sunshine, diasies, butter mellow....

[Hermione]

In Book 1, on the train to Hogwarts, Ron tries to cast a spell on Scabbers to turn him a bit lighter. It is on p. 105 of the paperback Scholastic version. It says:

" Sunshine, daises, butter mellow,
"Turn this stupid, fat rat yellow."

But it doesn't work. Ron says he thinks it doesn't work because George gave it to him and knew it was a dud. Do you think it doesn't work because Scabbers is not a rat, because the spell isn't a real one, or because of some other reason.

[George]

Meredith,
That's a good point I think you have made, but, besides the fact that we learn Scabbers is not a rat, the spell incantation is much too long for a "proper" spell. Remember that we rarely see "long" spells, but the words are only made up of several syllables, whereas the one Ron tries is 16 syllables... it would take an eternity to do. Were it not a "dud", then it may not have worked since Scabbers was Pettigrew, and not just a simple rat. I dunno, that's just how I see it...

[Sir Cadogan]

I'm 111 per cent sure that it doesn't work because it is not a real spell.

1. Ron's brothers (the twins) are fond of playing tricks on him.
2. They know that underage wizards should not do magic (which doesn't apply to themselves, of course).
3. We've read of numerous spells in the meantime ("alohomora", "accio", "expecto patronum") - and *none* that I remember consists of a silly rhyme such as the one that Ron has been taught by his brothers.

Oh dear. *Sigh* It has alway struck me as extremely naive of Ron to try and show off with magic which he obviously hasn't tried out ... and which is rather stupid anyway. But then - he's only an eleven-year-old wizard, in the company of two strangers who live with muggle families ...

[Sir Cadogan]

... Were it not a "dud", then it may not have worked since Scabbers was Pettigrew, and not just a simple rat.

Another reason why I think it doesn't have anything to do with Scabbers being an animagus: At the moment he *is* a rat, not a wizard, so his "rat" outside would react to a proper spell, I think. Otherwise it would be an extremely easy way of detecting animaguses, don't you think? Just say "Something or other, turn this deer yellow", and if it doesn't, it's an animagus. Too simple, I think.

Which brings me to something else I've been thinking about: When Sirius and Remus force Pettigrew to show himself, they do not say a spell, they "only" throw flashes of blue light at him from their wands. Why does this work without words, when a Patronus Charm requires the formula? Very strange ...

[The SketchWolf]

I don't think it was a real spell, but even if it had been, I don't think it would have worked because

1) ''Scabbers'' is not a rat
2) Ron had no magical training up to that point

A ''real'' spell is usually only one/two word(s), as we have seen so far. For example:
-Alohomora
-Wingardium Leviosa

Also, they are words that are not known to the English language- at least not to Muggles.

Over all, Fred and George's ''spell'' was more of a chant, rather than a true spell. Ron, of course, would have no idea of what a real spell was like as he had not been to school yet.

[Sirius Potter Fan]

Which brings me to something else I've been thinking about: When Sirius and Remus force Pettigrew to show himself, they do not say a spell, they "only" throw flashes of blue light at him from their wands. Why does this work without words, when a Patronus Charm requires the formula? Very strange ...

I think experienced wizards may cast spells by only thinking of them. Dumbledore has done things not only without a spoken incantation, but also without a wand. I won't swear, but I do believe that there have been other occurances of this in the books, but not exactly shure where.

[kashlie]

Wizards have to eventually learn to control their wands by thoughts only, but then again, why wouldn't they do this all the time? It would be easier to attack someone if they didn't hear what was coming.

The spell was definately a fake. It was a very important fact that his brothers gave it to him. It built up the idea that they are pranksters.

I also don't recall coming across any other 'long' spells, unless they came with a potion.
What are the spells in transfiguration? I can't remember them or where in what book to find any.

[Hermione]

Have we seen any other times when spells have been used on an animagus when they are in an animal form? I can't think of any.

George brought up a very good point, when Wormtail is a rat, is he a rat or a wizard disguised as a rat? It's a fine line and a matter of point of veiw, but it makes a huge differance.

I do agree, the spell probably was a dude, something of Fred and George's invention to fool Ron. If it was real, wouldn't Ron get into trouble for using magic before he even got to Hogwarts?

[Sirius Potter Fan]

I do agree, the spell probably was a dude, something of Fred and George's invention to fool Ron. If it was real, wouldn't Ron get into trouble for using magic before he even got to Hogwarts?

We have seen other magic done on the train, so I believe the train being the "Hogwarts Express" is considered to be part of Hogwarts, and thus, magic is allowed there.

[The SketchWolf]

Some spells and such (I believe) can be done without words. Dumbledore seems to do this a lot, for example. Also, perhaps it does take more skill to produce an effective spell from a wand without words, but perhaps the spell Sirius and Remus cast was a simple one that took little power.

Of course, I don't quite believe that theory myself, as everything that has to do with being an animagus seems to be extremely complicated and requires a very skilled wizard/witch to handle those matters.

Maybe it was something that could be done between other animagus wizards/witches. Then again, Lupin was not a true animagus. So perhaps it was a ''wordless'' spell only someone who had animal traits (such as being an animagus or werewolf) could do.

Either way (or neither way), I do think something was going on there that should be looked in to. I always wondered about that.

And back to the question about Fred and George's spell being a dud, which do you think they'd be more likely to do?:

A) Teach their brother a real spell
or
B) Teach him a fake spell in order to play a joke on him

As for me, I'd say 'B'. They never seem to be in any rush to actually help Ron, but to trick him? That's another story we've seen playing throughout the book. I for one never questioned whether the ''spell'' was real or not- it was just too obvious of a trick.

Of course, it may have been a hint JKR was pointing at us (as she always does) saying, ''Hint, hint- this thing ain't a rat!'' Well, maybe not in those exact words, but you get the point.