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Discussions on Chamber of Secrets "In my fifth year, The Chamber of Secrets was opened ..."

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Old 07-05-2005, 19:47   #1
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Tom Riddle's Motivation

After watching the TV airing of CoS tonight, I had some questions and went back to the book for answers - I never like to base posts on the movies as they can change things around too much.

So, in both the movie and the book, when Harry enters Tom Riddle's memories in the diary, he follows him to Dippet's (Hogwarts Headmaster) office where Dippet tells Tom that under the current circumstances, they cannot allow him to stay at Hogwarts over the holidays and that he would be safer at the Muggle orphanage.

Tom says, "Sir - if the person was caught - if it all stopped . . . "

It seems his only motivation for not letting the basilisk out anymore was so that he wouldn't have to go back to the orphanage.

He is obviously embarrassed about his heritage by his reddened face when Dippet asks about his parents and he has to say he has a Muggle father. This leads me to believe that at this point, he was somewhat normal. He simply didn't want to have to go back to the orphanage, so he stopped letting the basilisk out in the hopes that he would be allowed to stay at Hogwarts.

So, he wasn't completely bad to start off. JKR has already told us that he has never loved anyone, so we know he wasn't completely normal, but he seems to have normal teenage concerns (fitting in, etc.).

Do you guys think his motivation for framing Hagrid was to stop the worry over the basilisk to stay on at Hogwarts and just be normal or do you think it was to stay on at Hogwarts and further explore the Chamber/work on his hostile world takeover . . .?

If it was to just be normal, was this a critical point for Tom Riddle? Would he have turned out differently if they had let him stay at Hogwarts that summer? Or was he just the ruthless killer from the start?
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Old 08-05-2005, 04:10   #2
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Re: Tom Riddle's Motivation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boing
So, in both the movie and the book, when Harry enters Tom Riddle's memories in the diary, he follows him to Dippet's (Hogwarts Headmaster) office where Dippet tells Tom that under the current circumstances, they cannot allow him to stay at Hogwarts over the holidays and that he would be safer at the Muggle orphanage.
Actually, in the movie it was a much younger Dumbledore who Riddle met on the stairs - he even said Dumbledore's name, but in the book it was the headmaster's office and Dippet behind the desk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boing
Tom says, "Sir - if the person was caught - if it all stopped . . . "

It seems his only motivation for not letting the basilisk out anymore was so that he wouldn't have to go back to the orphanage.

He is obviously embarrassed about his heritage by his reddened face when Dippet asks about his parents and he has to say he has a Muggle father. This leads me to believe that at this point, he was somewhat normal. He simply didn't want to have to go back to the orphanage, so he stopped letting the basilisk out in the hopes that he would be allowed to stay at Hogwarts.

So, he wasn't completely bad to start off. JKR has already told us that he has never loved anyone, so we know he wasn't completely normal, but he seems to have normal teenage concerns (fitting in, etc.).

Do you guys think his motivation for framing Hagrid was to stop the worry over the basilisk to stay on at Hogwarts and just be normal or do you think it was to stay on at Hogwarts and further explore the Chamber/work on his hostile world takeover . . .?

If it was to just be normal, was this a critical point for Tom Riddle? Would he have turned out differently if they had let him stay at Hogwarts that summer? Or was he just the ruthless killer from the start?
Good question Boing

I think Riddle wanted to stay where he had some type of power because in the Muggle orphanage he was powerless. At Hogwarts he already had followers; other Slytherins already were calling him Lord Voldemort - he didn't want that to end. He didn't care about being normal - his actions simply showed that he didn't want to be separated from Hogwarts and the only people who so far knew how powerful and evil he really was. I don't think he really cared that he could no longer open the chamber - it was more important to Tom to continue building his persona as Lord Voldemort then to allow the basilisk to continue killing Mudbloods.
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Old 08-05-2005, 04:49   #3
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Re: Tom Riddle's Motivation

I have to agree. He could cause more damage outside Hogwarts as Lord Voldemort than inside Hogwarts where if discovered he could be stopped.
I think his ultimate goal once gaining power outside, would be to converge on Hogwarts with the Death Eaters and release the Basilisk. (Does the real Voldemort know the basilisk is dead?)
It was important that not only the attacks stop, but the attention turned to believe the person responsible was gone. If someone wasn't caught, even if the attacks stopped, the school would be closed.
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Old 08-05-2005, 11:05   #4
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Re: Tom Riddle's Motivation

