The Redemption of Snape

[Finnegan]

Snape is a character who is surrounded by much mystery. He obviously dislikes Harry, yet he occasionally goes out of his way to protect him. He used to be a Death Eater, but now he apparently works for the Order of the Phoenix. In spite of many accusations, Dumbledore vouched for Dumbledore during the trials after the first fall of Voldemort.

It seems a fair a assumption that Snape must have done something rather radical to be deserving of Dumbledore's trust. But what? And did he really turn against Voldemort, or is he simply a double-double agent? In short - what caused the redemption of Snape, did he deserve it, and can he be trusted?

[Kingsley]

i think snape is meant to be a complicated character, I am not even sure of his love of Slytherin being genuine anymore, is his slytherin house loyalty job related or not for instance

We know that he is spying on Lucius malfoy, wouldnt favoring Draco give him certain advantages, also i am under the impression that he does care, he helped the kids/order whenever he saw they were in danger (book 1,3 and 5) or thought they were

As far as Dumbledore trusting Snape, we know that Dumbledore is written to be a good judge of character, he seems to defend Snape the 3rd most of anyone in the book, with harry first of course

But the main question I think is, what did Snape do to feel the urge to help out the Order, and feel he needs redemtion--has to be something terrible :confused:

My 2nd thing would be what did he do as an ex death eater to get Dumbledore's trust

[PrettyMS.Potter]

Well, I agree Snape must have done something really bad to try to redem himself.I think he must of helped Voldemort and wanted to kill James Potter for teasing him and know feels bad for Harry. . If Snape is a spy and is spying on Voldemort for Dumdledore and on Malfoy then how can Snape be considered one of the missing death eaters? becasue I know Voldermort does not know Snape is a spy, obivously. Snape is mysterious and I think we need to study him more to see which side is he really on. Good or Evil?

[Alz]

Snape, where to begin!
OK, lets look as far back as his childhood ...
We got a glimpse into the child mind of Snape by virtue of Harry in OoTP and we see a small child cowering in a corner, this in itself tells a thousand words when we look deeper in this character ...
We move into school and we see a Snape that seems to be bullied, couple that with the past flash back you can see the makings of early Snape and his obvious longing to be someone with power ...
There can be no denying he was bullied, he may not have helped his corner when people like Lily try to take 'pity' on him and appease situations but it all resulted in a teenager that emerged with a need to feel he could get the upper hand ...
For someone like Voldemort looking to recruit people into his 'team' Snape represented an easy catch, the hook to get him on board was easy, 'I can offer you power' ... power and upper hand is what Snape seemed to lack during his maturity ...
So we move on, with all the past hang up's and an obvious target to level this all at, what lengths did Snape go to in order to feel appeased?
Did Snape have a part in James being killed, of course he did!
Did he have a part in Lily being killed, by association with James yes!
Did he have any part in the survival of Harry, maybe ...
We know that Dumbledore trusts Snape, we know that Dumbledore spoke for Snape, we know that Snape was a Death Eater and even now still refers to Voldemort as the Dark Lord ... a name reserved for the Death Eaters circle ...
In fact we know that Snape can still inflitrate the Death Eater movement ... best I stop now and let a few of you critique this ...

[Weasleyfanforever]

I think that Snape was at the Potter's house that night to save Harry. But we do know that Snape had already switched sides, as Dumbledore says in GoF: "Severus Snape was indeed a DE. However, he rejoined our side before the downfall of Lord Voldemort, and turned spy for us at great personal risk. If that is the case then why didn't he know what was going to happen to the Potters, and if he did, then why didn't he tell Dumbledore? Perhaps he did and we haven't found out about it yet... Also, he should have known who was passing info to Voldemort, why didn't he tell the Order who it was?

[Kingsley]

Ok this is good also--if Snape was already a spy by the time the Potters massacre came about--he would have felt helpless at the house if he were there--but I am sure someone has a theory of Snape stashing "V" 's wand which is because Snape was there and a guilty Snape would be responsible switching the trophy/portkey back to Hogwarts in book 4

[Alz]

In order to win Dumbledore over, Snape would have had to pull something that left Dumbledore in no doubt that he was to be trusted ...
I feel like Dumbledore could have picked anyone to be a spy if it meant saving their worthless asses from Azkaban but he didnt just 'tap up' anyone, he specifically spoke out for Snape ...
This assumes in my mind that Snape did something worthy of saving, something Dumbledore could not overlook ... assumption alert once again but could he have influenced the events of the fateful night?

