Left Page Border
Makes the header linkable

Go Back   The Final Horcrux > Discussions on Half-Blood Prince > HBP Character Discussion

HBP Character Discussion Any facts or details from HBP on new and old characters

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 4.00 average. Display Modes
Old 01-10-2006, 02:58   #11
Alz
Head Unspeakable
 
Alz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast US, originally UK!!
Age: 44
Posts: 7,108
Rep Power: 10Alz is on a distinguished road

Re: Another Unbreakable Vow?

I don't think Dumbledore forced Snape to do it - I think the exact opposite in and in fact Snape was busting to do it ... he wanted to make amends for the sequence he set in order ...
I think Aberforth would be a good 'bonder' - quiet enough not to talk about it but trusted enough to ensure it never got out - not to mention Aberforth was fully aware of the situation being he was the one that found Snape eavesdropping!
__________________
'It's all my fault, all my fault'
'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

Dumbledore - HBP Pg536

'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
Alz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2006, 07:12   #12
peanutgal1
TFH Graduate
 
peanutgal1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 43
Rep Power: 0peanutgal1 is on a distinguished road

Re: Another Unbreakable Vow?

The problem I have with the unbreakable vow is that Harry has always had a protector: his mother (in PS/SS), his father (in PoA), DD (in CoS and HBP), Sirius (GoF and OOtP). At the end of HBP, he says that from the time that he was one, he should have realized that the is alone. With the death of DD, Harry is finally alone and will now be able to grow into a man. It's no coincidence that he's now turning 17. In the final book, he Hermione and Ron, two other recent adults to the magical world will battle against Voldemort and his DEs. I don't think that Rowling would take the easy way out by having Snape, the insider with Voldemort, owe some duty to Harry by way of a promise.
Also, if Aberforth turns out to be the binder, Harry will have someone, akin to DD in whom he can trust and on whom he may grow to depend. Also, Aberforth would be able to tell Harry all of the things in which DD has confided. I think that Harry, as a grown wizard will need no one other than Hermione and Ron.

I think that the reason DD trusted Snape is that once he received confirmation that Voldemort was going to kill the Potters, people he knew, he went to DD to recant and try to save them. I think that this was out of love for Lily.

Also, even if Snape insisted on taking an unbreakable vow, I still think that DD's nature to see the good in all people would prevent him from allowing Snape to take such a vow.
peanutgal1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2006, 11:10   #13
Alz
Head Unspeakable
 
Alz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast US, originally UK!!
Age: 44
Posts: 7,108
Rep Power: 10Alz is on a distinguished road

Re: Another Unbreakable Vow?

I think it is important to realise Harry doesn't see Snape as a protector - in fact he see's him the exact opposite and to the degree on more than one occasion he felt Snape was trying to lead to his downfall ... that is why this is so perfect!
I mean, I think we can all agree of see an element of Snape protecting Harry - I still believe the biggest indicator for this came from PoA film and the scene towards the end when Lupin turns ... but all the same Snape is equal or maybe even worse than Voldemort in Harry's mind ...
I think Snape saw this as an act of redemption for what he started and indeed if we are right and he harboured feelings for Lily - he would have been committed to right the wrongs ... more so when he found out Lily had been killed!
__________________
'It's all my fault, all my fault'
'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

Dumbledore - HBP Pg536

'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
Alz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2006, 08:13   #14
cagedcactus
Sherbet Lemon
 
cagedcactus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Head Quarters of "PotterWatch"
Age: 42
Posts: 453
Rep Power: 13cagedcactus is on a distinguished road

Re: Another Unbreakable Vow?

