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Discussions on general Septology "The One with the Power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches ... "

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Old 25-05-2007, 11:33   #11
Mr_Bandman
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Re: DIATSSISE Theory

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arwan View Post
This was very interesting to read and just might be the correct answer. The only thing that stands out in my mind after reading this, is if Dumbledore did impersonate Snape why would he just use wormtail why not go and see Voldemort himself!
He may have---we don't actually know----he may have gone to V to ask to "borrow" Wormtail.

Then again, it may have been too risky to appear in front of V----DD may have feared he would be recognized, either through legilimency or just his mannerisms and speech patterns. Snape was not at Spinners End for no reason at all----he was likely there because that's where V wanted him, for some reason----once there he could have switched places w/ DD----Wormtail is probably not an accomplished enough legilimens or occlumen to have figured out the hoax.

Last edited by Mr_Bandman; 26-05-2007 at 07:39.. Reason: spelling error
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Old 26-05-2007, 05:32   #12
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Question Re: DIATSSISE Theory

Have been rereading OOTP and came across this ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Potter, OOTP, p504, Chapter 26: Seen and Unforeseen
'What happened on your date with Cho? How come you were back so early?'
'Er ... well, it was ...' said Harry, pulling a dish of rhubarb crumble towards him and helping himself to seconds, 'a complete fiasco, now you mention it.'
Seems this guy didnt fully do the research before he said that Dumbledore was the only person to use the word.
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Ollivander PS/SS p65

"To the Dark Lord I know I will be dead long before you read this but I want you to know that it was I who discovered your secret. I have stolen the real Horcrux and intend to destroy it as soon as I can. I face death in the hope that when you meet your match you will be mortal once more. R.A.B."
R.A.B - HBP p569



Last edited by notposs; 26-05-2007 at 05:58..
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Old 26-05-2007, 07:16   #13
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Re: DIATSSISE Theory

In addition, the evidence about the way Snape is introduced - without his name and only by description at first - is not really evidence that this is DD not Snape. This is a literary device that JKR uses throughout all 6 books. In fact, earlier in the Spinners chapter, she uses it when she is introducing Narcissa and Bellatrix. She actually says, "slim hooded figure" for narcissa and "another hooded figure" for Bellatrix before she lets us know who these hooded figures are. Again on page 44, DD is introduced picking Harry up and JKR says, "A tall figure in a llong billowing cloak...." I could go back in all the books, she uses the device so often. Paintball uses this as evidence that it could be DD as JKR doesn't give his name right away.

Thanks, Notposs, for showing us about 'fiasco'. It does debunk the theory a bit although it was fun to entertain for a while.
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Old 26-05-2007, 07:54   #14
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Re: DIATSSISE Theory

You know, I am so desperate for this silly book to hit the shelves that I will grab at any straw. If an argument is made in a convincing and articulate manner, I will go for it at this point. I feel ridiculous, but this is the point to which this woman has brought me. I have read Ayn Rand & Jack Kerouac, Mark Twain & John Steinbeck & Ernest Hemingway & F. Scott Fitzgerald, Sherwood Anderson & James Thurber----all kinds of things that are surely considered more "serious" literature----and I have NEVER, ever been this caught up in anything before. I didn't read any of the Potter books until well after GOF had been published, and I only did so because my students seemed to not be able to get enough of them. Now I find myself checking a couple of different websites daily, hungrily seeking the next bit of wild speculation. I was 11 years old when Star Wars came out. Maybe the fact that the internet was still 20 years from being a household word that kept me from going overboard. I love it and at the same time am disgusted with myself. They're only books, right? Right.....
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Old 26-05-2007, 10:08   #15
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Re: DIATSSISE Theory

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Bandman
They're only books, right? Right.....
You know . . . my hubby keeps telling me that too . . . and I didn't get my start till after OotP when a friend gave my kids PoA for Christmas, we decided to start with the two movies that were out, then I read PoA to them, then GoF . . . waited a while found the first two books and read them to the kids (I was waiting for OotP to come out in paperback, but I gave up waiting and bought the hardback!) then continued all the way through, found this website and really got into the discussions, and was in line with everyone else eagerly anticipating HBP and speculating on what it would bring. yeah . . . only books . . .
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Old 26-05-2007, 11:38   #16
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Re: DIATSSISE Theory

Mr. B, I can so relate. This woman has me all tied up in knots. I have been in it since the beginning - I had little kids and read them aloud as each book made its appearance. I felt good about it as an English prof. got me started. Now, I check websites daily, endlessly discuss with my kids and suffer the ridicule of my husband who was having some colleagues over and gently asked me if I wanted to put "those books away." As the wife of an academic, my obsession with HP may be considered shameful. We are regulars of Camus and Tolstoy and are usually found engaging in discussion around world changing historical moments. And, yet, here I am.... I am not ashamed - I love it and am grateful to all of you for continuously posting and engaging with me!
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Old 26-05-2007, 12:01   #17
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Re: DIATSSISE Theory

OK, I did a little research on both key words mentioned in DIATSSISE, “Forgive me” and “Fiasco” As paintball claims are only used by Dumbledore with the exception of Snape in Spinners End. A search of all books provided the following.

