Left Page Border
Makes the header linkable

Go Back   The Final Horcrux > Future Book Speculation > Discussions on general Septology

Discussions on general Septology "The One with the Power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches ... "

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 05-06-2007, 11:51   #1
paintball
TFH Graduate
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Texas
Age: 70
Posts: 23
Rep Power: 0paintball is on a distinguished road

The SS/PS and Deathly Hallows trap theories, A different Perspective

This thread is to discuss my SS/PS trap theory and my Deathly Hallows trap theory outlined on my website: DIATSSISE- Harry Potter in the Mystery Genre

The two trap links, the trap trap trap link, the JKR link, the plot link, the wonderland link, and the logic link all pertain to why I have a dfferent perspective of the Harry Potter series then most fans.

Trying to discuss my views on what is logical or illogical often results is some very heated debate. Since my opinion is that many conclusions reached by the majority of the Harry Potter fandom is illogical, my blunt responses has caused me to be banned from many Harry Potter sites. Hopefully since this site is dedicated to the adult Harry Potter fan, the discussion won't get heated.

There is already a thread started on the DIATSSISE theory and it can be discussed here.

Since Alz areed to allow me to link my site to this thread for discussion, I have added this site as a place to come to discuss my theories.

After reading my different perspective on what to expect for Deathly Hallows please feel free to state openly your comments. Don't worry about hurting my feelings since I have pretty thick skin, but please realize that I don't usually worry about hurting someone else's feelings for this very reason. I just assume most adults have thick skin and if they dish it out they can take it.

Thanks

Paintball
paintball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2007, 07:08   #2
Mr_Bandman
TFH Graduate
 
Mr_Bandman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Virginia, USA
Age: 51
Posts: 165
Rep Power: 12Mr_Bandman is on a distinguished road

Re: The SS/PS and Deathly Hallows trap theories, A different Perspective

I have read bits & pieces of your theories, and I am intrigued by your vantage point. I am going to try to sit down and digest the whole of it over the weekend, and I will post a response after I've had time to filter it all through.

I appreciate the new avenue---it makes it more fun and, even when tensions occassionally run high, more cathartic. My entire reason in spending time on sites such as this one is to remove myself from reality for a bit----I can't watch reality TV---I have enough reality in my life, thank you very much. Having said that, I hope your theories (as well as those of anyone else who cares to post) make me think, make me wince, make me laugh, and even make me angry----I may argue, and you may even sense my reproach, but I will not seek to have you banned----I like debating with smart people who don't agree with me. It is part of the catharsis of diving headlong into this silly business, and I can't get enough of it.

More later, after I've read more.....
Mr_Bandman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2007, 21:17   #3
Piper
TFH Graduate
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Age: 48
Posts: 389
Rep Power: 13Piper is on a distinguished road

Re: The SS/PS and Deathly Hallows trap theories, A different Perspective

I have read your theory on your website, and I did enjoy it. I too am going to have to think on this for a few days. But I do not like the theory that Dumbledore was dying anyway and ordered Snape to kill him either, I too am going to be very disappointed if that is what JKR has gone with for the final book. I have always thought there were twists in there as well.

One thing I can think of too is that if you are correct, maybe Dumbledore's dying hand was the result of having taken an unbreakable vow in the name of someone he was impersonating. Or from having taken an unbreakavow that would kill himself. That dying hand has always bothered me a great deal. And your theory sure would explain Wormtail's presence at Snape's house, that has always bothered me a great deal as well. And this fits in that Wormtail owes Harry the life debt, and could have felt it necessary to feed information to Dumbledore to help save Harry. His presence in the life of Voldemort goes back further than PoA too, since he was the one who gave up the secret location of the Potters in the first place. There surely is a lot that could be gained from Dumbledore having access to Wormtail. And offering the drinks with all of the politeness was a great catch. But like I said, I need time to think this over too
Piper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2007, 20:20   #4
paintball
TFH Graduate
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Texas
Age: 70
Posts: 23
Rep Power: 0paintball is on a distinguished road

Re: The SS/PS and Deathly Hallows trap theories, A different Perspective

Thanks Mr_Bandman and Piper for reading my trap theories. The objection to the trap theory that I most often hear is the response that Dumbledore would never use Harry as bait. I just don't look at the trap concept as Dumbledore doing anything wrong. When you think about it, it is actually more protective of Harry then assigning him the job of going out in the world with no backup or support hoping that he is able to survive Voldemort's attempts to kill him. The trap theory in my opinion actually is the best if not the only chance for Harry to live.
paintball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2007, 06:08   #5
Rory
TFH Graduate
 
Rory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: pacing outside the room of requirement
Posts: 55
Rep Power: 12Rory is on a distinguished road

Re: The SS/PS and Deathly Hallows trap theories, A different Perspective

Speaking of bait, it's tough to fish if you love the worm.

