Left Page Border
Makes the header linkable

Go Back   The Final Horcrux > Discussions on Books 1 thru 5 > Discussions on Chamber of Secrets

Discussions on Chamber of Secrets "In my fifth year, The Chamber of Secrets was opened ..."

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-11-2004, 12:20   #11
catchthesnitch
Curious Yellow
 
catchthesnitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Madison, WI
Age: 47
Posts: 237
Rep Power: 15catchthesnitch will become famous soon enough

Re: If Ginny had died ...

I beg to differ. The name Voldemort was well known to Tom Riddle when he was sixteen years old, and when his memory was preserved in that fateful diary.

What about the whole "Tom Marvolo Riddle -- I am Lord Voldemort" thing? And Ginny, knowing the hero she thought Harry was would have told Tom all about Harry being the "boy who lived." and that Harry survived an attack by Lord Voldemort when he was just a baby.

Based on what Ginny told him, that's why he wanted to target Harry. Because Ginny told him that Harry defeated him! "How can a baby, with no extraordinary magical powers....defeat the greatest wizard who ever lived?" or something like that.
__________________
*
*

"You bloody fool. You should never mix your drinks."
-- Peter Marwood


"Be careful. Be very, very careful. This game is not for the weak."
-- The Game Cat


R=V+/-H, H=0.2675
catchthesnitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2004, 21:50   #12
Weasleyfanforever
TFH Graduate
 
Weasleyfanforever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: MN
Age: 33
Posts: 1,320
Rep Power: 16Weasleyfanforever will become famous soon enough

Re: If Ginny had died ...

I have to go with CTS on this one:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoS
"Why do you care how I escaped?" said Harry slowly. "Voldemort was
after your time ......
"Voldemort," said Riddle softly, "is my past, present, and future, Harry
Potter . . . ."
He pulled Harry's wand from his pocket and began to trace it through the air, writing three shimmering words:

TOM MARVOLO RIDDLE

Then he waved the wand once, and the letters of his name rearranged themselves:

I AM LORD VOLDEMORT

"You see?" he whispered. "It was a name I was already using at Hogwarts, to my most intimate friends only, of course. You think I was going to use my filthy Muggle father's name forever? I, in whose veins runs the blood of Salazar Slytherin himself, through my mother's side? I, keep the name of a foul, common Muggle, who abandoned me even before I was born, just because he found out his wife was a witch? No, Harry - I fashioned myself a new name, a name I knew wizards everywhere would one day fear to speak, when I had become the greatest sorcerer in the world!"
__________________
Frodo Failed.
Bush Has The Ring.
Weasleyfanforever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2004, 13:32   #13
Alz
Head Unspeakable
 
Alz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast US, originally UK!!
Age: 44
Posts: 7,108
Rep Power: 10Alz is on a distinguished road

Re: If Ginny had died ...

OK, lets look at this again ...

His name was Tom Riddle - there is nothing to assume that indeed his middle name wasnt Marvolo ... so as such it wasnt like he made up the name to have a pretty anagram - it was his name ...
Chance are - later in life when he really wanted to dump his muggle name and start on the evil path - he then figured out his pretty anagram ...

IF, and indeed this is an IF, Voldemort did travel back in time - he could have passed on all the details you are talking about ...

I just dont see what would have got Ginny talking about Harry and especially Voldemort - a name most kids have grown up not allowed to utter ...
I disagree as well
__________________
'It's all my fault, all my fault'
'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

Dumbledore - HBP Pg536

'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
Alz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2004, 14:03   #14
catchthesnitch
Curious Yellow
 
catchthesnitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Madison, WI
Age: 47
Posts: 237
Rep Power: 15catchthesnitch will become famous soon enough

Re: If Ginny had died ...

I don't have my book with me right now, but my gosh, why wouldn't Ginny be talking about Harry?! According to Ron, Harry's all she talked about the entire summer before and it got Ron all bored! Harry was her crush! Little eleven year old girls just blossoming in boy stuff -- if they have a crush it's all they talk about. Idol worship! Hero worship! Eleven year old girls are famous for it.

Ginny was smitten with Harry her first year, and if Tom/Diary was trying to lull Ginny into a sense of comfort and ability to talk to it, wouldn't he show an interest in the unrequited love Ginny had for Harry then? The crush? I know when I was a girl I wrote in my diary all about my crushes -- the diary just didn't write back to me.

