View Full Version : The other prophecies
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0373889/board/thread/17309391
If this has already been discussed, I apologise, but I am still getting used to navigating around MP, and couldn't find anything about this.
There were snippets of other prophecies heard, when they were smashed by a deflected spell. The link above will take you to the fairly short discussion that brought this to my attention.
What we 'heard' is below.
'....at the solstice will come a new....'
'....and none will come after....'
Now, I agree that JKR would not have written this for us to see if it did not mean anything. But, I could be wrong. I have been influenced by what was said on that thread.
What are your thoughts?
Sirius Potter Fan
06-04-2005, 18:27
it could have just been obvious filler. I mean with all that fighting going on, it would have been impossible for quite a few not to smash, and well they would have had to say something woldn't they? possibilities there though, the solstice thing coordinating with Voldemorts known attacks...a bit intriguing :D
MoonMajik
07-04-2005, 12:00
unfortunatly I don't think Sirius is comming back. I mean he's dead, and the dead are just-well simply....dead they can't nessisarily come back or there would be no point in dying in the first place. Sadly Sirius has moved on - to that place Nick told Harry about. Although I guess I can't really say I mean Its Ms. Rowlings book and we have to play by her rules... :cool:
Hermione
07-04-2005, 12:54
It could be something or it could be nothing.
How are the prophacies arranged? In chronilogical order, alphabetical, order of importance...? It would help us in trying to figure out if there is any significance of a smashed prophacy.
well... I really don't know- I can't say I haven't thought about that before, but it just seems unlikely. But, there are many secrets to be solved, and I think that we will have to wait till after we've read Book 6, in order to make a reasoned judgement. After reading HBP, we will have a better idea of how things stand and how stuff may turn out... But, still, I stand by what I have said... it's probably nothing.
As far as I can recall the orbs are in alphabetical order- don't they go along the rows reading out names and someone points it out?....can remember for sure!!
As for the prophecies, I don't think they are significant as we don't know who they were meant for. They could be talking about a new baby coming at the solstice...jut as an example!
If the orbs are in alphabetical order, who is to say that the orbs that were smashed weren't other prophecies listed under 'P' for Potter? I know it is a long shot, but what if these were prophecies marking the death of the Potters? It could explain why Dumbledore reacted so quickly to get Harry out, and why he didn't step in to stop it. It could all be a part of the grander scheme...Also, think of the names of the students at school with Harry...Longbottom, Lovegood, Malfoy, Thomas, (not to mention Riddle, Slytherin), and place these on a shelf alphabetically. Of course, Ron did say none of them were there...
I really don't think they were mentioned for no reason. Afterall, the second lot of orbs smashed by the students themselves weren't mentioned, because they had nothing of value.
I am going to look into it further and see what else I can come up with.
I can't see the other prophecies having anything to do with Potter or the others- Ron says "I'm not here...none of the rest of us are here" when he finds Harry's orb and I would have thought they would have noticed the name of one of their friends or someone they know.
Also- the first name on that orb is 'Dark Lord' not Harry Potter, so if it was in alphabetical order they wouldn't have been for Harry- maybe for Voldemort but I am sure Ron would have noticed that.
Also, just flicking thru again, does it actually say that the orbs are in alphabetical order? I couldn't see it! I said in a previous post that they were but reading back, I don't think they are!
The second lot of orbs that were broken were shelves full of them smashing whilst running for their lives being chased by DE's...the first time there were only 2 of them and the 'group' were having a bit of a chat so it wasn't as noisy.
I think the others ones we saw were to show that prophecy storage and indeed capturing is quite normal in the Wizarding world and that there are many others vaulted away here.
I would be suprised if they were relevant to the Potters - afterall JKR never did it justice outside of quoting those lines.
Usually JKR will at least say something twice if she is being sneaky - in this case I think it was just adding to the scene.
Just imagine - hundreds of prophecies, all waiting to be claimed, in the Ministry of Magic's Department of Mysteries.
Why? Why ALL of them? What is so important about all the other prophecies that mean they have to be locked up like that? Surely some of them have happened and disposed of? Surely none are as important as the fall of the Dark Lord?
