Left Page Border
Makes the header linkable

Go Back   The Final Horcrux > Future Book Speculation > Discussions on general Septology

Discussions on general Septology "The One with the Power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches ... "

Poll: When did Dumbledore first suspect that Riddle/Voldemort had made a Horcrux?
Poll Options
When did Dumbledore first suspect that Riddle/Voldemort had made a Horcrux?

Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-03-2007, 16:07   #11
TFH Graduate
gbogbo's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: The Land of Enchantment
Posts: 93
Rep Power: 14gbogbo is on a distinguished road

Re: Dumbledore's Horcrux suspicions

I've been wondering about Dumbledore and his skills as a legilimens, especially in light of this passage. It is from the memory(?) that the diary shares with Harry. In the scene, Harry has been transported to Professor Dippets office. As they leave, and head off to when Riddle shows Harry the young Hagrid, they run into Professor Dumbledore:

Down the moving spiral staircase they went, emerging next to the gargoyle in the darkening corridor. Riddle stopped, and so did Harry watching him. Harry could tell that Riddle was doing some serious thinking. He was biting his lip, his forehead furrowed.
Then, as though he had suddenly reached a decision, he hurried off, Harry gliding noiselessly behind him. They didn't see another person until they reached the entrance hall, when a tall wizard with long, sweeping auburn har and a beard called to Riddle from the marble staircase.
"What are you doing, wandering around this late Tom?"
Harry gaped at the wizard. He was none other than a fifty-year-younger Dumbledore.
"I had to see the headmaster, sir," said Riddle.
"Well, hurry off to bed," said Dumbledore, giving Riddle exactly the kind of penetrating stare Harry knew so well. "Best not to roam the corridors these days. Not since..."
He sighed heavily, bade Riddle good night, and strode off. ...
(From COS, Chapter 13, The Very Secret Diary)
Did Dumbledore suspect something then? Why did he stop mid-sentence like he did, and then sigh heavily? Had he seen something in Riddle's mind?

And why was Riddle doing such serious thinking? Was that part of the original memory, or was that the Horcrux/Soul Fragment trying to decide if it was worth showing Harry something that Riddle/Voldemort knew was risky in that it might give something away?

I think this moment might be plausible for the time when Dumbledore first suspected. However, I don't think his suspicions were confirmed until the Lord Voldemort's Request scene.

Last edited by gbogbo; 08-03-2007 at 16:15..
gbogbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2007, 18:25   #12
TFH Graduate
Join Date: Aug 2005
Age: 50
Posts: 389
Rep Power: 15Piper is on a distinguished road

Re: Dumbledore's Horcrux suspicions

I think the serious thinking at that moment was about how to go about framing Hagrid so that he could stay at the castle during the summer. I think Dumbledore may have just then realized that Riddle might be the heir to Slytherin, and thus responsoble for the strange things happening. Dumbledore always seemed to know that Hagrid hadn't deserved explusion.

I do not think Voldemort had made any Horcruxes at this point, he doesn't ask Slughorn until the fall, and his questions definately included a lot of hows, and he asked what spell. I think that he had only just learned of the existence of Horcruxes at this point, maybe just read the same book that Hermonie had read, and learned the word and was counting on having the castle to himself more or less for the summer, in hopes that he could find out the rest of the story. With the Chamber still opened. Being told no meant he had to close it didn't it? I am fuzzy on that detail.

He sure seemed to fully expect to be granted permission to stay over the summer, it was like it did not occur to him that he might not be able to charm Dippett into letting him stay. He had the wind knocked out of his sails.
Piper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2007, 23:53   #13
TFH Graduate
serophis's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Irvine, Kentucky
Posts: 49
Rep Power: 0serophis is on a distinguished road

Re: Dumbledore's Horcrux suspicions

I picked up Book Two and started skimming when I read this thread and then I thought...why not seal a Horcrux within the Chamber? Perhaps not the Diary as a moldy underground lair isn't exactly the best storage for a book of paper and cardboard...

But you must think, according to Book 2, Harry was probably the only Parseltongue at Hogwarts since Slytherin himself (save Voldemort of course)...if he put a Horcrux in there, it could be centuries before anyone with even the ability to open the Chamber would come to Hogwarts; and the chances that they would stop by a haunted bathroom and start talking to a snake scratched on a faucet? The Horcrux might manage to spend all eternity hidden.