Well, I am kind of hoping that Snape took the VOW.
Because if you look at the begining. The whole mess started because Snape mouthed off the prophecy to Voldemort.
Snape is basically one of the reasons why Potters are dead.
I think taking something like that VOW would somewhat undo the mistake he made.
These all above, if he really isnt on dark side. I believe he isnt.
__________________
"In thy Face, I see the map of honor, truth and loyalty."
-Helga Hufflepuff the founder of House Hufflepuff

"Let me tell you the secret that had led me to my goal. My strength lies, solely in my tenacity."
-Salazar Slytherin the founder of house Slytherin

"Courage and perseverance have a magical talisman, before which all difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish into air."
-Godric Gryffindor the founder of house Gryffindor

"We have a hunger of the mind which asks for knowledge all around us. And the more we gain, the more is our desire."
-Rowena Ravenclaw the founder of house Ravenclaw
cagedcactus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2006, 10:42   #15
peanutgal1
TFH Graduate
 
peanutgal1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 43
Rep Power: 0peanutgal1 is on a distinguished road

Re: Another Unbreakable Vow?

I realize that the Snape vow theory has some support, (1) the argument between Snape and DD regarding the extent of Snape's duties to the Order and (2) DD's pleading when he sees Snape at the top of the tower. However, I think its just too far afield from DD's character to make Snape promise to safeguard Harry. See, if you break it, you die. I don't think that, even if offered by Snape as a guarantee, DD would want him to take it.
Maybe, just maybe, there is some support for another unbreakable vow only after the one with Narcissa.
I really hate to draw this parallel, but in the Matrix (I know, I know), Morpheus believed that Neo was going to be the savior such that he was willing to sacrifice himself. Neo didn't share in that belief and at great risk, he saved Morpheus. Morpheus represented the best chance for humankind.
We know that DD thinks that Harry will be the savior (your blood is more valuable than mine). But maybe for someone like Snape (and probably Harry and the rest), DD represents the best chance at ridding the world of Voldemort. The vow would not have had anything to do with protecting Harry, but rather, following the orders of DD even if it meant killing him. That could be the source of the argument Hagrid overheard and the pleading on the tower. That could explain why Snape was disgusted when he saw DD on the tower. He knew that he was now going to be forced to kill the last, best hope against Voldemort. It could also explain, what I view as teaching Harry, when Snape begins to taunt Harry about his inability to use occlumency and nonverbal spells. In other words, how can Harry defeat LV, when he cannot even stop Snape and Malfoy from running away?
(I realize that I've argued myself into a circle).
peanutgal1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2006, 08:41   #16
yarvelling
TFH Graduate
 
yarvelling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: East Anglia, UK
Age: 57
Posts: 113
Rep Power: 14yarvelling is on a distinguished road

Re: Another Unbreakable Vow?

I like the theory that Snape took an unbreakable vow to protect Harry, and perhaps to serve the Order; as the series has matured, so too have some of the ideas and concepts set-up in the earlier books...this could be the actual 'debt' (as it was earlier described) that Snape owed to Harry; not so much because James had saved Snapes' life from the werewolf/Lupin, but because Snape had been instrumental in causing the deaths of James and Lilly.
If Snape made such a vow with Dumbledore, then yes, DD's brother may well have been the binder, or it could have been Hagrid; he's always expressed disbelief that Snape could be truly bad! And of course, DD had always trusted Hagrid; trusted him with some of the most important 'secrets' going on at Hogwarts and beyond!!
One thing that does cause a shadow of doubt though is the question "would the vow still be binding in the event of the death of the one to whom the vow had been made?" We've seen that certain spells and enchantments are broken upon the death of the caster; could an unbreakable vow be broken only by death? If this is so, then Snape is free to persue whatever path he chooses, with no further obligations to Harry or the Order
__________________
Cats were once worshipped as Gods.....they have never forgotten this!
yarvelling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2006, 10:46   #17
Alz
Head Unspeakable
 
Alz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast US, originally UK!!
Age: 44
Posts: 7,108
Rep Power: 10Alz is on a distinguished road

Re: Another Unbreakable Vow?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yarvelling View Post
One thing that does cause a shadow of doubt though is the question "would the vow still be binding in the event of the death of the one to whom the vow had been made?" We've seen that certain spells and enchantments are broken upon the death of the caster; could an unbreakable vow be broken only by death? If this is so, then Snape is free to persue whatever path he chooses, with no further obligations to Harry or the Order
Interesting thought yarvelling - not sure I can add anything of concrete to the answer ... what I can say is if the vow has broken - what forced Snape into doing it still exists and he will still try to protect and help Harry regardless if there was a bind or not - he still feels he is as much to blame as what Wormtail is ... and he wants to make amends!

