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Discussions on general Septology "The One with the Power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches ... "

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Old 25-06-2007, 13:29   #11
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Re: The SS/PS and Deathly Hallows trap theories, A different Perspective

There is no doubt but that Dumbledore is setting things up, and has been for some time. He knows Dark Wizards and how they work, he himself has already defeated Grindewald (curious that we don't know any more about him) Anyway, with DD counting on Voldemort's hold on the prophecy, and working him to where he wants him. Dumbledore has also groomed Harry to be what he needs to be when the time comes. However it works out, I know it will be brilliant . . . Dumbledore is brilliant . . . and even more important, JKR is brilliant!
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Old 25-06-2007, 15:20   #12
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Re: The SS/PS and Deathly Hallows trap theories, A different Perspective

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Originally Posted by Sirius Potter Fan View Post
There is no doubt but that Dumbledore is setting things up, and has been for some time. He knows Dark Wizards and how they work, he himself has already defeated Grindewald (curious that we don't know any more about him) Anyway, with DD counting on Voldemort's hold on the prophecy, and working him to where he wants him. Dumbledore has also groomed Harry to be what he needs to be when the time comes. However it works out, I know it will be brilliant . . . Dumbledore is brilliant . . . and even more important, JKR is brilliant!
I have been thinking that Dumbledore intentionally had Snape tell Voldemort about the prophecy to set up a trap that went wrong resulting is Neville's parents being tortured into insanity and James and Liley being killed. Here are the two excerpts from the books that have caused me to start believing that this is a distinct possibility:

Quote:
“My – our – one stroke of good fortune was that the eavesdropper was detected only a short way into the prophecy and thrown from the building."
"He only heard the first part, the part foretelling the birth of a boy in July to parents who had thrice defied Voldemort. Consequently he could not warn his master that to attack you would be to risk transferring power to you – again marking you as his equal."
(page 843, OoTP, U.S. hardcover)
...and...

Quote:
"Dumbledore did me the courtesy of calling upon me in my room. He questioned me… I must confess that, at first, I thought he seemed ill-disposed towards Divination… and I remember I was starting to feel a little odd, I had not eaten much that day… but then…" And now Harry was paying attention properly for the first time, for he knew what had happened then: Professor Trelawney made the prophecy that had altered the course of his whole life, the prophecy about him and Voldemort.
"… but then we were rudely interrupted by Severus Snape!"

"What?"

"Yes, there was a commotion outside the door and it flew open, and there was that rather uncouth barman standing with Snape, who was waffling about having come the wrong way up the stairs."
(page 544, 545, HBP, U.S. hardcover)
Do you see what I see? We know Trelawney goes into a trance when she is making a prophecy. In POA, she didn't even remember making the prophecy to Harry. This means that Snape couldn't have just heard the first part of the prophecy and was then ejected. This means that Dumbledore lied to Harry.

I am starting to suspect that Snape was already working for Dumbledore at this time and Dumbledore had Snape tell Voldemort about the first part of the prophecy to set up a trap. Since Neville's parents were Aurors, I suspect that it was believed that Voldemort would go after Neville. I suspect that the plan was to keep James, Liley, and Harry safe while the Longbottoms and Dumbledore set up their trap. Everything went wrong.

I haven't spent any time on this thought, but I really do like the possibility of something like this revealed by JKR.

Last edited by paintball; 26-06-2007 at 07:16..
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Old 25-06-2007, 15:30   #13
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Re: The SS/PS and Deathly Hallows trap theories, A different Perspective

Paintball, you need to find the thread on how Dumbledore set it all up. do a search . . . I could find it, but I have never been good at posting a link to other threads on this site. Alz? can you help?
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Old 04-07-2007, 08:09   #14
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Re: The SS/PS and Deathly Hallows trap theories, A different Perspective

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Originally Posted by Sirius Potter Fan View Post
Paintball, you need to find the thread on how Dumbledore set it all up. do a search . . . I could find it, but I have never been good at posting a link to other threads on this site. Alz? can you help?
Which thread are you looking for SPF?
What was the context or flow of the thread and then I can try and find it
Cheers
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Old 04-07-2007, 08:30   #15
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Re: The SS/PS and Deathly Hallows trap theories, A different Perspective

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Paintball, you need to find the thread on how Dumbledore set it all up. do a search . . . I could find it, but I have never been good at posting a link to other threads on this site. Alz? can you help?
I did a search and found this old thread. I think this is the one you were referring to.

After reading the thread I find that I agree with some, but not many of the conclusions reached on that thread. For some reason Fudge's comment in chapter 1 of HBP that aurors had been searching for Voldemort for decades jumped right out at me when I first read it. Maybe this is because I have always looked at SS/PS as a trap even before the release of HBP. When I realized recently that Dumbledore had to have been lying to Harry about Snape only hearing the first part of the prophecy, this has caused me to believe that he had Snape tell Voldemort about the first part of the prophecy to bring Voldemort out of hiding and into a trap or ambush which didn't go exactly like planned even though some good did come out of the trap or ambush, just not what was planned.

I think that both the Potters and the Longbottoms were a part of this plan. Since I see traps everywhere I look (See my trap, trap and more traps section of the DIASSISE site) I tend to think this plan was a trap even before the SS/PS trap that I have listed as the first trap in this section of my site. If anyone wants to help me come up with an additional trap paragraph in this section of my site I will give them credit. I haven't liked anything I've written on this proposed trap yet.
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Old 10-07-2007, 22:52   #16
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Re: The SS/PS and Deathly Hallows trap theories, A different Perspective

The more I think about this, the more I like the idea that Snape and Dumbledore had switched places when Narcissa and Bella showed up in Spinner's End. And I am not so sure that did not carry on longer, because at one point, Dumbledore says to Harry something like, "Yes blessed with the extraordinary intelligence that I have, I managed to understand everything that you have told me" and that just SOOOO reminds me of something Snape would say!

As for the theory that Dumbledore set it up, I think so too now.

I think it was more of a case of Dumbledore hearing the prophecy, and realizing he could arrange things so that he would sacrifie the lives of Lily and James to rid the world of Voldemort, who was an even bigger threat to the world than Grindewald had been. The lives of two against the lives of thousands and thousands.

I think he used a time turner to arrange for Snape to be there to hear the first part of that prophecy, and his brother to ensure that Snape did not hear the rest of it. I think Dumbledore also used the time turner that night in the cottage to get Aunt Petunia in there to accept Harry as her own after Lily was killed but before the AK curse could hit Harry, (invisibility cloak). This would explain the letter mystery with Aunt Petunia, in which there were letters to Petunia only.

I think wormtail has been working with Dumbledore all along, he was the original double agent here, he gave up the secret location on the order of Dumbledore.

But I do not think that Dumbledore realized that there were Horcruxes in play until the AK curse rebounded and Voldemort didn't really die. I am not ready for the whole DiE theory. Or that he in any way expected the lives of the Longbottoms to be involved.

Ok, I am done. It is a good thing this book is about to come out very soon
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Old 11-07-2007, 04:56   #17
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Re: The SS/PS and Deathly Hallows trap theories, A different Perspective

I agree with your last sentence most.

The more I think about it, the less I like the idea of DD and Snape switching places (sorry, paintball). I think it makes the whole plot unnecessarily complicated.
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