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Discussions on Chamber of Secrets "In my fifth year, The Chamber of Secrets was opened ..."

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Old 05-10-2004, 12:25   #1
Alz
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Question If Ginny had died ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKR
In "COS" what would of happen if Ginny Died and Tom Riddle escaped the Diary?

JKR: I can't answer that until all 7 books are finished BUT it would have strenthened the present day voldemort considerably.
My ohh my, that is a great question and an even better answer!

So many questions - anyone want to get us started?
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Old 05-10-2004, 12:36   #2
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Re: If Ginny had died ...

I think that had Ginny died in CoS, we would have seen the war against Voldemort start much earlier than the beginning of OotP (or end of GoF, whichever way you want to see it!)

And if Tom Riddle was 'alive and well' would Voldemort, as the 'non human/living/mortal being' we know and hate, even exist?

Most certainly the Weasley family would never be the same again if their only daughter/sister had died.
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Old 05-10-2004, 12:44   #3
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Re: If Ginny had died ...

Thats weird because I just thought that there would be both Riddle and Voldemort if that happened
Anyway I think that Riddle being one of the precautions of Voldemort dying does of course say more if Riddle were allowed to live--but what would have happened--he would have had his own body--would the other Voldemort spirit find its way into Riddle's body?
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Old 05-10-2004, 13:18   #4
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Re: If Ginny had died ...

My question is simple, how would the manifestation of 'soul' caught in a diary make a re-born Voldemort stronger?
Voldemort's soul was 'in hiatus' after the night of the Potters attack, we know how it lived until Pettigrew made him a substitute body and then he was reborn ...
In CoS the 'spirit' of Riddle would have been given a true persona if he had succeeded in killing Ginny ...

How could the 2 what look like separate entities help each other to be stronger?
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Old 16-10-2004, 08:30   #5
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Re: If Ginny had died ...

The more I read it, the more confusing it seems to be! However you look at it, it would seem that there would be two separate beings - Voldemort and Riddle, so how, as Blaise says, can Riddle's memory, had it become corporeal (to use a Potter expression!) be 'integrated' into Voldemort? Anyone who can explain this to a bit of a dunderhead, it would be greatly appreciated!
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Old 16-10-2004, 12:00   #6
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Re: If Ginny had died ...

I like to look at it this way ....

The 'essence' in the diary was separate from the 'spirit' of Voldemort that was floating around post Potter attack ...
If with the diary and essence, Riddle had succeeded, then he would have been born from this as a full form and living Riddle ...
With the post Potter attack spirit we know that actually was re-born in GoF ...

So JKR validates that both 'things' could have lived and if the 'diary essence' was added to the re-born Voldemort it would have made him even stronger ....

What I see is one is Riddle and one is Voldemort ... now how interesting is that!
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'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

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'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
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Old 23-10-2004, 23:17   #7
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Re: If Ginny had died ...

Maybe it involves - our favourite - time.

Riddle would obviously be from the past. And Voldemort is from the present. If Riddle had been brought back to life (and I am on the theory that Voldemort and Riddle are two different entities... so if Riddle was brought back, you would have Riddle and Voldemort (revived in the GoF)).

With the powers of the past and the powers of the future, they must somehow combine to give a strong, strong patnership. And maybe that is what JK means. The past must hold something for Voldemort to make him even stronger than what we see him now (after his revival in GoF) and maybe that is part of his quest in Book 6 and Book 7 - to go back in time to change something... Maybe Voldemort, in his past, did something to make him less strong.. and this 'something' may involve Lily Potter. Tom Riddle in CoS wouldn't have met Lily yet...
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Old 24-10-2004, 04:52   #8
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Re: If Ginny had died ...

But the contradiction in this is that Voldemort that was ressurected in GoF was the Riddle/Voldemort - his essence and being was still contained in spiritual form until Pettigrew ressurected him ...

For me - that Riddle that was reborn if he succeded would have been a different entity to the other Voldemort - perhaps Voldemort had this 'version' of him gifted with extra's ... it seems like this was one of his steps taken long ago - as such perhaps he enhanced this version of him?
He would have been gifted with one thing - knowledge of the future ... because if Voldemort did use this as a step to ensure his survival the 'step' would have been aware of what was going to happen in the future - but I dont think he could have made any changes because this 'entity' would have been real time ...
Does that make any sense?
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'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

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'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
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Old 07-11-2004, 14:11   #9
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Re: If Ginny had died ...

I think I understand about the knowledge of the future thing, but it was my understanding that Tom Riddle in the diary learned all about Harry and what happened with Voldemort's downfall from what Ginny Weasley told him in the diary.

That's why Tom Riddle's "target" changed from the original plan of killing muggle borns to eliminating Harry Potter. Because he learned from Ginny that Harry survivied Voldemort's attack and left Voldemort powerless.

Maybe the diary was a semi-planned way for the 16 year old Tom Riddle Memory to learn about the future.?

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Old 08-11-2004, 12:15   #10
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Re: If Ginny had died ...

OK, Ginny would refer to the people Voldemort and Harry Potter ... both names will be unknown to Tom Riddle ...
Under your scenario - he wouldnt know anything about the future - ergo those names mean nothing to him - he had no reason to want to target Harry as he had no inclination.
I think that Riddle, armed with future knowledge just wanted to re-birth - so get Ginny killed.
But then when she started to talk about Harry - he then adjusted because he had the potential to kill 2 birds with one stone as it were ...
If he was being ressurected he knew he was dead - he would also know that the person with the power to vanquish him was a Harry Potter - 2 and 2 - he was dead, Harry must be alive - Ginny can bring him ... all good
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'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

Dumbledore - HBP Pg536

'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
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