“Forgive me”

SS
Dumbledore p 240*

Cos
None

PoA
Trelawney p 85*
Sirius p 313

GoF
Wormtail p 7*
Dumbledore p 113
Avery p 418
Fudge p 456*

OotP
None

HBP
Snape p 39*
Dumbledore p 97
Dumbledore p 249*
Dumbledore p 564*
Dumbledore p 639*
Dumbledore p 704*
Dumbledore p 742*
Dumbledore p 743*

The references marked with * indicate the phrase being used prior to something about to be said. Others refer to someone asking forgiveness for a prior offense. Oddly enough Dumbledore only uses the phrase twice before HBP where he uses it frequently. It could be argued I suppose that DD may have been impersonating Fudge, Wormtail, and Trelawney on those occasions . . . if you can do it once why not whenever you please right? . . . But Dumbledore was in the room with Fudge in GoF, it would seem to be rather difficult to impersonate someone in the room with you.


“Fiasco”

SS
None

CoS
Narration p 24

PoA
None

GoF
Percy p 269

OotP
Harry p 279
Narration p 602

HBP
Snape p 39
Dumbledore p 101
Harry p 531
Dumbledore p 635

Well, this part of the theory seems completely unsupported. It is used twice by the narration, twice by Harry, and twice by Dumbledore. There is certainly no precedent to say that the word "fiasco" is significantly linked to Dumbledore. However, curious again is that Dumbledore does not use it in any previous books, just the last one.

This along with the proof that JKR has introduced other characters by description rather than by name puts DIATSSISE on very week legs. But . . . this does not rule out the possibility. It could still have happened the way Paintball has described, but there just isn’t proof positive.
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Old 26-05-2007, 13:54   #18
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Thumbs down Re: DIATSSISE Theory

Alright so I sent an email to this guy pointing out that his research was wrong and well ... have a look what he says

(Quoting Simon Smart <notposs@hotmail.com>:

> It turns out that Dumbledore is not the only person to use the word
> fiasco as shown below.
>
> Harry Potter, OOTP, p504, Chapter 26: Seen and Unforeseen
> 'What happened on your date with Cho? How come you were back so
> early?''Er ... well, it was ...' said Harry, pulling a dish of
> rhubarb crumble towards him and helping himself to seconds, 'a
> complete fiasco, now you mention it.'
>
> sorry to pick holes in your theory but I thought you may want to know
>
> notposs

Not a hole as far as I'm concerned. I said:” Fiasco is used three
times by Snape or Dumbledore in the entire series."

Thanks
Paintball)

Well what was the point in saying that. It’s like bringing up evidence to link 2 people together because they have both said "and".
I thought that he thought Dumbledore was the only person to say the word that’s why it had a strong tie to him impersonating Snape. But now I see it’s just totally unrelated.

I now can’t understand why this guy would present this as solid evidence on which to base his theory.
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"He Who Must Not Be Named did great things - terrible, yes, but great."
Ollivander PS/SS p65

"To the Dark Lord I know I will be dead long before you read this but I want you to know that it was I who discovered your secret. I have stolen the real Horcrux and intend to destroy it as soon as I can. I face death in the hope that when you meet your match you will be mortal once more. R.A.B."
R.A.B - HBP p569



Last edited by notposs; 26-05-2007 at 13:56..
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Old 26-05-2007, 19:25   #19
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Re: DIATSSISE Theory

You should have sent him all the stuff I came up with!
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Old 27-05-2007, 02:08   #20
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Re: DIATSSISE Theory

This theory has had me in knots since I read it last week. His manner, tricky lawyer that he is, is such that it is difficult at first not to agree with him.

I reread Spinner's End, and it DOES seem more like Dumbledore's way of speaking than Snapes, but there are times too when he seems too sharp and snappish for Dumblefore - even a DD pretending to be Snape.

Anyway, why I wanted to write was because DD transforming got me thinking about the potions in Slughorn's first class. The was clearly a ready supply of Polyjuice potion on hand, should DD have required it. Now, there was also a fresh batch of Veritaserum - necessarily a fresh brew, because Snape said he had run out a few months before, and that it takes a month to prepare. There is also a love potion.

Now, if we accept this DIATSISSE theory - and the presence of the Polyjuice potion only aids the theory - then it raises a question about what these other potions might have been prepared for.

They could just be there to start the year off with a bang, but perhaps they have been used in unseen and unsuspected schemes, like the Polyjuice potion was.
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