Quote:
Originally Posted by kashlie
I have to agree. He could cause more damage outside Hogwarts as Lord Voldemort than inside Hogwarts where if discovered he could be stopped.
I think his ultimate goal once gaining power outside, would be to converge on Hogwarts with the Death Eaters and release the Basilisk. (Does the real Voldemort know the basilisk is dead?)
It was important that not only the attacks stop, but the attention turned to believe the person responsible was gone. If someone wasn't caught, even if the attacks stopped, the school would be closed.
I agree Kash...and as for Voldemort knowing the Basilisk was killed...I would say yes, at least I'm shure by book 4 or 5 he would have known, either by report from Lucious, Snape, or Crouch Jr. I'm sure any of them would have informed him, not because of concern for the basilisk, but to relate what Harry had done. Now, just curious what Voldemort thought about that. Did it upset him to know the basilisk was dead?
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Old 10-05-2005, 21:28   #5
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Re: Tom Riddle's Motivation

I think as much as Riddle may have had motivations and aspirations - he was still fearful of having to go back to the orphanage.
But look at it this way - if he did - he would have been removed from Hogwarts and the chamber - as such his work would have to stop again!
You can look at his actions in many ways - from a genuine dislike/fear of being back in the orphanage all the way to him being scared/annoyed/upset of being removed from the Chamber - especially as it seem he was just realising what it was all about.
I think his motivations in asking the question stemed from that fact he was finally home and needed to work some more on what the Chamber was and what secrets it held - he was in a place only a true decendant of Salazar could access and probably for one felt at home and like he was finally finding himself.
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Old 11-05-2005, 04:25   #6
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Re: Tom Riddle's Motivation

I like the idea that he wanted to stick around and have free reign of the Chamber while there were fewer people around to notice what he was up to. If he knows or suspects there are more secrets to the Chamber other than the basilisk, then he just might try to come back into Hogwarts this time around and try to use whatever they are.
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Old 13-05-2005, 19:36   #7
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Re: Tom Riddle's Motivation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boing
He is obviously embarrassed about his heritage by his reddened face when Dippet asks about his parents and he has to say he has a Muggle father. This leads me to believe that at this point, he was somewhat normal. He simply didn't want to have to go back to the orphanage, so he stopped letting the basilisk out in the hopes that he would be allowed to stay at Hogwarts.
Tom was definitely embarrassed about not being a pureblood. He deceived his followers into believing he was a pureblood as was shown by Bellatrix's admonishing Harry in the Department of Mysteries for even suggesting that Voldemort was part Muggle. Since she was one of his closest, most loyal followers, it seems that he was indeed living a lie. Voldemort runs an organization of evil that to our knowledge only allows purebloods into it's fold, yet his nearest and dearest followers have now been enlightened with the realization that Voldemort might not be who he says he is - thanks to Harry Potter. I wonder if this could possibly cause any dissention in the ranks?
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Old 14-05-2005, 04:04   #8
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Re: Tom Riddle's Motivation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortescue
Tom was definitely embarrassed about not being a pureblood. He deceived his followers [...], it seems that he was indeed living a lie. Voldemort runs an organization of evil that to our knowledge only allows purebloods into it's fold, [...]
Voldemort seems to follow a familiar pattern: Put up strict rules, but don't follow them yourself ... Sounds somehow reminiscent of certain fascist leaders in Germany some decades ago: The ideal German having to be tall, strong, blond and blue-eyed (ever seen photographs of Hitler and Goebbels? LOL).
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Old 14-05-2005, 06:28   #9
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Re: Tom Riddle's Motivation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortescue
yet his nearest and dearest followers have now been enlightened with the realization that Voldemort might not be who he says he is - thanks to Harry Potter. I wonder if this could possibly cause any dissention in the ranks?

Now that is a very good question!!! We could only hope as much! But I think that though there may be a very few disgruntled DE's, Voldemort will point out that he hates his Muggle Father, despises the blood in his veins (if there really is anymore ) but that that very thing is why he now seeks to destoy the rest. But, yes. . . wouldn't it be nice to have a little civil war amoungst the DE's! You know, as I think about this. . . this could be what holds Voldemort back in HBP. Saving the war for book 7. Otherwise I have been having trouble figuring out why Voldemort wouldn't just start the war now since everyone now knows he is back. But then. . .with everyone knowing he is back now. . . he is likely to be getting new volunteers too. . . But I do love the idea of dissention in the Ranks Fort!!!
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Old 16-05-2005, 15:54   #10
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Re: Tom Riddle's Motivation

The DEs who were at Voldemort's "rebirthing party" (as he called it) know about his father - he tells Harry he is standing upon the remains of his father who was a Muggle and a fool. So, if they were going to leave him based on that - it seems they would have done so already instead of sticking with him through OotP.
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