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Discussions on Chamber of Secrets "In my fifth year, The Chamber of Secrets was opened ..."

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Old 30-06-2005, 08:10   #11
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Re: Why Does Snape Want Harry Expelled?

The reason I bought up the fact about Alan Rickman playing the sheriff of Nottingham is that in the movie, he gets into such a rage, that he actually mentions cancelling Christmas. In case some of you have not seen the 'Robin Hood' movie, get it out. Alan Rickman is at his very, very best!

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Old 30-06-2005, 10:39   #12
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Re: Why Does Snape Want Harry Expelled?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haley's Comet
The reason I bought up the fact about Alan Rickman playing the sheriff of Nottingham is that in the movie, he gets into such a rage, that he actually mentions cancelling Christmas. In case some of you have not seen the 'Robin Hood' movie, get it out. Alan Rickman is at his very, very best!

"I'm your huckleberry."
OK, off subject for a sec, YES Rickman is very good in Robin Hood (the one with Costner) As a matter of fact I read that they took alot of his scenes out because he was such a delicious villian that he was dominating the movie! He is also very good (and younger) in the orriginal "Die Hard" movie with Bruce Willis. Another of my favorites is "what the Lord Has Made" he is somewhat of a good guy in this one, tries for a "southern" accent and comes off really well. Good movie too.

OK now on topic!
I think Snapes motivation to get Harry expelled is just a very strong desire for justice. James did all kinds of things and got off. I dont' think James ever even got a detention for flipping Snape bottom side up and thouroughly humiliating him in front everyone. Now here comes Harry, James son, doing all the same things. breaking rules left and right, and getting off. I think it is as simple as revenge. But, I think Snape does also care for Harry's welfare somehow. It wasn't just during the quidditch match that he protected him. He did it in CoS by "suggesting" that Harry was just "in the wrong place at the wrong time" (that incident kind of concernes me a bit, but that is another thread) Then also in OotP, Snape gives umbrige "fake" veritiserium, as well as taking his clue and not revealing him at the end where Harry is wanting to rescue Sirius, think about it. Snapt passes the clue to Dumbledore, then goes to look for Harry! He could have just let Harry die. So. . . I think Snape just wants Harry to get what he deserves for his rule breaking, as well as a little revengish justice on James.
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Old 30-06-2005, 11:08   #13
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Re: Why Does Snape Want Harry Expelled?

Hi SPF,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius Potter Fan
I think Snapes motivation to get Harry expelled is just a very strong desire for justice. James did all kinds of things and got off. I dont' think James ever even got a detention for flipping Snape bottom side up and thouroughly humiliating him in front everyone. Now here comes Harry, James son, doing all the same things. breaking rules left and right, and getting off.
Am I right in assuming that you mean this assessment as seen through Snape's eyes? I hope so, because - of course - Harry is NOT "doing all the same things". That's one big difference between him and his dad: Harry never ever humiliated anybody, neither privately nor in public, as far as I remember. It's just not what he would do. Harry is a very peace-loving character - as long as nobody provokes his aggressive side, which he uses to defend his friends and himself if need be.

Just my two cents.
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Old 30-06-2005, 11:20   #14
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Re: Why Does Snape Want Harry Expelled?

Yes, that's what I meant Sir Cad. How Snape sees it. Snape just sees Harry getting off again and again like James did. I think Snape may even fear Harry humiliating him in some way, he certainly took precautions to prevent Harry from possibly finding out some his past humiliations by removing them into the pensive. I have to admit that Snape realy mystifies me. You think you have him figured out then he does something unexpected and befuddles you again!
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Old 30-06-2005, 11:50   #15
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Re: Why Does Snape Want Harry Expelled?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius Potter Fan
I think Snapes motivation to get Harry expelled is just a very strong desire for justice. James did all kinds of things and got off. I dont' think James ever even got a detention for flipping Snape bottom side up and thouroughly humiliating him in front everyone. Now here comes Harry, James son, doing all the same things. breaking rules left and right, and getting off. I think it is as simple as revenge. But, I think Snape does also care for Harry's welfare somehow. It wasn't just during the quidditch match that he protected him. He did it in CoS by "suggesting" that Harry was just "in the wrong place at the wrong time" (that incident kind of concernes me a bit, but that is another thread) Then also in OotP, Snape gives umbrige "fake" veritiserium, as well as taking his clue and not revealing him at the end where Harry is wanting to rescue Sirius, think about it. Snapt passes the clue to Dumbledore, then goes to look for Harry! He could have just let Harry die. So. . . I think Snape just wants Harry to get what he deserves for his rule breaking, as well as a little revengish justice on James.
I think that Snape would have done these things for any student, regardless of them being Harry Potter or not. He couldn't let a student die, and concerning the veritaserum, he wasn't looking out for Harry, he was looking out for the Order and the little information Harry had on it, as well as saving his own tail. Had he actually given Harry Veritaserum, there is no doubt in my mind that there would be serious repercussions from Dumbledore.