So perhaps LV has put yet another horcrux within the Chamber...We know from his conversation with Slughorn that he not only knew how to create a single horcrux; but that he felt that creating more than one would be for the best. If there had been a report of another death in Hogwarts that could have fueled a new Horcrux, I would just about bet money that there is still more to be found from the Chamber of Secrets.
Harry, Listen to me. The words of Snape echoed in his mind. If you ever in your life trusted me, you must do so now. Dumbledore sacrificed his own life so that I could stand by your side in this very moment. Don't let his sacrifice be in vain!

-an exerpt from Deathly Hallows, a Work in Progress (My own fanfiction work)
serophis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2007, 09:46   #14
Dr Winterbourne
Time Turners
Dr Winterbourne's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Moscow
Age: 47
Posts: 188
Rep Power: 14Dr Winterbourne is on a distinguished road

Re: Dumbledore's Horcrux suspicions

Serophis, I think that each of Slytherin's heirs possessed a parseltongue - remember his relatives using it in HBP?
Dr Winterbourne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2007, 14:02   #15
Sirius Potter Fan
Night Patroll
Sirius Potter Fan's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tulsa, OK USA
Age: 54
Posts: 1,690
Rep Power: 16Sirius Potter Fan is on a distinguished road

Re: Dumbledore's Horcrux suspicions

Originally Posted by Dr Winterbourne
Serophis, I think that each of Slytherin's heirs possessed a parseltongue - remember his relatives using it in HBP?
That is quite true DW. Not sure if every single descendant would have spoken it, it was still considered rare, but the male Gaunts we saw could.

The thing is, we do know for certain that those heirs of Slytherin did not go to school at Hogwarts. My guess is that once Salazar left the school his decendants would not have gone there, but would have "schooled" themselves since Salazar did not aprove of the mudbloods in the school. Likely I think that Riddle was the first to go back, and only because he was unaware of his heritage, and the associated pure blood biases having been raised outside of the family. But even if Merope had returned to her family to raise her son, they both would have been shunned by the family.

Riddle learned of his family through research, and at some point discovered the chamber. It does seem a very likely place to leave a Horcrux, as even if every single Slytherin ancestor could speak parsletongue, Riddle was the last, so he felt he could be certain that no one else would be able to enter and find it.
Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
His memory will live on . . .

There is no place I know to compare with pure imagination; living there you'll be free, if you truly wish to be.
_Willy Wonka

Murphy's Law: "Whatever can go wrong, will."

Mad-eye Moody's Law: "Murphy was an optimist!"
Sirius Potter Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2007, 20:22   #16
Head Unspeakable
Alz's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast US, originally UK!!
Age: 45
Posts: 7,108
Rep Power: 10Alz is on a distinguished road

Re: Dumbledore's Horcrux suspicions

I have to go with the unusual effects of the rebounded spell - I think Dumbledore realized very early on that something wasn't right that night - in fact something was very wrong. He knew of Voldemorts fear of death - and he also knew the Prophecy - I believe this was confirmation point to Dumbledore and the reason he removed Harry from the magical world and hid him until such time as Harry could be given the ammunition and skills to combat the foe!
'It's all my fault, all my fault'
'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

Dumbledore - HBP Pg536

'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
Alz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-05-2007, 07:47   #17
Dr Winterbourne
Time Turners
Dr Winterbourne's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Moscow
Age: 47
Posts: 188
Rep Power: 14Dr Winterbourne is on a distinguished road

Re: Dumbledore's Horcrux suspicions

I think that Dumbledore knew before the meeting for the DADA job. Voldemort's appearance there was merely confirmation of something his intellegence (both meanings of that word - brain power and information gathering) had lead him to.

I believe he deduced that Voldemort had created more than one horcrux, thus he knew precisely to what V was alluding when he boasted that he had pushed the boundaries of magic further than anyone - and unlike his followers, would have understood V's other boast in the graveyard, that he had walked further along the road to immortality than anyone else.

By the time of Harry's attack, I don't think there was anything more for him to surmise. If he didn't believe the prophecy before, he did now, seeing the chosen one, marked the lightning bolt - a weapon of the Gods to strike at blasphemers who dare to take more than mortals are allowed to seize. All he was thinking was, like Merlin with the baby Arthur, get this boy to a safe haven, and let us prepare him for his destiny.