Maybe there's a misunderstanding here, but my bottom line is that 16 year old Tom did not know about Harry Potter and Voldemort's death until Ginny told him about it in the diary. That's when Tom changed his "target" from killing the muggle borns like Herminone, Justin, and Penelope to finding Harry.
__________________
*
*

"You bloody fool. You should never mix your drinks."
-- Peter Marwood


"Be careful. Be very, very careful. This game is not for the weak."
-- The Game Cat


R=V+/-H, H=0.2675
catchthesnitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 05:44   #15
catchthesnitch
Curious Yellow
 
catchthesnitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Madison, WI
Age: 47
Posts: 237
Rep Power: 15catchthesnitch will become famous soon enough

Re: If Ginny had died ...

Ok, this post is going to be a slew of quotes, but in light of Blase's and my conversation yesterday, when I didn't have my book, there's a need to put up these quotes.

The debate in essence was how Tom Riddle's diary found out about Harry and the defeat of Voldemort when Harry was one year old. I think (but I'm not certainly limiting it to this) that Ginny told The Diary about it. While it may not be the only way he found out, it certainly is one of them. Blaise questioned why Ginny would tell the Diary about Harry and LV. Well, here it is, right from the Riddle's mouth:

CoS Chapter 17, The Heir of Slytherin

Quote:
Ginny's been writing in it for months and months, telling me .... how she didn't think the famous, good, great Harry Potter would ever like her ... It's very boring, having to listen to the silly little troubles of an eleven year old girl ... but I was patient, I wrote back. I was sympathetic, I was kind. Ginny loved me.
Quote:
Well, you see, Ginny told me all about you, Harry,' said Riddle. "Your whole fascinating history." His eyes roved over the lightning scar on Harry's forehead and their expression grew hungrier. "I knew I must find out more about you, talk to you, meet you if I could . . ."
Quote:
But I wasn't going to wast those long years I'd spent searching for it. I decided to leave behind a diary, preserving my sixteen year old self in its pages, so that one day, with luck, I would be able to lead another in my footsteps and finish Salazar Slytherin's noble work.
Quote:
For many months now, my new target has been --- you.
Quote:
From everything Ginny had told me about you, I knew you would go to any lengths to solve the mystery -- particularly if one of your best friends was attacked. And Ginny had told me the whole school was buzzing because you could speak Parseltongue...
Quote:
I have many questions for you, Harry Potter.....Well, how is it that you -- a skinny boy with no extraordinary magical talent -- managed to defeat the greatest wizard of all time? How did you escape with nothing but a scar, while Lord Voldemort's powers were destroyed?
Quote:
How did you survive? Tell me everything. The longer you talk, the longer you stay alive...but after all, it was merely a lucky chance that saved you from me. That's all I wanted to know.
But then, I also think there's some in here that supports Blase's time-travel theory. The line "That's all I wanted to know" especially says something to me about a circular event where the diary would, if Harry hadn't sunk the basilisk fang into the book, inform Voldemort about Harry and tell him either to kill him (to start the circle) or not to kill him to prevent his downfall.

And how did Tom know that Voldemort was the greatest wizard of all time?

but the point is -- Ginny did tell Tom about the events 11 years prior, and in the CoS Tom is grilling Harry for the information to complete the picture.
__________________
*
*

"You bloody fool. You should never mix your drinks."
-- Peter Marwood


"Be careful. Be very, very careful. This game is not for the weak."
-- The Game Cat


R=V+/-H, H=0.2675
catchthesnitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2004, 14:00   #16
Alz
Head Unspeakable
 
Alz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast US, originally UK!!
Age: 44
Posts: 7,108
Rep Power: 10Alz is on a distinguished road

Re: If Ginny had died ...

ummm - interesting
OK, I discussed your findings with you earlier - and yep, you have proved your point on that quite well - but me still thinks there is a time element to this ... but time will tell .. get it

When we move project chapter by chapter onto CoS - I think I really need to read the whole book again

Nice one CTS - you made your point in an excellent manner!
__________________
'It's all my fault, all my fault'
'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

Dumbledore - HBP Pg536

'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
Alz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2005, 15:22   #17
kashlie
afraid of my own shadow
 
kashlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Knight Bus, second level, fourth bed on the right
Age: 36
Posts: 1,004
Rep Power: 15kashlie will become famous soon enough

Re: If Ginny had died ...

Sorry to bring this one up by I find it a fearfull fascinating subject!!

