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Storyline conspiracy theory "It's obvious what this means, there'll be loads of fog tonight"

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Old 12-04-2005, 00:51   #11
Fortescue
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Re: Eye Magic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kashlie
I quite like that one, Fortescue! Isn't it amazing how many different theories can come from one idea!!
I guess that a prophecy really could not have forseen the mother's sacrifice. It didn't say that the childs parents would die, but only that they would have escaped(?) the Dark Lord three times (is that right?). So really, the prophecy had to have been about a wizard who would be born with the power to defeat Voldemort, not given it. Yes, he marked him as his equal that night, by trying to kill Harry, but didn't know of the power Harry was born with (I hope this is what you meant, Fortescue!).

Harry's lovely green eyes, the destroyer of Voldemort. A Death Stare...

(BTW doesn't that theory suggest that Neville was also born with extraordinary powers?)
Yes, you got my point kashlie
I wasn't saying that Lily's sacrafice wasn't important to Harry's safety after that night - it has helped Dumbledore protect him for years, but I'm saying the power that actually lashed out at Voldemort came from Harry and Harry alone.

I can see the special effects in a movie. Little baby Harry sitting in his crib - Voldemort points and shoots and a blinding flash of light occurs - Harry's eyes glow as the spell hits him and mixes with his powers and shoots back out at Voldemort. His eyes blaze green, and shoot out his power with such force that his forehead bursts open with the excess power and Voldemort's done in - his body is blasted into oblivion - it vanishes and the remaining mist slinks off into the night. Cinematic gold, really!

I don't think Neville has the same power as he was not the one the prophecy referred to - Voldemort knew which boy the prophecy referred, and according to Dumbledore, he didn' t make a mistake - Voldemort simply marked Harry and gave him additional power - but Harry already had power of his own. If in fact Harry is the heir to Gryffindor, that might account for how powerful he is. JKR said his powers are growing stronger - I'd like to see what would have happened to Voldemort that night in the Ministry in OotP if his AK Curse would have actually hit Harry.
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Old 12-04-2005, 12:26   #12
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Re: Eye Magic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortescue
This is my first post here - and I am nervously rubbing my hands together in excitement. I don't even feel like I need to apologize in advance It might take a moment to get to my point, so bear with me

I have a theory of what happened between Harry and Voldemort that night, and it does involve Harry's eyes like Lily's, and his scar.

We know that the Avada Kedavra Curse kills it's victims without marking the body. The only harm done to the victim is they are dead. We can assume then that the curse simply stops their heart and nothing more.

In all instances throughout the books when the foe intends to do damage to his opponent, their wand is always pointed at the victimís chest. In PoA, Harry had his wand pointed at Sirius's chest as he lay on the floor of the Shrieking Shack. In GoF, Crouch/Moody had his wand pointed at Harry's chest. In OotP, Harry had his wand pointed at Dudley's chest in the alley before the Dementor attack, and Dolohov had his wand pointed at Hermione's chest in the Department of Mysteries. In all these instances, the aggressor intended to do harm by aiming their wand at the victims chest. If the aggressor aims the Avada Kedavra Curse at the victims chest, and it does in fact stop the victims heart leaving no marks on the body, as we saw in what happened to the Riddle's, then why did Harry get a scar?

Harry has magical powers the Dark Lord knows not - I don't think the prophecy was referring to his mother's sacrifice, but to a power solely within Harry - the power of which the prophecy speaks. I'm almost there, really

Harry has his mother's green eyes and a lightning bolt scar on his forehead. The night Voldemort attacked and killed Lily and James, then attacked Harry, why would he have aimed at Harry's head, and not his chest? It seems all the examples of a major conflict has shown us the chest is the target of choice.

My theory goes like this - Voldemort killed the Potter's and went after Harry, we know Harry didn't see his parents die. Voldemort aimed his wand at Harry's chest and said the incantation. The spell was cast, thus Harry's recollection of the green light he sees on occasion. But what if Voldemort did actually cast the spell at Harry's chest and not his forehead, and instead of killing Harry, his body absorbed the curse, and it mixed with the power Harry has that the Dark Lord knows not - and reflected it back at Voldemort, not only through his eyes, but the force was so intense it had to come out someplace, thus, creating the lighting bolt scar. Harry's heart was protected by his power, and possibly a charm or two cast by his mother prior to the attack. The curse did not actually rebound off Harry but came from inside Harry himself. Green light, green eyes. Maybe the green light Harry has remembered all these years had actually come from him?

As for the comment on Godric Gryffindor, there's a lot of speculation that Harry is the heir to Gryffindor - after reading the comment at the beginning of the thread it makes it seem very possible. This could be where he inherited his power and his adversity to Voldemort, the heir of Slytherin.