It makes me think that something is coming. There hasn't been a true seer in how long (or was that just at Hogwarts?)?
How many prophecies were stored there, really? How many were real? Are all of them deemed that precious?
Sirius Potter Fan
27-04-2005, 06:38
I think they are keeping the prophisies trying to determine just how they come about. They are probably catagorizing, organizing, crossreferencing them. listing them by time of day, person, location, phase of the moon, what ever, just trying to find out how the real ones happen. That is why they have them all, and are keeping them in the DoM.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0373889/board/thread/17309391
If this has already been discussed, I apologise, but I am still getting used to navigating around MP, and couldn't find anything about this.
There were snippets of other prophecies heard, when they were smashed by a deflected spell. The link above will take you to the fairly short discussion that brought this to my attention.
What we 'heard' is below.
'....at the solstice will come a new....'
'....and none will come after....'
Now, I agree that JKR would not have written this for us to see if it did not mean anything. But, I could be wrong. I have been influenced by what was said on that thread.
What are your thoughts?
I wanted to raise this one over again because of something recently been talked about - that Voldemort and the Dark Lord might be connected but not also seperate entities ... those 2 quotes could become a little more interesting no??
'....at the solstice will come a new....'
'....and none will come after....'
There are 2 rooms of prophecys I think it says, perhaps one is for the ones they deam important and then the other is for ones that they deam unimportant or fullfilled? Also some of the orbs were really bright and others were dark like burnt out light bulbs so maybe when one is fulfilled or the person dies the orb goes black..but why keep them if they are blacked out? Can they still be used if someone claimes them? Also one has to ask ones self why did the prophecy say the dark lord and (?) Harry Potter? They didnt know who it was about when it was made did they? It could have been anyone or atleast HP or NL right? so why put harrys name on it if it wasnt put up there until after LV lost his powers and chose harry.
'....at the solstice will come a new....'
'....and none will come after....'
Dec 22/ 2006 was the winter solstice (or approximately!). So the prophecy in the Hall of Records I believe was foretelling the announcement of the last book.
'....at the solstice will come a new....'
(Deathly Hallows title released on Dec 21/06)
'....and none will come after....'
(This will be the last book)
Glumbumble
15-02-2007, 02:45
I know that JKR has had the series planned for some time but in this detail?
My guess is that once she knew the release date of DH she used a time turner to go back and alter OotP!:D
Dumbledore asks whether most of the prophecies contained in the hall of prophecy come true? The answer is no but the the best way of making them come true is to let one or more of the those about whom the prophecy is made about know the content, or part of the content, of the prophecy. The idea of a self fulfilling prophecy so loved in literature and social science.
If Macbeth had not heard the prophecy of the three witches would he have murdered to become King of Scotland, if Oedipus had not been separated from his real parents and raised by surrogates would he have ended up killing his father and marrying his mother, if Anakin had not dreamed that Padme would die in child birth would he have turned to the dark side and ultimately brought about her death?
In his book Social Theory and Social Structure, Robert Merton gives the following definition of a self fulfilling prophecy:
"The self-fulfilling prophecy is, in the beginning, a false definition of the situation evoking a new behaviour which makes the original false conception come true."
For the purpose of our debate it is the behaviour of the two principals, Harry and Voldemort, that determine whether the prophecy becomes true. Once Voldemort came to believe that part of the prophecy that Snape relayed to him the process of ensuring that the prophecy would come to fruition was set. Voldemort's attack on Harry was as predictable as James and Lily's defence of Harry, and as predictable as Harry's hatred of Voldemort.
It is almost like seeing a Grim;
"Hermione, if Harry's seen a Grim, that's -- that's bad," he said. "My -- my uncle Bilius saw one and -- and he died twenty-four hours later!"
"Coincidence," said Hermione airily, pouring herself some pumpkin juice.
"You don't know what you're talking about!" said Ron, starting to get angry. "Grims scare the living daylights out of most wizards!"
"There you are, then," said Hermione in a superior tone. "They see the Grim and die of fright. The Grim's not an omen, it's the cause of death!
And Harry's still with us because he's not stupid enough to see one and think, right, well, I'd better kick the bucket then!"
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