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HBP Character Discussion Any facts or details from HBP on new and old characters

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Old 17-10-2006, 12:57   #21
Lovegood54
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dumbledore make someone take an unbreakable vow?

i have my doubts about this one. I dont think Dumbledore would make anyone take an Unbreakable Vow. but then again, he might....
and as far as a binder? its simple. it would be a member of the Order of the Pheonix alright, but because everyone in the current Order are not sure of Snape's allegiance, that just means there are two other possibilities:
1) Harry hasn't met the Order of the Pheonix member who acted as the Binder, or (more likely)
2) The binder was a member of the original Order way back before Voldemort tried to kill Harry when he was a baby. (i mean think about it people, geez, i was a little upset at the lack of thought of some of the previous people saying that no one in the order could have been the binder because the Order members now arent sure what side Snape's on) here is what i mean: in OotP Moody shows Harry a picture of the original Order, and told Harry what happened to them all. i can't quote the book, but i can paraphrase: "See Harry, here Joe and he was killed by a Death Eater, theres Patti, she died as well, a giant stepped on her. oh, and look, theres Reliable Bob, most unfortunate thing happened to him: a Dementor sucked his soul out in his sleep when Voldemort found him. Oh, there are the Longbottoms, they went insane when Bellatrix, Barty Jr, and two other Death Eaters Crucioed them in search of where Voldemort was...." ok, the only one i didnt make up was the Longbottoms, but if u get my drift, most of the original Order members are either dead or better off that they had died (poor Longbottoms ) and it is obviously not the Weasley's ,they weren't members then if i remember correctly. i'm sorry if it sounds like i sound angry or anything, just needed to say that. ahhhhh...good have that off my chest
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Old 19-10-2006, 05:41   #22
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Re: Another Unbreakable Vow?

I agree with you Cat the Minnow, I think if a vow was made it was likely made between Snape and Dumbledore, but with Lily or James being the binder (James being my preference because of all the history between the two). However, I don't believe that if a vow had been made that it wasn't made so that Snape would protect Harry, but a vow was made to the effect that Snape would never turn his back on the good side again (ie return to Voldemort) and this is why Dumbledore trusted Snape immensly.
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Old 19-10-2006, 17:31   #23
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Lightbulb Re: Another Unbreakable Vow?

I agree, Dumbledore may have made mistakes, but I still cant see him having COMPLETE faith in Snape if he didnt have an iron-clad reason, and the only way you can rest assured that Snape would remain loyal to Dumbledore would be an unbreakable vow. I believe that Snape was put in a very awkward position on the night Narcissa and Bellatrix came calling at spinners end, and, I think he knew that if he didnt make the vow, word would have gotten around the other D.E.s, and eventually back to voldemort. When snape told Dumbledore what happened, dumbledore knew then his time was up, and thats why he decided to give Harry lessons.
However, as Remus Lupin and Harry both said " We all knew Snape was an occomplished Occumens ", but to fool Voldemort, logic dictates he would have to be even better at it than Voldemort. I cant see that when even as a child Riddle detested liars " TELL THE TRUTH! " were the young riddles words. " I must not tell lies " are Harrys.
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Old 19-10-2006, 19:45   #24
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Re: Another Unbreakable Vow?

That's so true. If Snape had made a vow with Voldemort it would have put him in a very awkward position, and maybe that's what he was thinking about when he had that "moments pause" before he agreed to taking Narcissa's vow. I think it's quite possible that Snape was better at occulemency than Voldemort. Do you think that Voldemort knew that Snape was a double agent? Or Voldemort knew that Snape was a double agent for Dumbledore?
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Old 21-10-2006, 20:34   #25
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Re: Another Unbreakable Vow?

Dumbledore and Voldemort share the same belief - Snape is a double agent to both of them ... but one of them has to be right ... I think that person is Dumbledore.
Voldemort never trusted Snape ... well now he will ... Dumbledore always trusted Snape and there is countless references to this throughout the series ... Dumbledore isnt a stupid, foolish man like people will think for him having this faith ... I still feel that this true faith was on more than just a word, it was a bond and seal between the two ...
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Old 22-10-2006, 08:06   #26
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Re: Another Unbreakable Vow?

I agree, Dumbledore's explanation of why he trusted Snape wasn't a really good reason for me. Sure, he felt bad for sending Voldemort to kill the Potters, but is that all there is to it? He hated James so in my opinion he probably wouldn't feel that bad about it. Unless there was another reason... Lily maybe? I know I wouldn't trust Snape if he said that he will turn his back on Voldemort just because he felt back about betraying the Potters, I'd want something more concrete, like a vow...
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Old 23-10-2006, 19:22   #27
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Re: Another Unbreakable Vow?

The massive implication in all of this points towards Lily as the reason Snape regretted what he did so much ... you are right there was no love lost between him and James and to be honest Snape was very much looking after himself - for him to feel so bad would have to be either because a child was going to die because of what he told Voldemort - or Lily ...
There is enough there to suggest he was very sorry for what he started - and yes, he was the starting point ...
I think the only logical reason he would undertake the unbreakable vow would be to try and protect the victims of what he started ...
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'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

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'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
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Old 04-02-2007, 09:11   #28
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Re: Another Unbreakable Vow?

I'm still debating this with myself at the moment so all I can add is that Lily wasnt supposta die rememeber? LV asked her to step aside so he could kill Harry and she wouldnt so he killed her too. So if snape made a vow either with James, Lily or Dumbledore to keep Harry safe they are all dead now so that goes back to does that kind of magic still work after death? We know that when DD froze Harry at the end, Harry knew he was dead because his jinx was lifted. So I still dont know it seems to me that Lily wasnt ment to be harmed and still was being that that was the only way that LV could kill Harry was through his mom. Still the vow could be with James/Snape to protect Harry OR Lily because James protected Snape. Lily/Snape either for love or something unknown to protect Harry. Dumbledore/Snape because of Snape's betrayal of the Potters, to protect Harry Or Lily. If this is to off topic it can be moved
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Last edited by Jenelle; 04-02-2007 at 09:13.. Reason: Forgot something
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