[SeleneBlack]

Did Snape have a part in James being killed, of course he did!
With all the talk of the importance of a life debt, how can the debt Snape owed James be so easily forgotten? James saved Snape's life, as we know when one wizard saves another it creates a bond between them; an impenetrable bond. In my opinion, Snape had no choice but to pay it back, he couldn't have willingly been a part of James' death. He may have never paid the debt either. At the end of SS/PS Dumbledore tells Harry that Snape tried to protect him because he owed it to James. That implies that either Snape never got to pay it back or he did and Dumbledore doesn't know about it.

I bring up the debt because it is part of the deepest magic which Dumbledore continually puts his faith in. We've seen references to the old magic (life debts, the protection spell over Harry) and each time Dumbledore puts complete faith in these methods. Is it possible that some deep magic binds Snape to Dumbledore in a way which Dumbledore trusts the magic more than the man?

[catchthesnitch]

I'm probably combining threads here, but maybe if Dumbledore trusts Snape so much, could that be support for the "Dumbledore is evil" theory, and Snape was never actually redeemed?

As for the Snape/James debt, I don't think Snape sees it that way. In fact, I think he blames James for his being in the dangerous situation with Lupin in the first place, even though it was Sirius who actually played the joke. The way Snape saw it, James = Sirius for all intents and purposes, they were so attached at the hip they were practically one and the same. I mean, James taunted Snape in front of Lily, per Snape, because Sirius was bored.

Also, according to Snape, James chickened out at the last minute, and that's why James pulled him out, not out of any sense of honor or heroism.

[Tinkerbell]

It seems a fair a assumption that Snape must have done something rather radical to be deserving of Dumbledore's trust. But what? And did he really turn against Voldemort, or is he simply a double-double agent? In short - what caused the redemption of Snape, did he deserve it, and can he be trusted?

As Dumbledore has known Snape for a very long time (am I right in thinking that Dumbledore taught at Hogwarts at the time the Marauders and Snape were students there?) I imagine he knows something more of Snape's background than we do at present (thinking along the lines of the images described both from when Harry was in Pensieve, and also his Occlumency lessons). Perhaps there is something here that has proved to Dumbledore that Snape can be trusted, and this has been strengthened by Snape being a double agent?

I can't help but think that Snape was involved in the mystery that surrounds the night that Lily and James were murdered - did Snape in some way assist in getting Harry out of Godric's Hollow?

[Kingsley]

I think if Snape was there that night that it wasnt to help Harry--I always thought Hagrid got Harry out of the house--but if Snape was there it was to help Voldemort

[Weasleyfanforever]

There is a thread here about the Dark Mark, and it got me thinking. Snape was teaching at Hogwarts at the time that James and Lily were murdered, and when Voldemort disappeared. If the Dark Mark did disappeared when this happened, could it have been that Snape made sure Dumbledore knew as soon as it happened, therefore allowing Hagrid to arrive before anyone else (like other DE's) to save Harry? Dumbledore would trust Snape after that, he, although assumingly unknowingly, alerted Dumbledore that part of the prophecy had been fulfilledm and about what happened at Godric's Hollow and allowed Harry to be removed from the house very soon after the incident happened.... I don't know, it seems to easy, but it's just an idea....

[Alz]

I suppose it depends on the effect of the Dark Mark and how quickly it started to fade?
I would assume that is faded quite quickly - and as such you might be right!
If the mark started to fade - or even twinge just after Voldemort was ripped from his body - that might have been just the tiniest indication things went bad!
So yah - liking that as well - although still prefer he was someone around closer at the time :D

[Nagini]

Snape is a character who is surrounded by much mystery. He obviously dislikes Harry, yet he occasionally goes out of his way to protect him. He used to be a Death Eater, but now he apparently works for the Order of the Phoenix. In spite of many accusations, Dumbledore vouched for Dumbledore during the trials after the first fall of Voldemort.

It seems a fair a assumption that Snape must have done something rather radical to be deserving of Dumbledore's trust. But what? And did he really turn against Voldemort, or is he simply a double-double agent? In short - what caused the redemption of Snape, did he deserve it, and can he be trusted?

So much of what we dont know about Snape can be answered I feel, by knowing what he did or where he went the night Dumbledore said to him, that he knew what he must ask him to do, if he was ready and prepared - when Voldemort had risen again. Did this mean that Snape went back to Voldemort? He has the Death Eater mark on his arm so that must mean he was within Voldemorts inner circle and was marked by him. Snape said as much in GoF. Would Voldemort be willing to welcome him back when he didn't apparate instantly at his side?

As for what Snape did to gain Dumbledore's trust, I think he went to Dumbledore to warn him about the immienent attack on the Potters. Snape started work for Dumbledore the same year as Harry's parents died I dont think its a coincidence.

