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Old 26-03-2005, 12:35   #1
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Question Dobby - Questionable?

Ok - I got this from a visitor to the site who was inspired but the 'House Elfs as killers' thread - I really liked it so thought I would post it here for you all to pass comment on....

Thanks to Keith for his email submission!!

House Elves As Killers!

What an interesting thread. I have been working on a hunch I have had for a little while in regards to Dobby. I also found another website where another person there has already laid out similar thoughts to mine.
There was a question asked about Tom Riddle from Tonks, I think, of whom said that Harry was not his prime target. The muggleborn's were. But who was Lucius Malfoy's biggest enemy? The one person of whom could upset his plans once the chamber of secrets had been opened? Harry Potter. Lucius would rather not have Harry returning to Hogwarts that year to foil his plans. Now Lucius cannot go to Privet Drive himself in order to convince Harry that he shouldn't return to school, but his house elf, Dobby, can. The first time Harry ever see's Dobby is when he's jumping on his bed. Amoung Dobby's very first words were "Dobby has heard of you're greatness, sir." Now where could Dobby have heard of Harry Potter? We know very, very little about his background except that he serves the Malfoy family. So it's feasible that Dobby had heard the name banded about by his master, Lucius Malfoy. So Lucius sends Dobby to Privet Drive. Now the elf must be convincing if he is to succeed. So the very first time we ever see this creature, he is beaten down and bedraggled. Immediatly, our hearts go out to him, and any suspicion about him is discarded the moment we see him. I think that J.K. Rowling wrote it this way so that is exactly how we would feel. To convince Harry, Dobby tells him that he had to come, to warn Harry, and if his master ever knew that he was there! So he heaps praise upon praise upon the great Harry Potter and Harry of course, lets down his guard thinking Dobby upright and honest. But another question raises it's ugly head. How did Dobby know that Harry lived at Privet Drive, and the number of his house? Lucius Malfoy, however, would have that information available to him as he holds a high position at Hogwarts. He warns Harry not to return to Hogwarts, but when Harry starts to push the subject and wanting answers, Dobby tells him he cannot reveal the truth. Harry pushes some more to the point where the elf suddenly goes crazy and begins beating up on himself, but, only to a point where Harry relents somewhat and tones down the interogation! We see Dobby pull the same act just a bit later using the light, and beats himself again. Once more, Harry relents and is no closer to the truth. Unfortunatly, Dobby fails to stop Harry from returning to Hogwarts to the point of holding his mail, and Lucius' plan fails and Harry foils the chamber of secrets and kills the basilisk and gets rid of Tom Riddle. Dobby didn't think about Ron Weasley or the flying Ford Anglia because he had no idea that Ron Weasley would interfere and get him away from Privet Drive. Once it's known, Dobby tries to block Harry at the railway station and goes so far as to almost kill him with a rogue bludger! If anyone thinks that Dobby is beyond evil, let me point something out here.
Remember when the cake fell on that lady's head at the Dursley house and how we all laughed? Just how many of you noticed the look of pure, embodied evil that came over Dobby's face? I didn't think of this until sometime later, and then suddenly I remembered it. Another thing is Dobby's ability to appear and disappear inside Hogwarts as he pleases. Now I thought that this was not possible for a normal house elf, so how does Dobby do it? At the end of the Chamber of Secrets, we see Lucius entering Dumbledore's office. But I wonder why Dobby had followed him. Why was he there? Did Lucius know that Ginny Weasley's diary was already in Dumbledore's office, and that Harry might try to free Dobby? We see Lucius clearly, and deliberatly kick Dobby down the steps in plain view of Dumbledore and Harry. Was this a calculated move? The next thing we see is Harry running up behind Lucius and hands him the battered diary with a folded sock inside. The diary was no thicker than a average book and it had soft front and back covers. Isen't it suprising that Lucius didn't feel something amiss the moment the dairy was passed to him? In fact he barely looks at the thing before he passes it to Dobby. Another question. Why does Dobby stand there, not