Ok, I'm done - just be kind -- remember, I'm new
Umm I am a little unclear

Are you saying Harry always had the scar - even before his brush with Voldemort?
If so - I am sure Dumbledore told Harry that Voldemort gave him that scar the night of the attack.
Also - I still really believe the power he knows not wasnt inherit in Harry - that is why such a big deal about old magic has been made and re-iterated - even by Voldemort himself in GoF ... I think that is what we call JKR setting the point in concreate.
Perhaps if you just elaborate on if you think he had the scar pre-attack that would help - cheers and nice theory!
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Old 12-04-2005, 13:16   #13
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Re: Eye Magic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaise
Umm I am a little unclear

Are you saying Harry always had the scar - even before his brush with Voldemort?
If so - I am sure Dumbledore told Harry that Voldemort gave him that scar the night of the attack.
Also - I still really believe the power he knows not wasnt inherit in Harry - that is why such a big deal about old magic has been made and re-iterated - even by Voldemort himself in GoF ... I think that is what we call JKR setting the point in concreate.
Perhaps if you just elaborate on if you think he had the scar pre-attack that would help - cheers and nice theory!
No, what I was trying to say it the scar occured when the power inside Harry, the power spoken of in the prophecy, mixed with the power of the AK Curse and built up inside Harry and shot out at Voldemort through Harry's green eyes, and there was so much of it that it also shot out through his forehead causing his scar. JKR said the shape of Harry's scar, the lightening bolt, was not important, but the scar itself is very important.

When Harry gets near Voldemort or he, Voldemort, has strong emotions his scar is described as 'bursting', like there is something that wants to come out of him. It would have to take very powerful magic to make Voldemort's entire body disappear. The curse is noted for not leaving any marks on the body, but it completely blew Voldemort's body out of existence. Whatever hit Voldemort was more than just a rebounded curse.
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Old 12-04-2005, 16:53   #14
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Re: Eye Magic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortescue
When Harry gets near Voldemort or he, Voldemort, has strong emotions his scar is described as 'bursting', like there is something that wants to come out of him. It would have to take very powerful magic to make Voldemort's entire body disappear. The curse is noted for not leaving any marks on the body, but it completely blew Voldemort's body out of existence. Whatever hit Voldemort was more than just a rebounded curse.

That is so true! The bursting of his scar, like a reminder of that night and what happened. Was this description a subtle hint as to how Harry survived?
But what I don't understand...how can a small baby survive that? Are we underestimating just how powerful Harry will become when he finds out the truth? (and if DiE, then how does he plan to defeat Harry? Power like Harry's seems more than DD has). I think Harry's eyes are very important in his survival that night.
Fortecue, you make a great point! Something more for us to think about!
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Old 07-05-2005, 08:45   #15
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Re: Eye Magic?

I don't necessarily think it means that Neville was born with an extraordinary power the Dark Lord knows not, but it is possible. Of course, if that power turns out to be love or something like that, then, yeah, Neville and a whole bunch of other people were born with that . . .

As for Fortescue's theory - I can get behind that one . . . there are so many references in the story to Harry not only feeling like his scar is burning, but that it is splitting open, right? Perhaps there is something to the idea that a power/curse escaped Harry and caused a part of him to split open . . .interesting.

A death stare is also really interesting . . .

I had another thought when reading Kingsley's post about the glasses again . . . do we know when Harry got glasses? Do we know when he started needing them? Because, there are two things that can come from that. The first - if he already needed them when he was a baby (as some kids do), perhaps the spell reflected off the glasses?? I don't know if that's possible or not, but it's an idea. If that were the case, though, I think they would have made sure Harry the baby had glasses on in the movie, right?

Second idea is that he didn't need glasses until the curse deflected off his eyes. Perhaps it has injured or changed his eyes somehow and then he needed glasses . . .

So, lots of thoughts in here to mull over. Sorry for the long post!
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Old 08-05-2005, 07:38   #16
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Re: Eye Magic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boing
As for Fortescue's theory - I can get behind that one . . . there are so many references in the story to Harry not only feeling like his scar is burning, but that it is splitting open, right? Perhaps there is something to the idea that a power/curse escaped Harry and caused a part of him to split open . . .interesting.

A death stare is also really interesting . . .
I also thought that it seems odd that Harry's scar is in the shape of a lightning bolt. JKR said the shape wasn't important, but it does go along with the theory of something trying to escape from Harry's head. If the scar was just due to being hit by the AK, why not just have a straight line or a circle? It seems that the jagged design of the scar could indicate a cracking open, like dry ground in the desert. It all makes sense with the bursting pain in his scar and the connection between his green eyes and the color of AK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boing
I had another thought when reading Kingsley's post about the glasses again . . . do we know when Harry got glasses? Do we know when he started needing them? Because, there are two things that can come from that. The first - if he already needed them when he was a baby (as some kids do), perhaps the spell reflected off the glasses?? I don't know if that's possible or not, but it's an idea. If that were the case, though, I think they would have made sure Harry the baby had glasses on in the movie, right?