Moving on to the clue, who's to say that Dumbledore didn't already know about Sirius? Dumbledore has a hand in a lot of things, at least in my opinion. Also, it's a bit more of Snape protecting himself, he had to follow protocol for the Order, and give Dumbledore the information. If he hadn't, again, serious repercussions from above.

I can see the justice bit, but it comes off to me as very immature that Snape would still hold a grudge after all these years, that high school pranks would make him have such a hatred for James. I think it's got to be something much deeper for him to continue to hate James after he is already dead, and to carry on that hatred to Harry.
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Old 09-07-2005, 05:54   #16
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Re: Why Does Snape Want Harry Expelled?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boing
I think Fortescue summed it up in her post - Harry is safe from Voldemort, but we're not sure if he's safe from the DEs when he is at the Dursleys. We don't know much about the protection except that Dumbledore said as long as he is welcome at the home where his blood-relatives live, he will still have the protection from the charm Dumbledore placed on him when he left him on the doorstep.

Fortescue - I really like that theory of yours about Snape needing Harry to be free of Voldemort. That would make anyone angry, especially after how much he hated James. Yeah, that's a good one!
Thanks Boingy It makes perfect sense why Snape would be so rotten to Harry from day one - Snape's complete escape from Voldemort cannot happen without Harry - and depending on James Potter's son to be free from Voldemort would be a huge personal kick in the teeth for Snape.

I think it was mentioned that the reason Harry was safe from Voldemort at the Dursley's was because Voldemort took Harry's mothers life. She sacrificed herself to protect her son from Voldemort, that blood sacrifice protects Harry and Petunia from Voldemort since they share blood - it would also then protect Dudley. I don't think that protection includes the Death Eaters or Dementors though, as they were not the ones who killed Lily, so they would not be involved in the protection from the charm Dumbledore placed on Harry and Petunia.

Snape, being big on potions and close to Dumbledore, might know the limitations of the charm, but I don't think his persecution of Harry was to get him expelled, but simply to take Harry down a few pegs from the plinth that Dumbledore and most of the Wizarding world has placed Harry. It's just jealously!!!!
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Old 10-07-2005, 13:24   #17
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Re: Why Does Snape Want Harry Expelled?

..but if Snape succeeded in getting Harry expelled - what would that mean in the context of your argument and theory?
You are saying Snape feels hateful because only Harry can free him from Voldemort by vanquishing him ... but on the next breath saying that he wanted him knocked down a peg.

Point here is - if you are right - Snape would be Harry's mentor - because he knows once Harry does the deed - he is free!
Why the hell would you try have him expelled - effectively making him a weaker wizard - damaging his chances against Voldemort - when you relied on him to release you?
Just doesn't seem right - I would have thought it would be an opposite relationship - as in they would be best buddies - Snape may have the baggage of James - but he is also a realist (hence the reason I think he swapped sides - he so no future in being a DE) and as such he would do all he could to get out of the bond that holds him serve to Voldemort!
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Old 10-07-2005, 19:47   #18
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Re: Why Does Snape Want Harry Expelled?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaise
..but if Snape succeeded in getting Harry expelled - what would that mean in the context of your argument and theory?
You are saying Snape feels hateful because only Harry can free him from Voldemort by vanquishing him ... but on the next breath saying that he wanted him knocked down a peg.