opening the diary the moment it's given to him? In fact he stands there not moving watching Harry and his master debating. Then Lucius turns and leaves and walks off at a brisk clip telling Dobby to come along. The elf still stands there with the book closed. Harry tells him to open it. By this time, Lucius is a safe distance away and then Dobby opens it to find a sock. Yes, he's estatic about getting his freedom. Wouldn't it look strange if he did not? Now Lucius turns but gives Dobby pleanty of time to get between him and Potter before he points his wand. Sure, Dobby zaps Lucius and we see a dramatic display as he goes sliding across the floor. It's all very dramatic. Exactly how Dobby planned it to look.
We have been convinced that house elves have powerful magic, but to date we've not seen any real evidence of that. What Dobby did to Lucius, any wizard could accomplish on a bad day. Period! In fact, Dobby had not even hurt Lucius.
He shook him up to make it look good. It did look good, and we were all taken in.....me included. You have to ask now, why did Dobby not incapacitate Lucius to an extent where he would no longer be a threat to Harry Potter? Why didn't he kill him when he had the chance? Could it be that Dobby is still secretly working for the Malfoy's? Once Dobby got his freedom, he and Lucius had to make a change of plan. So Dobby vanishes, supposidly looking for work. He couldn't find any for something like two years. If that was true, Dobby should not have made an appearance until book five, yet he turns up in book four, convieniently at Hogwarts school and secures a job. Dumbledore out of the goodness of his heart offers Dobby ten galleons a week and ex amount of days off per month.
Dobby refuses and accepts onlya fraction of what was offered. By doing this, Dobby now looks humbled and thankful even in the eyes of the great Professor Dumbledore. So now he has a job inside Hogwarts. What more could Lucius Malfoy ask for than to have a spy inside the school that can appear and vanish at will? Sound fantastic? Ask yourself. Where was Dobby during year three?
Did he visit the school unseen during that period? He seems very knowledgeable about where everything is. How many times may he have visited Dumbledore's office unseen? You may laugh it off, but how can any of us be sure?
In the 4th book Goblet of Fire, who was it that helped Harry swim underwater to succeed in his task? Dobby did by stealing gillyweed. But who else wanted Harry to succeed in his task? Crouch. So yes, Dobby helped Harry, and he also helped Crouch too. Another question now comes to mind and that is the Room of Requirement of which is important to Dumbledore's Army. Now who knew about the room? Dobby did. Who told Harry about the room? Dobby did.
Winky said something very profound to Harry in the 4th book, and she said something about it not being a wise move in giving Dobby his freedom. Does Winky know far more than we do? Why would she say something like that?
We have to remember one thing that house elves are very loyal to their masters no matter how much they are abused. Just look at Winky. She's still very much devoted to Crouch. Now apply the same terminology to Dobby and Lucius Malfoy. But Dobby's different I hear you all say. How can you be absolutly sure? Perhaps Dobby wanted you to feel this way about him the moment you first saw him. J.K.Rowling may have written the story this way to throw us all a loop right at the end of the story. Our real enemy is not always the one we suspect.
More often than not it is the person, or creature that we least expect. But when the time is right, that creature could turn and bite the very hand that freed it.
It could happen. Remember that Dobby is very close now to Hermione, so close in fact, that to her, Dobby can do no wrong. This is exactly what Dobby wants.
He is also very close to Ron Weasley. What is the common factor here is that both of them are close friends to Harry Potter....Lucius Malfoy's sworn enemy.
Remember, Harry has already beaten Voldemort twice! I have not written this to sway any person's thinking one way or another, but I feel a lot out there are missing the point. Had Dobby succeeded in his plan to stop Harry from returning to Hogwarts, Ginny Weasley would certainly had died. I'd be interested in getting any feedback from you in regard to this topic if you have time. Do you think it's possible that I might have something here? I really feel that Dobby needs watching....very closely. Is he so loyal to Harry like he says he is? How can any of us really be sure?
'It's all my fault, all my fault'
'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