In OOTP:
"Do you see, Harry? Do you see the flaw in my brilliant plan now? I had fallen into the trap I had foreseen, that I had told myself I could avoid, that I must avoid."
"I cared about you too much," said Dumbledore simply. "I cared more for your happiness than your knowing the truth, more for your peace of mind than my plan, more for your life than the lives that might be lost if the plan failed. In other words, I acted exactly as Voldemort expects we fools who love to act."

Of course Harry is bait. Dumbledore isn't being cold, just very logical. The prophecy, which Voldemort believes in, made Harry the bait. Dumbledore simply planned to use that which was already in place. Then, the whole 'gleam of triumph' fits. Even after being turned into Vapermort the first time, Voldemort still came back and took the bait.
__________________
"If you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you."
Friedrich Nietzsche
Rory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2007, 06:38   #6
Sirius Potter Fan
Night Patroll
 
Sirius Potter Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tulsa, OK USA
Age: 52
Posts: 1,690
Rep Power: 14Sirius Potter Fan is on a distinguished road

Re: The SS/PS and Deathly Hallows trap theories, A different Perspective

Although I have only had the chance to read the SS/PS trap theory, I do agree that it is true. We didn't call it a trap, but we do have a thread on here . . . I think it is "Dumbledore set it all up" or something to that tune" where we discussed the clues that point to Dumbledore setting things up to happen from the hearing of the prophesy. That he set up all the events in Godricks Hollow and everything from then on. Dumbledore is as crafty as they come, and not likely to sit idly by and see what happens.
__________________
Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
His memory will live on . . .




There is no place I know to compare with pure imagination; living there you'll be free, if you truly wish to be.
_Willy Wonka

Murphy's Law: "Whatever can go wrong, will."

Mad-eye Moody's Law: "Murphy was an optimist!"
Sirius Potter Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2007, 05:34   #7
paintball
TFH Graduate
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Texas
Age: 70
Posts: 23
Rep Power: 0paintball is on a distinguished road

Re: The SS/PS and Deathly Hallows trap theories, A different Perspective

Another big point regulary raised by the adament fantasy fans who are adament that "Harry must save the world" is this part of the Mugglenet Interview:

Quote:
MA: Here at the end you sort of get the feeling that we know what Harry’s setting out to do, but can this really be the entire throughline of the rest of the story?
JKR: It's not all of it. Obviously it's not all of it, but still, that is the way to kill Voldemort. That's not to say it won't be extremely an torturous and winding journey, but that's what he's got to do. Harry now knows — well he believe he knows – what he’s facing. Dumbledore's guesses are never very far wide of the mark. I don't want to give too much away here, but Dumbledore says, ‘There are four out there, you've got to get rid of four, and then you go for Voldemort.’ So that's where he is, and that's what he's got to do.
ES: It's a tall order.
JKR: It's a huge order. But Dumbledore has given him some pretty valuable clues and Harry, also, in the course of previous six books has amassed more knowledge than he realizes. That's all I am going to say.
ES: It seems like it would be impossible. If Harry had gone to the cave, he never could have done it on his own, it seems like.
JKR: Well, I'm prepared to bet you now, that at least before the week is out, at least one of the Horcruxes will have been correctly identified by careful re-readers of the books. http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2005/0705-tlc_mugglenet-anelli-3.htm
JKR does seem to say that Harry has been assigned the job of saving the world by Dumbledore. This is clearly the impression she intended to leave at the conclusion of HBP, and since I believe this is misdirection, I wonder what a mystery writer is supposed to do if she discusses her mystery half way through the book. Is she allowed without lying to her readers to discuss the book under the concept of the misdirection?

Notice how Emerson's naatural instinct of logic at the end causes him to question the reasonableness of what his mind tells him would be an idiot plot. I can't think of a more evasive answer then the one given by JKR.

