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Discussions on Goblet of Fire "I don't know who put my name in the Goblet of Fire ..."

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Old 19-12-2004, 13:47   #1
Alz
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Question Missing Shadow?

OK - in GoF at the end when we had the Priori Incantem moment ... we saw a few instances of the last spells performed by Voldemort's wand ...
We saw a few people as well as Pettigrews hand ....

My question - why didnt we see a shadow for the spell that Voldemort supposdly attacked Harry with and lead to his downfall?

It should have appeared just before Lily ....

We know that Priori Incantem isnt all about killings - we saw it used at the start of GoF when seeing who sent the dark mark up at the Quidditch World cup ... and also saw Pettigrews hand come out at the start of the sequence that lead to the shadows ....

Has to be a reason no - please help shed some light!
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Old 19-12-2004, 14:44   #2
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Re: Missing Shadow?

My first thoughts on this was that it wouldn't show that spell, but then I realised that of course it should have shown that spell. Nice pick up Blaise.

The Priori Incantem spell should have shown the hand, Harry/Voldemort then Lily etc. The only reason I can think of for it not showing, is that the spell did not do the job it set out to do - kill Harry. So perhaps the Priori Incantem spell only shows actions that the wand peformed sucessfully?

One other thing that might not mean anything but which I thought about, was the particular order in which the spell had people coming out of the wand had been wrong in some books and it was put down as an error. What if this was a diversion? Although I dont recall JKR saying anything about the wand shadows being important, so I am probably just being suspcious.
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Old 19-12-2004, 23:15   #3
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Re: Missing Shadow?

I am really liking the idea that matbe it was the spell on Lily that caused the Harry/Voldemort effect. No one really know that he survived AK that night, it is just hearsay and specualtion, unless someone was there that night that came forward, that we have just not been told about yet... Even Voldemort does not say that Harry survived the AK:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voldemort, GoF
His mother died in the attempt to save him - and unwittingly provided him with a protection I admit I had not foreseen. ... I could not touch the boy." Voldemort raised one of his long white fingers and put it very close to Harry's cheek.
"His mother left upon him the traces other sacrifice. . . . This is old magic, I should have remembered it, I was foolish to overlook it... but no matter. I can touch him now."
Harry felt the cold tip of the long white finger touch him, and thought his head would burst with the pain. Voldemort laughed softly in his ear, then took the finger away and continued addressing the Death Eaters.
"I miscalculated, my friends, I admit it. My curse was deflected by the woman's foolish sacrifice, and it rebounded upon myself.
What I am wondering though is, Why would the spell on Lily have caused this reaction? Could Lily have made a deal with Voldemort, as in You Kill me, and let the baby live, and he agreed, thinking at the time that he wouldn't have to honor it because she would be dead. So when he attempted to AK her, it did two things, it put a protection on Harry because of the deal as well as motherly protection, but the spell on Lily backfired after killing and hit Voldemort because he didn't really plan on honoring it... The only thing thathas me at a loss though would be the injury to Harry, unless that is a physical manifestation of either Lily's sacrifice, or Voldemort's broken promise... I am thinking that maybe this is way too out there
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Old 20-12-2004, 05:54   #4
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Re: Missing Shadow?

I think Nagini and WFF bring up interesting points.

I like the idea of the spell backfiring so because it didn't work you wouldn't see the person it had tried to effect.

But, on the other hand, WFF makes an interesting point that perhaps Harry got his scar from Voldemort attacking his mom . . . I am thinking that perhaps not on this one only because I thought I remembered reading somewhere that Voldemort actually talks about trying to kill Harry and it backfiring. Probably in the DE circle in GoF - I'll have to go back and check that out. Good thoughts, though!
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Old 20-12-2004, 09:56   #5
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Re: Missing Shadow?

I'm really liking Gin's idea here. The wand shadows are the results of each spell, so if the spell/curse was never completed, than no result could be shown. I suppose that you could argue that Voldemort's downfall from power was a result of the backfired curse, but there isn't really a visible result.

Perhaps when the curse backfired, it went through Voldemort's wand, and had a weird reaction with the wand, resulting in it kind of being erased from the wand's memory, in such a way that it "never occurred".
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Old 20-12-2004, 13:56   #6
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Re: Missing Shadow?

Isn't it strange that when Voldemort performed the AK curse on Harry, (I am more or less sure that he did this after Lily died as it showed that in one of the films.) that the spell backfired because of his mothers protection. Then, years later Voldemort and Harry meet face to face for a duel and what should happen, but Harry's wand comes to his rescue to force Voldemorts wand to backfire on Voldemort again!
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Old 21-12-2004, 06:51   #7
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Re: Missing Shadow?

The significance is this really - trying to get a better understanding of what happened ...
If there was no wand shadow for the AK spell that Voldemort was suppose to have cursed at Harry ... then we start to look at stuff like above - in so much that the spell that got Voldemort and Harry was the curse aimed at Lily ...
I still think that even thou the AK spell didnt do as intended - it was still cast - as such Voldemort's wand should have a shadow of it ... as I said above priori incantem isnt about seeing who has been killed ect - it is about seeing the spells cast from the wand ...
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'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

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Old 26-12-2004, 21:29   #8
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Re: Missing Shadow?

I am not saying that the AK spell wasn't cast, I am just saying that it wasn't cast at Harry. If Voldemort and Lily had made a deal, and Voldemort didn't intend to keep the promise to Lily after he killed her, when he tried to AK her, it did kill her, but also attempted to kill him, because he didn't intend to keep the promise.

I think that it is possible that it was the curse on Lily that did the damage. I think the events could play out like this:

Voldemort makes a deal with Lily, her life instead of her sons. He agrees, although doesn't intend to keep the promise once Lily is dead.

He then casts AK at Lily, it does it's job in killing her, but then rebounds back on him. Since Voldemort is not fully human, it kills his body and heads for the nearest soul that it can take: enter Harry.

The curse hits Harry, but is nowhere near as strong as it should be, having been meant for one person, and having already killed one, and destroyed another. It hits Harry in the forehead and gives him a scar that links his soul with that who's body (but not soul) it destroyed: Voldemort
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Old 27-12-2004, 13:35   #9
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Re: Missing Shadow?

Wow
You know what - I LIKE IT

That is really quite something right ... would explain how the spell that cannot be blocked or rebounded did just that!
I can see your reasoning because of him going from first asking Lily to stand aside to her being killed by him ... and of course would explain the missing shadow ... it was all one curse and indeed it wasnt aimed at Harry but at Lily ....
What could be the significance of that - we are always lead to belive he killed Lily and then turned to kill Harry ... if this wasnt the case - could we assume he was actually going to Kill Harry?
Perhaps - just maybe - this could be another DiE moment ...
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'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

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'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
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Old 27-12-2004, 15:09   #10
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Re: Missing Shadow?

So are you saying that there isnt a Voldemort or Harry shadow because it never got that far in the first place?
I like the thought of the spell never working so it was never repeated
A deal with Lily would make her sound bad wouldnt it---Jkr would say who dare you

I always thought there would be a scar shaped shadow personally
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