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Old 26-03-2005, 14:11   #2
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Re: Dobby - Questionable?

What a really interesting thread! Well done to Keith whoever you are!

I can really see where you are coming from on this, the many instances where Dobby has been seen to be trying to save Harry from the fate that was about to happen at Hogwarts has at times been nothing short of attempted murder! Dobby almost didn't seem to realise his actions were so dangerous and of course, the way he is written he seems to worship Harry.

In OoTP when Dobby was at Hogwarts, he was the one who alerted Harry that Umbridge was on her way. Now Dobby acted like he could not tell Harry she was coming, because Harry was not his master but seemed happy enough to take an order from Harry that he was not to hurt himself - mmmm. Now could Dobby be helping Harry escape the clutches of Umbridge because Umbridge would have sent Harry back home to the Dursleys where we all know that Voldemort cannot touch him. Voldemort wanted Harry to get the orb which held the prophecy, Lucius may well have know about this plan at that stage and informed Dobby to make sure that Harry did not get himself expelled.

We have a thread here or more than one I think about Snape being a spy - Snape purposely defied Umbridge when she asks for Veritaserum to interogate Harry. Now if Snape is onside with Lucius Malfoy and lets face it, they certainly seem close, then it could well be Snape did it not out of loyalty to Dumbledore or for concern for Harry but because Luicus didn't want Potter to get himself into trouble and out of Hogwarts.
"The truth. It is a beautiful and terrible thing, and should therefore be treated with great caution" Albus Dumbledore
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Old 27-03-2005, 09:01   #3
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Re: Dobby - Questionable?

This is interesting. I don't know how much we can trust Dobby, but I wonder if, as has been reported, they have taken out the house elf storyline with JKR's permission - would she have let them do that if it were going to be so important later on? I guess Dobby could disappear from GoF and then show up later on - he has already been introduced in CoS.

One point about the diary - Harry put the diary inside the sock, so Lucius took the sock off and threw it to the side (where Dobby happened to be standing). He didn't give the diary to Dobby and have Dobby find a sock inside it.

Also, the other house elves can apparate inside Hogwarts like Dobby. JKR said that's how they get their work done.

As for Dobby's ultimate doublecross, I'm not sure either way. All of Dobby's fear of being seen with Harry (like when he tells Harry to go home and then frantically says he has to go when he hears Dumbledore coming) could just be because he doesn't want to get in trouble with his master, Lucius, or because he can't get caught or his plans are foiled . . .

The part about him knowing where Harry lives is really interesting. I wonder if the house elf magic that they have, which is more powerful than wizard magic, somehow helped him locate Harry . . .

Lots to think about here!

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Old 27-03-2005, 10:46   #4
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Re: Dobby - Questionable?

Well, I for one had never thought of this, but I can certainly see it happening.

For one thing, how would Dobby, a House Elf servant who is supposedly kept 'in the dark' be so up-to-date on information, and even know the location of Harry's house and bedroom? Quite disturbing, actually.

Here is a quote taken from Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, American hradback edition, Chapter 2, page 14:

"A house-elf must be set free, sir. And the family will never set Dobby free... Dobby will serve the family until he dies, sir...."

Now, when he says, ''serve the family until he dies'' we assume Dobby is talking about himself, but could he actually mean until he kills Harry? Is there some sort of sick agreement between he and Lucius?

Perhaps then, Dobby does not -want- to kill Harry, but is being forced to do so. Probably just another one of my hair-brained ideas, but perhaps....

Also note that everything Dobby does to 'help' ends up with Harry making a narrow escape from death or serious injury. Dobby seems genuine in the fact that he is perhaps just a little clueless, but it seems to me to be just too much.
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Old 27-03-2005, 10:53   #5
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Re: Dobby - Questionable?

Originally Posted by The SketchWolf
Here is a quote taken from Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, American hradback edition, Chapter 2, page 14:

"A house-elf must be set free, sir. And the family will never set Dobby free... Dobby will serve the family until he dies, sir...."
I really really like this thread, and I want to come back to it after I have sorted through my thoughts, but I thought I would just add that this could also be taken as Dobby will serve the Malfoy's, no matter what. So, even though he has been set free, he is still serving and working for them, although secretly...
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Old 27-03-2005, 11:49   #6
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Re: Dobby - Questionable?

BOING! bought up a good point here. In the movie,
the sock was folded and inside the diary. In the book
'Chamber of Secrets', the diary was inside Harry's sock.
This makes it even more questionable as to why Lucius
would pull the sock off the diary and toss it in the direction
where it could be easily caught by his house elf!
Now, one has to ask why Lucius didn't throw it in the other
direction, away from Dobby? It's irrelevant if you follow
the movie, or the book here. It is my honest opinion that
Dobby bears watching. We cannot rule out the fact, (as yet)
that the elf is not working for the Malfoy's.
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Old 27-03-2005, 13:46   #7
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Re: Dobby - Questionable?

