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HBP Character Discussion Any facts or details from HBP on new and old characters

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Old 07-04-2006, 13:51   #21
HeleneB
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Re: Dumbledore-Mighty Wizard or Major Wuss?

I think DD had probably been searching for the cave for longer than that school year--perhaps after Harry destroyed the diary.
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Old 08-04-2006, 02:00   #22
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Re: Dumbledore-Mighty Wizard or Major Wuss?

I'm not sure if Dumbledore had made that trip to the cave before-or if someone specifically told him exactly where it was and exactly what to do. Obviously it had to be one of these-there is no way anyone could get lucky and randomly find that entrance! Not even Dumbledore w/all his power, unless there is some magical secret cave detector that we are unaware of . I'm inclined to believe someone told him-now would that be Snape or Regulus? Don't know, but much to ponder...Are there indications that Snape knew exactly what that potion was and also knew how to counter-act it? Since Dumbledore kept insisting that Harry get Snape- I think there are. There's also the possibility that someone set Dumbledore up isn't there?
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Old 08-04-2006, 11:05   #23
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Re: Dumbledore-Mighty Wizard or Major Wuss?

Well Dumbledore was in possession of the memory that he showed Harry from the orphanage - as such he would have known the story of young Riddle and his terrorising the 2 other orphans - it wouldn't surprise me if Dumbledore went looking for that place even before he thought of Horcruxes - knowing the Gaunt/Riddle past of living in grandeur and that Riddle was fond of collecting and also using things he could relate to - I'm sure Dumbledore would have looked for that location just on the basis of the facts he uncovered to that point.
I am of the opinion Dumbledore had been there before ... and I think he used the episode as a training session for Harry ... whether the outcome was planned or not - I think he wasn't about to take Harry to somewhere and risk his life - he was sure enough that Harry would be ok ... I mean we know how much Dumbledore values Harry's life and well being!
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'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
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Old 10-04-2006, 09:00   #24
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Re: Dumbledore-Mighty Wizard or Major Wuss?

I absolutely agree, Alz. I think DD was looking for the horcruxes since that night in GH. There must have been something that made him think LV had not been killed and was still out there. DD commented about having sources tell him that LV was in Bulgaria (or wherever)--who are they and how did they know? Did LV not leave a dead body when his AK backfired?

And that whole cave scene is interesting anyway. I find gumshoe's switch theory to be intriguing--perhaps it wasn't even DD in the cave with Harry. The Switching spell is one of the spells that's mentioned in SS/PS that we haven't seen used yet in the series--and I think it's referred to again in OotP or HBP (a reminder in case we'd forgotten there is such a spell). If it wasn't used for the cave trip, I think we will see it in Book 7.

And the potion--the most glaring point in that trip was drinking a potion DD knew was intended to incapacitate the drinker (at least!). What does that show Harry in his training to be a horcrux hunter? He won't have a Snape to run to for help (unless there's more to Sluggy than meets the eye--and he already knows about the horcruxes).
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Old 10-04-2006, 11:41   #25
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Re: Dumbledore-Mighty Wizard or Major Wuss?

Actually that last part - I can see it!
Imagine Harry having to be healed by Snape - I mean he hates the guy and Snape has been trying to help Harry over his time - I think that would make an excellent addition to the books and maybe help Harry overcome his all out hatred for Snape when his life rests in his hands!
Heck you never know - maybe even Dumbledore has set this up to be so - because I am still finding it hard for a situation when those two will meet and Harry wont just react and lash out rather than hearing Snape out!

Dumbledore dying that night had to serve the greatest purpose of the events in order for him to permit and accept it - that shows him to be stronger than many people and on the same level as Lily on sacrifice for Harry over their own existence ... and on that occasion it left Harry some powerful magic - given Dumbledore gave Harry some protections - perhaps his life was the last thing he could offer which sealed another magic charm in Harry?
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'It's all my fault, all my fault'
'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

Dumbledore - HBP Pg536

'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
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Old 10-04-2006, 12:19   #26
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Re: Dumbledore-Mighty Wizard or Major Wuss?

Wouldn't that be awesome if DD could offer some protection to Harry because of his death?

I am thinking Snape will have to help Harry somehow. Harry will have to trust him ni order to get the job done. I am almost certain of it.
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Old 11-04-2006, 11:44   #27
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Re: Dumbledore-Mighty Wizard or Major Wuss?

The starting and subject of this thread is a good observation in so much as the great and powerful Dumbledore seemed to limp out - I say this because it does seem like once again material to show bigger plans were afoot when Dumbledore lay down his life on that tower.
Once again I cant help but feel it was a well executed plan in so much of the events leading up to the death and of course the positioning of the people for the final curtain - having Harry witness it all but not being able to act to Snape being seen to kill Dumbledore by the death eaters ... I think this showed greater than anything Dumbledore's power that even in the event of his demise he can still lead the Order and direct events to his own ends ...
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'It's all my fault, all my fault'
'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

Dumbledore - HBP Pg536

'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
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Old 11-04-2006, 12:56   #28
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Re: Dumbledore-Mighty Wizard or Major Wuss?

Good Point Alz.

I am pretty sure he was aware of his impending death. It may not have happened on the tower like it did, but I am certain he had a plan in place on the off chance something unexpected happened. I am certain he didn't want Draco to be a killer (nor would he have wanted his death on Harrys conscience because he made him force feed him the poison in the basin)
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Old 12-04-2006, 11:14   #29
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Re: Dumbledore-Mighty Wizard or Major Wuss?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HelenB
My question is: who was that guy on the tower? What happened to the Dumbledore we've been reading about for 5+ books? While I do think it could have been someone else on the tower, I also believe it could have been DD. What happened to that mighty wizard?
I think I am ready to say what we saw was a resigned Dumbledore that knew it was checkmate ...
He knew that the only way to keep things on track was to lay down his life - I am sure Snape discussed Voldemort's plan with Dumbledore back in the summer the year before - Dumbledore had plenty of time to set things in order - he may have even tried to tweak the circumstances - but I think by the time he made it to the tower and the DE's were inside the school - he had to do the right thing and be killed - by doing so he kept Draco alive and bought Snape more precious inside time with Voldemort ...
I dont think what happens diminishes his character and makes him any less that what he ever was - he knew when there was a time to stand and fight but also when to lay down and accept fate ... he had a choice between what was right and what was easy and he did what was right!
__________________
'It's all my fault, all my fault'
'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

Dumbledore - HBP Pg536

'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
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Old 23-08-2006, 12:33   #30
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Re: Dumbledore-Mighty Wizard or Major Wuss?

I could not find a place to ask this question. So I just found a discussion about DD. Does anyone else see a connection between the fact that DD has a scar of the London Underground on his leg (aka a map) and that The MoM and the Gringotts Vaults are all underground.
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