[Weasleyfanforever]

Did this mean that Snape went back to Voldemort? He has the Death Eater mark on his arm so that must mean he was within Voldemorts inner circle and was marked by him. Snape said as much in GoF. Would Voldemort be willing to welcome him back when he didn't apparate instantly at his side?

I think he was there in the Circle that night, and I think that Dumbledore knew he did, but didn't want anyone in the room to know that he had. If the Dark Mark disappeared as soon as Voldemort fell, it would have reappeared as soon as he was reborn. So, Snape could have seen or felt it automatically, went to Dumbledore and warned him, and left.

I also think it is obvious that Snape is still in with Voldemort, or he would be dead already. Voldemort wouldn't have let him return, knowing he was a spy, and from what Snape says, that is what he is doing. Also, Voldemort never said that any of the three that he mentioned were a spy, and I think that if any of them were, he would have mentioned it, to enrage the DE's....

[Alz]

I think he was there in the Circle that night, and I think that Dumbledore knew he did, but didn't want anyone in the room to know that he had. If the Dark Mark disappeared as soon as Voldemort fell, it would have reappeared as soon as he was reborn. So, Snape could have seen or felt it automatically, went to Dumbledore and warned him, and left.

I also think it is obvious that Snape is still in with Voldemort, or he would be dead already. Voldemort wouldn't have let him return, knowing he was a spy, and from what Snape says, that is what he is doing. Also, Voldemort never said that any of the three that he mentioned were a spy, and I think that if any of them were, he would have mentioned it, to enrage the DE's....
Have to totally agree - he cant do what he does if he cant pass between both worlds without fear of his life ...

Most telling is JKR said that Snape told Dumbledore his side of the story and Dumbledore believes him ... now if that isn't open for interpretation then I don't know what is ... but whatever he told Dumbledore must be pretty damn strong for Dumbledore to risk it all in speaking for him ... could it be fear or could it be what Snape knows, could it be Dumbledore doesn't want Snape shouting his mouth off?
Bribery and corruption at Dumbledore's level isn't impossible ;)

[Haley's Comet]

Severus Snape! The proverbial man of mystery!
We're never quite sure which side he is on. He
walks the fine line between good and evil. It is
this characteristic that endears us to Snape, and
yet can repel. He is one of my favorite characters
because I haven't figured him out. In P.O.A. I was
suprised to see Snape turn and stand his ground
to face the werewolf while Harry, Ron and Hermione
stood behind him. I think that somewhere under that
coal black robe, and those dark eyes, there is a heart.
Ultimately, I'd like to see a showdown between
Severus Snape and Lucius Malfoy, while Harry battles
voldemort. What a finish it could be.

[Alz]

You know Snape standing in front of the trio could be a cover - it could be he was protecting one more than others ... ;)
... but I'm sure in the book we dont actually get told Snape protects Harry and the others - I think this was a film only thing - I think Snape implies to Dumbledore that he helped them all out - when in reality he was being magically moved along after Harry knocked him out - I think he awoke and then claimed to be a hero - what you refer to is pure WB license ;)
But lets say film world - why would Snape try and protect the person who just knocked him out?
I mean we know he has a pride - so if he allowed that and still wanted to protect the Potter boy we are all told he dispises - i mean does that make any kind of sense?
I think he is just trying to protect Harry full stop :)

[Boing]

Good point. I had forgotten about that. In the book he simply claims to have done something more heroic than he possibly had. But, I agree with your take on it that he was really trying to protect Harry at all costs. And, as I always say about the movie stuff, if JKR didn't have a problem with it, then it probably doesn't matter that they portrayed it that way!

[Alz]

I think if anything the films can help JKR because people become distorted to the real facts - because well the films arent a 100% representation of the books.
I think this was a huge difference - from Book and Snape being a worm - to film and him looking like a hero ... I would have thought JKR might have had an issue - but as you said Boingy the fact she didnt could mean it isnt too relevant overall ...

[kashlie]

Back to Snape stashing the wand...if he did stash V's wand, then he had to also return it. I think Wormtail may have been there that night and took the wand. Maybe.
I am also wondering, if not Snape, then who is the DE that Voldemort believes has left his service for ever and who will be killed?
Unless Voldemort knows Snape is a spy, and is biding his time to do something about it...
It seems Snape has redeemed himself to Dumbledore. I think Snape has, throughout the books, been protecting Harry, not because he really wants to, but because he knows of the prophecy in some form, knowing that Harry must live.
I have to say, the thoughts buzzing around my head about this is confusing me!!

If Snape is a spy, and V doesn't know, then Snape is indirectly protecting Harry with his bullying ways. He cannot be seen as a traitor that way. BUT Voldemort should know that Snape is protecting Harry, because in book 1, Quirell tells Harry that Snape was trying to save him. Unless Voldemort forgot that happened, then he should know...