Well one thing we have to keep in mind is that Dumbledore hired him, and Dumbledore trusts him. That right there to me, says quite a bit. Second... from what I undrstand, JKR is consulted on anything that is left out, or added for the movies, so she must have approved the elves being left out. You can imply a new meaning to the same group of words, but it just doesn't hold true.

example. "He was sent to prison for murder." The obvious interpretation of that sentance is that someone has been imprisoned because they have been found guilty of commiting a murder. now... as you have been trying to twist Dobby's words, it's like saying the above phrase is interpreted as "He is going to prison in order to commit a murder." it is a valid and possible interpretation, but easily not true.

Also... we know that the House elves do have to punish themselves for doing or saying something against their masters...Even Kreature, that evil little so-and-so, had to punish himself for betraying Sirius. Harry never even knew what a house elf was, so he certainly wouldn't have expected Dobby to punishe himself, so if Dobby wasn't betraying the Malfoy's, he needn't have banged his head etc.
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Old 27-03-2005, 14:17   #8
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Re: Dobby - Questionable?

The latest news now on the movie 'Goblet of Fire', the
house elves will not be left out. For a while, there was
speculation if Dobby was important enough to make a showing.
The latest I have heard is that Dobby and Winky will make an
appearance. Obviously, J.K.Rowling thought them both
important enough to be included.

In the book 'Goblet of Fire' Dobby does tell Harry quite
clearly that he had traveled the country for two whole
years trying to find work. So the question arises once more.
How did Dobby turn up in the 'Goblet of Fire'? He should
not have turned up again until book five. So just where
WAS he during the whole third year?

Also in the book 'Goblet of Fire', all of them were in the
Hogwarts kitchens talking about Winky, and the subject
of Dobby's freedom came up. The elves looked at Dobby
and turned away as if he'd said something rude, or
embarassing. Or perhaps they knew he was lying, or
covering something up. Harry takes Dobby at his word that
the elf scoured the country for two whole years looking
for work. At the moment, J.K. Rowling has given us no
reason to doubt Dobby's words. But on the other hand,
none of us know where he really went for that period of time.

Another thing to think about, in 'Goblet of Fire', there was a
heated discussion between Hermione and Winky and it was
about Dobby's freedom. Dobby didn't want to get caught up
in the argument. He made no bones about it that he wanted
to be kept right out of the conversation.
Is he trying to cover something up? Perhaps he doesn't want
Hermione poking around on dangerous ground in the attempt
that she might unwillingly, open the pandora's box?

Also, how do we explain the fact that Dobby knew of Harry's
address and his home number? Dobby had never met Harry
before until he arrived in the boy's bedroom. From whom
did he hear about the great Harry Potter? One source points
clearly to Lucius Malfoy. Remember, if Dobby HAD SUCEEDED
in his plan to have stopped Harry from returning to Hogwarts,
Ginny Weasley could well have DIED, because Harry would not
have been there to have saved her.
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Old 27-03-2005, 14:37   #9
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Re: Dobby - Questionable?

If Harry had not been there, Ginny would not have died... Riddle only drew her in to lure Harry to him, perhaps many muggle borns may have died, but not Ginny.

As far as the location of Privit drive. as stated somewhere above, with his position as one of the school governors, Lucious would have had access to Harry's location, something Dobby could easily have gained access to (although punishing himself for it later)

When the other elves looked away as if Dobby had said something rude... it was because he had!!! He was taking payment for his work! Every house elf other than Dobby thinks that utterly shameful! of course the other elves never had to live with the Malfoy's, so didn't understand what Dobby went through there. Even Winky had been well treated, at least till she was blamed for something she didn't do.

I still vote, Dobby is just dobby. Not that he won't have a larger role to play later on, I actualy think he will, but he is not on Voldemorts side.
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Old 28-03-2005, 13:23   #10
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Re: Dobby - Questionable?

Yes. Dumbledore hired Dobby. There was nothing
relevant (at that time) which would have given
Dumbledore recourse not to hire him. I'd like to
think that the elf is 100% and he probably is, but
you must admit, there are an awful lot of questions
out there to make one think. As for me, I think I'm
going to lurk inside the shadows and keep my beady
eyes on this little toe-rag.....for a little while longer.
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