I am curious if others believe this statement by JKR would be considered a lie to her readers if the Deathly Hallows trap theory turns out to be correct.
paintball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-06-2007, 06:01   #8
Sirius Potter Fan
Night Patroll
 
Sirius Potter Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tulsa, OK USA
Age: 52
Posts: 1,690
Rep Power: 14Sirius Potter Fan is on a distinguished road

Re: The SS/PS and Deathly Hallows trap theories, A different Perspective

Something just occured to me while reading another thread. As a mother of 5, I have learned the value of implementing reverse psychology in the right circumstances. Knowing where Riddle was headed early on, did Dumbledore perhaps use reverse psychology on Tom directing him to do some of the things he did in order to ultimately make him weaker? Perhaps to steer him away from the true ways of becoming "imortal" he banned all information and discussion of Horcruxes at Hogwarts to make it more apealing to Riddle. We know that Riddle's biggest flaw is in not considering all options before he acts.
__________________
Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
His memory will live on . . .




There is no place I know to compare with pure imagination; living there you'll be free, if you truly wish to be.
_Willy Wonka

Murphy's Law: "Whatever can go wrong, will."

Mad-eye Moody's Law: "Murphy was an optimist!"
Sirius Potter Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-06-2007, 15:06   #9
paintball
TFH Graduate
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Texas
Age: 70
Posts: 23
Rep Power: 0paintball is on a distinguished road

Re: The SS/PS and Deathly Hallows trap theories, A different Perspective

Sirius Potter Fan there is a seven part editorial on Mugglenet discussin the Dumbledore Planned Everything concept here

This sounds very similar to the thread on this forum you were discussing. I liked the logic of these theories, but since the author looks at the series from the viewpoint of Dumbledore preparing Harry for his ulitmate destiny of facing Voldemort (Something I don't believe Dumbledore believed) I couldn't accept most of his conclusions. They are, however, very good essays and worth reading.


It seems clear from the cover art of Deathly Hallows that the trio are going to have some exciting and dangerous adventures in Deathly Hallows. JKR has clearly written Deathly Hallows either as a straight fantasy adventure as most people believe or somewhere in the middle between my Deathly Hallows trap perspective and the fantasy adventure perspective. I don't know if it is possible to guess how much of each perspective is included and whether the book is going to have more fantasy adventure then reality or more reality then fantasy. I don't care, so long as when the book ends she has had all the adult characters (especially Dumbledore) act in a logical and reasonable manner. JKR could easily cause this to happen with some revelation that I haven't even considered, but since the Deathly Hallows trap theory is the only theory I have thought of to cause this to occur I'm going to stick with this theory unless I read some other theory that also causes this to happen.

Last edited by paintball; 22-06-2007 at 15:09..
paintball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-06-2007, 20:01   #10
Alz
Head Unspeakable
 
Alz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast US, originally UK!!
Age: 43
Posts: 7,108
Rep Power: 10Alz is on a distinguished road

Re: The SS/PS and Deathly Hallows trap theories, A different Perspective

Actually I have also read this theory and I like it - maybe for different reasons.
I am a firm believer there is more to Dumbledore than meets the eye and that these hidden elements reflect in a less than positive light on Dumbledore's intentions.
Given what you are saying in your theory about using Harry as nothing more than bait on a hook - I would have to agree, it would conform to some of the idea's behind DiE.
I also question - did Dumbledore really believe an 11, 12, 13, 14 ... well you get the picture - a child so young could really bring about the downfall of such a powerful wizard?
Nope - he is using Harry as a pawn in this chess game!
__________________
'It's all my fault, all my fault'
'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

Dumbledore - HBP Pg536

'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
Alz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


  Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All times are GMT -8. The time now is 22:16.
Style Designed by Epic Designz
 
 

Harry Potter & all associated names and images remain the property of J.K Rowling, Bloomsbury Publishers UK and AOL Time Warner.All other logos and trademarks in this site are property of their respective owner. The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2005 by The Final Horcrux.
You are not permitted to hotlink/hyperlink any images from the site.
Please respect the intellectual rights of The Final Horcrux. You must contact the webmaster/administrator of The Final Horcrux if you wish to take any part of the site and contents for reproduction on another site, forum, or other web presence. Any site that plagiarises The Final Horcrux will be subject to a complaint being registered against them.
 

Right Page Border