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Discussions on Chamber of Secrets "In my fifth year, The Chamber of Secrets was opened ..."

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Old 17-01-2006, 07:31   #1
Vold. E. Mort
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Would Lucius have died like Voldemort?

At the end of CoS, right after Harry tricked Lucius into freeing Dobby, Lucius was just about to hit Harry with the AK, when Dobby laid the smack down on his former master.. My question is, would Lucius have suffered the same fate as Voldemort if he'd gotten the AK off? Was Harry's protection limited to just LV? Or would it be a universal thing where anyone trying to AK him gets a backfire? Clearly, his protection extended to Quirrel, but that could be because LV was using him as a host at the time. He shook hands with Lucius in the book store, and Lucius didn't turn to dust. Peter Petigrew grabbed him in POA, begging for mercy and didn't turn to dust.. So clearly it isn't a case of any Death Eater being killed on contact.

I guess what I'm trying to figure out, is exactly how far does Lily's protection extend? If say a random person decided to AK Harry, would they get the same result as LV or is it something unique to LV?
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Old 17-01-2006, 08:13   #2
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Re: Would Lucius have died like Voldemort?

Oh I hope not. ooh -- did I say that out loud?

Seriously, that is an interesting question. I've wondered about a lot of stuff with this. Technically, we don't really know what happened with VM's AK. We do know that VM made the prophesy happen by selecting Harry, though, which means that Lucius couldn't have killed him. But, that said, I doubt in the books that Lucius would have tried. I think that was creative license with the movies.
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Old 17-01-2006, 10:45   #3
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Re: Would Lucius have died like Voldemort?

Persaonally i beleive that the protection is just agains Voldermort, I would back this up by referring to GoF. Voldermort could have used the blood of any wizard to ressurect but chose to use Harry's, so as to get arround his protection, despite the extra risks involved.
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Old 17-01-2006, 11:36   #4
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Re: Would Lucius have died like Voldemort?

The significance of using Harry's blood was a psychological thing for LV, I think. It irked him that this "kid" had managed to defy him several times already and LV couldn't even touch him.

I think the protection that Lily gave Harry is a bit odd anyway. It obviously saved Harry from LV's AK, but it didn't stop LV from using Crucio on Harry in that same graveyard. It also didn't protect Harry from Snape's rather nasty spell in HBP (where Buckbeak had to leap in to help). So, is Harry only protected of AKs or is he only protected from AKs from the one who murdered the one making the sacrfice--in this case LV?

And I think it's fair to ask how much of Lily's protection (that is in Harry's blood) is tied to the protective spells DD set up for Harry when he gave Harry to Lily's only remaining "blood" relative to be cared for.
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Old 18-01-2006, 10:48   #5
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Re: Would Lucius have died like Voldemort?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeleneB
it didn't stop LV from using Crucio on Harry in that same graveyard.
But then by this time LV had used Harry's blood and according to his own theory, Harry was no longer protected from him!!
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Old 18-01-2006, 11:13   #6
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Re: Would Lucius have died like Voldemort?

I see what you mean, but I'm not sure what using Harry's blood (for sure) did for LV except make it so he could touch Harry. That alone implies that Lily's sacrificial protection was unique to LV (some have wondered if it would protect Harry from all AKs). And there's still the link of Lily's blood to having to go to the Dursleys every summer for DD's protection. I have a feeling DD used that protection from Lily as part of his additional spells. Harry has still been protected to some degree from LV--I guess that's what LV's waiting for and why he didn't just have Draco or Snape kill Harry at the school?
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Old 18-01-2006, 12:18   #7
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Re: Would Lucius have died like Voldemort?

I never got the impression that Harry's protection at the Dursley's had anything to to with the protection that Lily's sacrifice gave him. DD said that in sending Harry to his aunt he was invocing a very old magic but regarding Lily's protection for Harry, DD said that it was completely unexpected and that his understanding of what happened was his own conclusions, it was never stated as absolute wizarding fact.
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Old 18-01-2006, 12:18   #8
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Re: Would Lucius have died like Voldemort?

Agreed with HeleneB here - the protection seems only to protect against Voldemort.
But I do feel it serves 2 levels of protection - let me see if I can explain that.
OK - Lily's sacrifice meant that Voldemort could not touch Harry - or so it seems to suggest a la AK being bounced.
But also remember Dumbledore also added protections that as long as Harry return to Privat Drive and Petunia - he would always be safe there - something like while he could call it home. That was also somewhat done via blood ...
SO - Lily sacrifice protected Harry from Voldemort - Dumbledore's protection meant Harry was protected while away from Hogwarts, I think this is the one that prevented DE's and the likes attacking him and continues to do so - otherwise you would have expected an attempt on the Dursley's by now

If Lucius had attempted an AK on Harry in Hogwarts - I think Harry would have died ... another reason to assume this is because of when Harry was chasing Snape/Malfoy in HBP, Harry was attacked by other DE's and was hurt to the point Snape joined in to prevent it ...
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Old 18-01-2006, 15:12   #9
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Re: Would Lucius have died like Voldemort?

Voldemort killed Lily, "No, please don't kill him, kill me instead, blah, blah"

Harry was protected because his mother sacrificed her own life to Voldemort in order to save Harry. Malfoy had nothing to do with it, therefore, Harry wouldn't have the same protection from Lucius or any other Death Eater!

I don't think they realize that about Privet Drive yet. I wonder if a flock of Death Eaters will finally get a brain and show up at the Dursley's in the final book???
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Old 18-01-2006, 17:15   #10
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Re: Would Lucius have died like Voldemort?

Here's what makes me think Harry's protection from DD is linked to Lily's sacrifice and extended beyond LV. OotP, pp 835-6
Quote:
". . .Voldemort had been vanquished hours before, but his supporters--and many of them are almost as terrible as he--were still at large and angry, desperate, and violent. And I had to make my decision too with regard to the years ahead. Did I believe that Voldemort was gone forever? No. I knew not whether it would be ten, twenty, or fifty years before he returned, but I was sure he would do so, and I was sure too, knowing him as I have done, that he would not rest until he killed you. . .

"I made my decision. You would be protected by an ancient magic of which he knows, which he despises and which he has always, therefore, underestimated--to his cost. I am speaking, of course, of the fact that your mother died to save you. She gave you a lingering protection he never expected, a protection that flows in your veins to this day. I put my trust, therefore, in your mother's blood. I delivered you to her sister, her only remaining relative. . .

". . .yet still she [Petunia] took you, and in doing so, she sealed the charm I placed upon you. Your mother's sacrifice made the bond of blood the strongest shield, I could give you."
So, if DD wanted to protect Harry from the DEs, shouldn't DD's charm keep them from being able to kill Harry? If I'm reading this correctly, even if LV somehow neutralized Harry's protection in GoF, in CoS, Lucius would have experienced a bounceback spell--if that's what would happen in DD's charm.

Last edited by HeleneB; 18-01-2006 at 21:56..
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