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Discussions on Chamber of Secrets "In my fifth year, The Chamber of Secrets was opened ..."

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Old 05-04-2005, 04:39   #11
Angel
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Question read minds...

as we all know JKR has left SOOOO many clues and bits along the way that tie into other bits in further books etc etc... but last night as i was re-re-re-re-reading PS i read this line which made me think... ah thats clever - n used like 4 books later!!

"Could Snape possibly know they'd found out about the Philosopher's Stone? Harry didn't see how he could - yet he sometimes had the horrible feeling that Snape could read minds."

which turns out to be true... snape can read minds - the occulamancy (sp??) lessons that harry attends with snape later on prove this...

so maybe snape did know that harry n co knew about the stone...

any thoughts and opinions??

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Old 05-04-2005, 05:08   #12
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Re: read minds...

I think that the more you read the septology, the more we find these little titbits in the earlier stuff!

I thoroughly agree with you Angel that this is a preview of the mind reading stuff, and I actually started a similar thread after reading the Chapter by Chapter bit in CoS about a preview of legilimency which you should be able to go to from here, if I have done link properly!

Preview of Legilimency?


So as a matter of interest, can anyone find any others links like this to the art of occlumency of legilimency?
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Old 05-04-2005, 05:14   #13
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Re: read minds...

Well, that is interesting. We've suspected before that Snape has read Harry's mind in other books besides the fifth one.

But my question is does Snape have to say 'Occulamence' in order for it to work? And how close to Harry does Snape have to be?

Very good theory Angel.
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Old 05-04-2005, 09:36   #14
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Re: read minds...

I always thought Snape used in in Book 1 and I always thought DD used it on Harry in Book 2 when he asked is there anything Harry wishes to tell him
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Old 05-04-2005, 10:34   #15
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Re: read minds...

yeah, I know there's another thread on this...somewhere...I remember posting to it not that long ago...

I think a very good Legilimens can get some info without using words or a wand. as a matter of fact haveing to do either would let the person know what you are up to, and allow them to get their defenses ready to block the spell, like Snape was trying to do in the lessons. also, yes there are lots of places in all the books that it appears Snape and Dumbledore read Harry's mind...Good thing Umbridge couldn't!
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Old 05-04-2005, 12:39   #16
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Re: read minds...

Yeah ok--this goes back to our posts about wandless magic
Snape and DD are good at it, so in theory, they shouldnt need wands to do it-

Maybe Snape said it out loud just to train Harry since the average wizard might have to say the words out loud before trying to read minds
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Old 05-04-2005, 13:39   #17
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Re: read minds...

With the power of 'merge' i have added Angel's thread to the one started by Tinky - seems like a logical addition considering the thread title and content - please continue in this thread
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Old 22-06-2005, 18:52   #18
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Re: Preview of Legilimency?

It makes me wonder though - we saw what Harry went through when Snape was trying to teach him Occlumency - he literally blacked out. If the force of Snape entering his mind was so powerful when Harry was trying to fight it, how could Snape or Dumbledore enter Harry's mind without him knowing?

In OotP during O.W.L exams, Harry sat behind Parvati and tried to read her mind - something came to him, but it was not clear if it was his reading her mind or simply remembering the answer to the question. Maybe he did get a snatch of what she was thinking as the way Snape explained it, and as we saw from example, it seems if a person is thinking of something, that is what the person trying to do Legilmency will see. As Snape explained, mind reading is something Muggles call it - the mind is not a book to be read, but much more complicated than that.
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Old 23-06-2005, 09:06   #19
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Re: Preview of Legilimency?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortescue
It makes me wonder though - we saw what Harry went through when Snape was trying to teach him Occlumency - he literally blacked out. If the force of Snape entering his mind was so powerful when Harry was trying to fight it, how could Snape or Dumbledore enter Harry's mind without him knowing?
I think it depends on the power behind the spell. If Snape and DD had been reading Harry's mind earlier, they were only reading the things that he was thinking about at the moment (The Stone, The voices) and were not really penetrating his mind. Or possibly they couldn't really penetrate his mind because they were do legilmens wandless and without the incantation, so there wasn't alot of power behind it. So because it was just a "light" legilmens, Harry couldn't feel them trying to break in. But when Snape was teaching Harry Occlumency, he was using his wand, saying the incantation, and trying to penetrate very deeply into Harry's mind, probably putting more power behind the spell than he normally would just to make sure that Harry would know what it felt like.
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Old 23-06-2005, 13:21   #20
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Re: Preview of Legilimency?

Quote:
Originally Posted by psychgirl83
I think it depends on the power behind the spell. If Snape and DD had been reading Harry's mind earlier, they were only reading the things that he was thinking about at the moment (The Stone, The voices) and were not really penetrating his mind. Or possibly they couldn't really penetrate his mind because they were do legilmens wandless and without the incantation, so there wasn't alot of power behind it. So because it was just a "light" legilmens, Harry couldn't feel them trying to break in. But when Snape was teaching Harry Occlumency, he was using his wand, saying the incantation, and trying to penetrate very deeply into Harry's mind, probably putting more power behind the spell than he normally would just to make sure that Harry would know what it felt like.
That's true, but in the case of Harry's past references to his suspicions that others are reading his mind, and Snape's admittance that he can present false memories when in the presence of another who can perform Leligimency, how would one know when to present those false memories??? And also, is it possible that he can and has done that in Dumbledore's presence and maybe that's part of the reason why Dumbledore believes and trusts him???
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