Dumbledore knew V was coming back. He knew he had created horcruxes - he just didn't know how many until Harry told him so.

I wonder when Slughorn modified his memory. I think it was after Slughorn felt sure of Voldemort's return. He was in hiding - and had been for some time. Thus, Slughorn believed the rumours before the Ministry and the wider community - of course, he had a better reason to believe in V's immortality. I don't get the impression that he was dwelling on it during the war's hiatus, when the Vapourmort was roaming the nether regions. I think that he was ignoring the little memory, which niggled occasionally in his mind, whenever vague news of V's return, or potential return, reached him.

But he believed it once the Dark Lord had returned, and sent out his servants to bring him this uncomfortable loose end, who knew too much about Voldemort's secret. I believe it was then that he modified his memory - and was thus willing to give it to Dumbledore. Perhaps he modified it as soon as Dumbledore asked for it.

How much did DD know before he got the memory? How deep does Legimancy go? We have only seen it from Harry's point of view - and we know that he has an unusually strong resistance to control and such, and so perhaps he notices the intrusion more than others. Is it possible to sift through an individuals memories, or do you need a pensieve for that?
Dr Winterbourne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-05-2007, 08:03   #18
Seeker615's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 291
Rep Power: 15Seeker615 is on a distinguished road

Re: Dumbledore's Horcrux suspicions

Snape told Harry that with Legimancy you only see flashes of images not actual conversations. When Snape was teaching Harry Occlumency he broke into Harrys thoughts and saw certain images. (Remember he asked questions about Aunt Marges dog and about the MOM.) Plus he said you need the eye contact and normally close proximity to the person to which you are trying to get the info from.

So in order to get the real deal you would need the actual memory and a pensieve.
"It is our choices that show us what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
Albus Dumbledore: Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets.
Seeker615 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-05-2007, 08:22   #19
Dr Winterbourne
Time Turners
Dr Winterbourne's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Moscow
Age: 47
Posts: 188
Rep Power: 14Dr Winterbourne is on a distinguished road

Re: Dumbledore's Horcrux suspicions

Thank you, Seeker. I was itching for that quote, but I'm in an internet cafe without book or chessmen.

Related to the line of Slughorn speculation, if Voldemort is hell bent on taking anyone who may have knowledge, like Dumbledore, of his horcruxes, I wonder if Olivandar or Fortescue are involved in some way. I had assumed V wanted Ollivandar out of the way because he wanted to understand what happened with his wand, and to make sure it didn't happen again; and that Fortescue had something to with the Goblins - (does anyone remember exactly when they mention a Fortescue in History of Magic?) - but perhaps they too have been taken due to Dumbledore's Horcrux suspicions, or because they hold pieces that may have lead DD, and can now lead Harry, to an Achilles' heel in Voldemort's immortality.

Sing the rage of Voldemort.
Dr Winterbourne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-05-2007, 14:54   #20
TFH Graduate
horcruxfinder's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: California
Age: 58
Posts: 77
Rep Power: 14horcruxfinder is on a distinguished road

Re: Dumbledore's Horcrux suspicions

Hey Dr. W. I thought perhaps olivander is missing because he had to fashion a new wand for LV - one that would work against Harry's wand and wouldn't cause the priori incantatum to happen again.

PS: I love that you are writing from an internet cafe - Checking this site is quite possibly the most important thing I do on the internet.
Don't Believe Everything You Think...
horcruxfinder is offline   Reply With Quote

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

  Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:56.
Style Designed by Epic Designz

Harry Potter & all associated names and images remain the property of J.K Rowling, Bloomsbury Publishers UK and AOL Time Warner.All other logos and trademarks in this site are property of their respective owner. The comments are property of their posters, all the rest 2005 by The Final Horcrux.
You are not permitted to hotlink/hyperlink any images from the site.
Please respect the intellectual rights of The Final Horcrux. You must contact the webmaster/administrator of The Final Horcrux if you wish to take any part of the site and contents for reproduction on another site, forum, or other web presence. Any site that plagiarises The Final Horcrux will be subject to a complaint being registered against them.

Right Page Border