Point here is - if you are right - Snape would be Harry's mentor - because he knows once Harry does the deed - he is free!
Why the hell would you try have him expelled - effectively making him a weaker wizard - damaging his chances against Voldemort - when you relied on him to release you?
Just doesn't seem right - I would have thought it would be an opposite relationship - as in they would be best buddies - Snape may have the baggage of James - but he is also a realist (hence the reason I think he swapped sides - he so no future in being a DE) and as such he would do all he could to get out of the bond that holds him serve to Voldemort!
We are thinking in Snape logic here. He is a Slytherin after all. As for him being Harry's mentor, I think his hatred for James and his connection to the circle of Death Eaters would prevent him from openly showing any kind of mentoring behavior toward Harry. It has been mentioned before, he can't let Draco Malfoy see that he is helping Harry in anyway. When Snape gave Harry Occlumency lessons he made Harry tell everyone he was taking remedial potions - when Draco walked into Snape's office to get his help getting one of the Slytherins out of the toilet, Snape told Draco that Harry was taking remedial potions - it was just a spiteful dig at Harry. If Snape didn't want to cause Harry as much misery as possible he could have made up any excuse, or said nothing at all, but he had to do something that humiliated Harry in front of his Death Eater pals son. If he was so worried about Harry becoming a truly powerful wizard and having all the advantages possible against Voldemort, he wouldn't have stopped giving Harry Occlumency lessons simply because he saw what was in the Pensieve. Harry's actions brought back Snape's memories of his hatred for James and he acted upon them.

The fact that Snape depends on Harry to be released from Voldemort is a huge strain on him, and could be looked upon as part of his personal penance for reverting away from the side of evil. He endures it, rather grudgingly, because that's the only way he can be redeemed.
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Old 11-07-2005, 13:27   #19
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Re: Why Does Snape Want Harry Expelled?

Yah but you miss my point I think.
You are saying that Snape wants Harry out because he reminds him of James and also has this dependency on him that he doesn't like.
I was trying to reply to that saying it would be a massive contradiction if he acted and thought like that.
I agree somewhat - there is a lot of feelings and protection from Snape towards Harry that he keeps locked away and in public chooses to humiliate Harry the same way James humiliated him.
This is the reason Snape wouldn't want Harry expelled - so when reflecting back to the start of this thread - I suggest this was another exhibition of Snape publicly trying to show his distaste and hatred of the boy - but in essence would never let it follow through ...

Does Snape want Harry expelled - no way!
He knows better than most that Harry has to fight Voldemort and that one has to die - so he wouldn't want to do anything that would stop fate
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'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

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Old 11-07-2005, 15:18   #20
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Re: Why Does Snape Want Harry Expelled?

I didn't say Snape wanted Harry out, he just wanted to make him as miserable as possible. Snape is like an adult Draco as far as Harry is concerned. In Harry's first few years, Draco tried to get him to do things that would get him expelled a few times, but it didn't work. I guess the best example of Snape trying to get Harry in trouble was Snape's discussion with Fudge at the end of PoA. Fudge thought a lot of Harry because whether Harry wanted to be or not, he was a very public figure. Everyone who didn't have a personal reason to hate him, (as in Death Eaters and Slytherins,) loved and admired Harry. Snape spent ten years at Hogwarts before Harry showed up, and probably the entire time heard different people praising the boy, including Dumbledore, (thus my previous comment regarding Snape's desire to take Harry down a peg.) Then when Harry showed up at Hogwarts, Snape already hated him because of his father, popularity and because Harry was the prophesized one who could save Snape from another ten years of hiding behind Dumbledore's robes in order to be safe from Voldemort.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaise
I was trying to reply to that saying it would be a massive contradiction if he acted and thought like that.
I agree somewhat - there is a lot of feelings and protection from Snape towards Harry that he keeps locked away and in public chooses to humiliate Harry the same way James humiliated him.
Yes, Snape has never tried to hide his personal feelings toward Harry, not even in front of Dumbledore, and I don't think there are too many of those feelings that could be considered good - but as we discussed in another thread, he has also, on more than one occasion either saved Harry's life, or perpetuated the actions of others who went to Harry's aid. To see what kind of person Snape was look at what lengths he was willing to go to in order for revenge against Lupin. In PoA, he caused Lupin his job by telling all the Slytherins that Lupin was a Werewolf - could his excuse have been because of his deep concern for the safety of the students? I don't think so. Could that have been the excuse Snape gave Dumbledore, who surely knew who spilled the beans if Hagrid knew? That's a pretty despicable thing to do, even to someone considered an enemy or a rival. I agree with JKR; I'm not going to think that Snape has too many good feelings toward anyone, and in the true form of a Slytherin is only looking out for himself.

I don't think Harry and Snape will ever give each other a warm fuzzy, but I'm positive that the last thing that Snape wants is for Harry to be expelled from Hogwarts.
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