I think it would represent a total faith in Dumbledore with Snape - one that people cant see - I mean Voldemort knows Harry is protected by Dumbledore - as such Dumbledore needed to be removed from the picture - but what is worse is the person he is placing more and more faith in, who is inside the circle - is in fact the real protection for Harry!
__________________
'It's all my fault, all my fault'
'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

Dumbledore - HBP Pg536

'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
Alz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2006, 00:22   #18
yarvelling
TFH Graduate
 
yarvelling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: East Anglia, UK
Age: 57
Posts: 113
Rep Power: 14yarvelling is on a distinguished road

Re: Another Unbreakable Vow?

Yes, I agree, however, thinking further, Dumbledore hasn't been 'completely' removed from the picture, has he? His portrait now takes pride of place in his office! Perhaps then the vow, if one had been made twixt DD and Snape, would not possibly be broken by death after-all....we know that the portaits are meant to be shades of the original person, but they have always been written as much more active, in that they can perform tasks upon request, move from place to place (provided they have a second frame), and DD frequently was heard to have been in council with the former heads of Hogwarts; this leads me firmly believe that DD with still have a large and influencial part in the upcoming story, and certainly could ensure that the 'possible' unbreakable vow was still binding.
__________________
Cats were once worshipped as Gods.....they have never forgotten this!
yarvelling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2006, 20:24   #19
keeron_man_boy
Accio Deathly Hallows!!
 
keeron_man_boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mount Gambier (from Melbourne though)
Age: 30
Posts: 123
Rep Power: 13keeron_man_boy is on a distinguished road

Re: Another Unbreakable Vow?

i think this may be some help to this theory


i found this little mp3 on an interview with JKR about snape...

she talks bout his lovelife that something big is gonna happen in book 7

http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/snape.html
(goto relationships and click the link)
__________________
Snape for PM!! bugger off Howard
keeron_man_boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-10-2006, 15:33   #20
Alz
Head Unspeakable
 
Alz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast US, originally UK!!
Age: 44
Posts: 7,108
Rep Power: 10Alz is on a distinguished road

Re: Another Unbreakable Vow?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yarvelling View Post
Yes, I agree, however, thinking further, Dumbledore hasn't been 'completely' removed from the picture, has he? His portrait now takes pride of place in his office! Perhaps then the vow, if one had been made twixt DD and Snape, would not possibly be broken by death after-all....we know that the portaits are meant to be shades of the original person, but they have always been written as much more active, in that they can perform tasks upon request, move from place to place (provided they have a second frame), and DD frequently was heard to have been in council with the former heads of Hogwarts; this leads me firmly believe that DD with still have a large and influencial part in the upcoming story, and certainly could ensure that the 'possible' unbreakable vow was still binding.
Interesting - I think you could be right - I wonder if Snape will ever get to go to that study and make amends for what he was asked to do - I mean killing Dumbledore at his request (as many of us believe) would still leave Snape in turmoil and if he was able to talk to Dumbledore - even be it a shadow - will help him deal with what he had to do - and as you stated could re-affirm that unbreakable vow because in essence they are still tied be it by an enchanted piece of parchment that still embodies Dumbledore and shadows of his essence ...
__________________
'It's all my fault, all my fault'
'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

Dumbledore - HBP Pg536

'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
Alz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


  Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:14.
Style Designed by Epic Designz
 
 

Harry Potter & all associated names and images remain the property of J.K Rowling, Bloomsbury Publishers UK and AOL Time Warner.All other logos and trademarks in this site are property of their respective owner. The comments are property of their posters, all the rest 2005 by The Final Horcrux.
You are not permitted to hotlink/hyperlink any images from the site.
Please respect the intellectual rights of The Final Horcrux. You must contact the webmaster/administrator of The Final Horcrux if you wish to take any part of the site and contents for reproduction on another site, forum, or other web presence. Any site that plagiarises The Final Horcrux will be subject to a complaint being registered against them.
 

Right Page Border