If Ginny had died, the diary essence of Riddle would have seeked out the 'spirit' of Voldemort and found a way to join again. Thus becoming powerful again, in a healthy 16 year old body, with all the knowledge he needs in an instant.

I think JKR ruled out that anyone had been time travelling, so that just leaves it to Ginny and arrogance on Riddle's part, that Harry defeated 'the greatest wizard of all time'. What Ginny most likely described as awful, Riddle would have thought was wonderful.
I have come to the conclusion that Riddle asked a lot of questions of Ginny, especially when she told him that Harry defeated Lord Voldemort and is now famous. He would have wanted to know everything, so he was prepared when the time came to kill Ginny.

You have to wonder, then, if Ginny had died and 16 year old Riddle is free of the diary, what happens next? What about Harry? Would he have been left for dead or defeated? Riddle would want to make sure he died.

Then Riddle has to get out of the Chamber. He wouldn't be likely to go out through the bathroom, so there has to be another way out.

And (omg) his plan with the diary was to get someone to continue Slytherin's work. Which means Salazar Slytherin used the Chamber (der) but which also means that there would have to be weapons and 'secrets' and other such dangerous things hidden in the Chamber.

The chain reaction to Ginny dying is astronomical, but the question can be answered without seeing her die. They will just have to go back into the Chamber
__________________
kashlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2006, 02:55   #18
Norbert
TFH Graduate
 
Norbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: SW Ont. Canada
Age: 45
Posts: 66
Rep Power: 15Norbert is on a distinguished road

Re: If Ginny had died ...

What would have happened if Ginny had died?

Now that we know that the Diary was a Horcrux, I firmly beleive that the 16 year old Voldemort would have sought out the 'Spirit' in Albania and the two would have joined, present day spirit Voldy entering 16 yr old Voldemorts body - If that were possible... Can portions of souls that have been separated be rejoined?

Or, after 16 yr old Tom Riddle helps Voldemort conjure his own body, would the two halves get together and play rock/paper/scissors in order to determine which one of them would have to become sealed in an inatimate object to become a Horcrux again?

Either way the re-birth would have taken place sooner - sans wormtail!
__________________

"That's all I have to say about that." - Forrest Gump
Norbert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-10-2006, 05:03   #19
kashlie
afraid of my own shadow
 
kashlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Knight Bus, second level, fourth bed on the right
Age: 36
Posts: 1,004
Rep Power: 15kashlie will become famous soon enough

Re: If Ginny had died ...

if ginny had have died....

it was a long time ago that i posted in this thread!
now i believe, with each Horcrux Voldemort gets back, he gets more powerful. Hence why i now think that if ginny had died, you'd have a young, fit, wizard with all his potential still there, PLUS part of the older, *wiser* and more evil Voldemort, who would then also search out his other Horcuxes...which i now also believe were all made in the ten years between him leaving Borgin and Burkes and going to visit Dumbledore for the teaching position...
but i digress...
i still agree with what i said before, that it would have wreaked havoc on Hogwarts had Ginny died, and i do believe there is more to the chamber than what we have seen. i also think there is more to it than Voldemort just killing Harry right then and there, if it deserves a mention in book 7
__________________
kashlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-10-2006, 20:07   #20
Alz
Head Unspeakable
 
Alz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast US, originally UK!!
Age: 44
Posts: 7,108
Rep Power: 10Alz is on a distinguished road

Re: If Ginny had died ...

Actually - I just had a brain wave ...
What is JKR's enigmatic comment about waiting until book 7 had to do with the ability to re-absorb the soul portions removed via horcruxes?
Think about it - if Voldemort was able to ingest this portion with his current soul portion - it would be like having two strong, mature pieces of soul for the price of one!
__________________
'It's all my fault, all my fault'
'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

Dumbledore - HBP Pg536

'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
Alz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


  Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:59.
Style Designed by Epic Designz
 
 

Harry Potter & all associated names and images remain the property of J.K Rowling, Bloomsbury Publishers UK and AOL Time Warner.All other logos and trademarks in this site are property of their respective owner. The comments are property of their posters, all the rest 2005 by The Final Horcrux.
You are not permitted to hotlink/hyperlink any images from the site.
Please respect the intellectual rights of The Final Horcrux. You must contact the webmaster/administrator of The Final Horcrux if you wish to take any part of the site and contents for reproduction on another site, forum, or other web presence. Any site that plagiarises The Final Horcrux will be subject to a complaint being registered against them.
 

Right Page Border