too much - slackers and troublemakers - where as he couldnt go to Hogwarts as a student because he was a squib.
I think bitterness is no excuse but I think it explains him well enough ... although he does seem very loyal to Dumbledore and as such that might prevent him being swayed by other forces.
DieandDecay
28-03-2005, 05:08
all in all, I don't think the Filch will turn out be a death eater or anything. Mainly, because I think Dumbledore would know.
Snape WAS a death eater, but he changed sides, and dumbledore trusts him because he can see that Snape's change was genuine although other people dont seem to think so.
If Dumbledore trusts Filch, he must see something that no one else can see that makes him trust him.
You know that is a compelling point really - Dumbledore would know ...
But see on how you view Dumbledore to the relevance to that statement as well - Dumbledore does know how to turn a blind eye - ok enough DiE!
I think you are right - Dumbledore would know if Filch was being manipulated - but I would discount that he could pull a Pettigrew - betray everyone just so he can feel smart and superior - would be quite a hit for a squib ...
I think Filch is put in there as an antagonist, for sure, but I just don't think that he would knowingly give up information that would lead to a student death. I definitely think it is possible that he could do it without his knowledge, though. Someone gets him into a conversation and he just gives up information . . . could happen. So, he might come into play in that sense, but I don't think he will turn spy for Voldemort or just up and leave Hogwarts.
I think there is one way he would - if Voldemort could make him Magical.
Think about it - Filch really is hung up on being a squib - quik spell courses, general attitude etc - if Voldemort could find a way to make Filch magical - I think you have found a way to compromise him and his integrity - one to think about maybe because JKR really does like showing us that he doesnt like being a squib ;)
Kingsley
01-04-2005, 13:18
Another thing to consider is--his loyalty to Dumbledore--is it just that of an employee or something more
I personally can see Filch leaving to join sides with Voldemort if he could get magical powers or save Mrs Norris :D
Haley's Comet
01-04-2005, 14:37
FILCH? Naaaaa!! He's a dodery old codger that misses the good old days when students were hung from the rafters by their thumbs! He already admitted that he misses the screams. Poor old devil.
You know it seems a rather brief summary of a character we have seen interacted with in so much of the books ;)
It is more than just being a miserable old git - he has a level to him that many would just dismiss as being an old miserable git - but look at the way he is with Mrs Norris - and then of course his relationship with Dumbledore etc ...
I suppose everyone has layers ;)
I agree that Filch is jealous of the students. I don't know whether anyone has pointed this out or not, but Filch is not particular with who he punishes. In other words, he doesn't favour purebloods over muggleborns or vice versa. Students are students and they all need to be kept under control, right?
It actually once occured to me that maybe Dumbledore is evil and doesn't want Voldemort to be around as a challenger, but don't worry, it was a fleeting thought!
I agree that Filch is jealous of the students. I don't know whether anyone has pointed this out or not, but Filch is not particular with who he punishes. In other words, he doesn't favour purebloods over muggleborns or vice versa. Students are students and they all need to be kept under control, right?
It actually once occured to me that maybe Dumbledore is evil and doesn't want Voldemort to be around as a challenger, but don't worry, it was a fleeting thought!
:eek: Thought never occured to anyone here you know :D
Take a look for DiE references for more details on that little thought you dismissed - have to say i am not so willing to personally ;)
It goes deeper yet again that just Filch being jelous - he is a squib in one of the most magical locations you can find - he see's all these 11 yo and older doing magic with ease - he see's them improving - getting better and then see's them pass through the other side - being all he wants to be but no matter how hard he tries will never be able to be like them.
That would make anyone bitter - but notice he doesnt have to be there - as such you have to give him some credit for sitting in a place where he is gonna feel like crap - surrounding himself in an place where everyone can do just for fun what he would kill for ...
And that is the point - he may be bitter and twisted - but gotta give him props for facing it and not hiding away ... his behaviour is all twisted but I actually think it gives him joy and satisfaction to be so close to magic ... ;)
but notice he doesnt have to be there
Are we sure Filch doesn't have to be there?
Well that is an assumption based on his character not displaying any kind of 'features' that might spell (excuse pun) a more inclusive part later down the line - or more to the point a reliance on him from Dumbledore.
You can question the likes of Sybil and Hagrid - but Filch just seems to be there cause Dumbledore thinks it is right ...
Unless you have a theory of course - would love to hear it :D
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