Second idea is that he didn't need glasses until the curse deflected off his eyes. Perhaps it has injured or changed his eyes somehow and then he needed glasses . . .

So, lots of thoughts in here to mull over. Sorry for the long post!
The books don't mention a time that Harry got his glasses. If you look at the description of James, he too had glasses. It's possible that Harry's visual affliction was hereditary. JKR was very involved in the making of the movie SS. You're right Boingy - If baby Harry had glasses I'd think she'd have wanted that fact in the movie as well if it was important to the outcome of the story.
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Old 10-05-2005, 21:03   #17
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Re: Eye Magic?

OK, I see understand and respect your points of view here - but I think it is a little more fundemental really.
JKR had to come up with a way that Harry would be instantly recognisable to everyone he met - so she gives him a scar on his head - not easy to hide.
Then couple that with the shape - well it is quite magical in shape and essence - i think this just serves to matain that focus on him and his mark.
It is clear that it links both Harry and Voldemort - but I think this link was forged from the backfired spell - something they share and something that works as a bond.
I think there is a purpose but I think it isnt as fundemental as we may think - even JKR has played it down slightly by saying the shape isnt the most remarkable thing about it - that would suggest it was just a 'how can I make it stand out'
The fact Voldemort and Harry maintain the connection they do - and Harry feels it via his scar means there was a reason for the scar but the exact nature still eludes me.
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'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

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'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
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Old 11-05-2005, 04:23   #18
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Re: Eye Magic?

So are you saying that the only reason she put the scar on Harry was to make him recognizable - that it doesn't really serve any purpose other than the one we already know (that he feels Voldemort's emotions through it)?

I still don't think it's just from the reversed curse. I think we will find out something more - and it might not be central or crucial to the storyline - but it just feels like there has to be something to it.
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Old 11-05-2005, 14:49   #19
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Re: Eye Magic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaise
OK, I see understand and respect your points of view here - but I think it is a little more fundemental really.
JKR had to come up with a way that Harry would be instantly recognisable to everyone he met - so she gives him a scar on his head - not easy to hide.
Then couple that with the shape - well it is quite magical in shape and essence - i think this just serves to matain that focus on him and his mark.
It is clear that it links both Harry and Voldemort - but I think this link was forged from the backfired spell - something they share and something that works as a bond.
I think there is a purpose but I think it isnt as fundemental as we may think - even JKR has played it down slightly by saying the shape isnt the most remarkable thing about it - that would suggest it was just a 'how can I make it stand out'
The fact Voldemort and Harry maintain the connection they do - and Harry feels it via his scar means there was a reason for the scar but the exact nature still eludes me.
I think about this and remember a quote from SS/PS:

"Under a tuft of jet-black hair over his forehead they could see a curiously shaped cut, like a bolt of lightning.
'Is that where -?' whispered Professor McGonagall.
'Yes,' said Dumbledore. 'He'll have that scar forever.'
'Couldn't you do something about it, Dumbledore?'
'Even if I could, I wouldn't. Scars can come in handy. I have one myself above my left knee that is a perfect map of the London Underground.'" (pg. 15)

Why would Dumbledore hint that Harry's scar might come in Handy if it wasn't more then just a scar? Why would he leave it there if he had the power to remove it when it has caused Harry so many problems growing up, and drawn so much unwanted attention to him? If the scar wasn't intended to be of service to Harry, why wouldn't Dumbledore do away with it? It's possible that whatever might have burst out of it before might just do so again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boing
I still don't think it's just from the reversed curse. I think we will find out something more - and it might not be central or crucial to the storyline - but it just feels like there has to be something to it.
I agree Boingy - as the above quote states - the scar will come in handy again, and not because Harry can sense Voldemort's feelings through it. As much as Dumbledore says he cares about Harry he wouldn't leave the scar that seems to be the cause of his obvious discomfort and the sorce of his visions into Voldemort's eyes. The things Harry that sees have been nothing but dangerous except for seeing Mr. Weasley. It has to serve a bigger purpose then just to cause Harry more trouble, and I think Dumbledore knows its possible future worth to Harry.
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Old 11-05-2005, 20:39   #20
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Re: Eye Magic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boing
So are you saying that the only reason she put the scar on Harry was to make him recognizable - that it doesn't really serve any purpose other than the one we already know (that he feels Voldemort's emotions through it)?
How much easier was it for JKR to get Harry to interact with the other characters when some many of the introductions centered around his apparant scar?
You see what I am saying is that by making it so obvious JKR was able to promote Harry's interactions with others in a way that was so simple - pretty much anyone he meets knows he is Harry Potter because of the scar and on so many occasions we see this comprehension of the scar as being the emphasis of people interacting with Harry.
If he had it on his knee - well do you look at people's knee's when you meet them?
No - you look at them in the eye and face - this apparant scar makes it so much easier for people to begin convo with Harry - that is my point.
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'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

Dumbledore - HBP Pg536

'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
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