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Discussions on Goblet of Fire "I don't know who put my name in the Goblet of Fire ..."

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Old 13-12-2005, 20:28   #11
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Re: The Helping hand and debt repaid?

how the hand fits in. . . what I see is conflict. Peter owes Harry, the hand is from/of Voldemort. Could wormtail try to help Harry, but the hand somehow will not allow him? Might Peter be forced to die by Voldemorts hand, or to again cut off his hand?
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Old 14-12-2005, 05:21   #12
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Re: The Helping hand and debt repaid?

Well I feel like a dunce I just realized that I wasn't taking something into account here-Legilimency! What if the reason Peter wouldn't look into Harry's eyes was because he didn't want Voldemort to know what he was doing via Harry? Put with the metaphor of the hand-this is compelling! If he was helping Harry here-does this mean he's behaving like a Gryffindor now? I wonder if this has anything to do with why he's at Snape's?
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Old 14-12-2005, 13:23   #13
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Re: The Helping hand and debt repaid?

.. as in Voldemort is not sure he could trust him?
Was that the implication there - perhaps Voldemort was working out how Harry got away and came to the same conclusion as me
I like the extra point about Legilimency - tis true to say that even Dumbledore avoided looking at Harry in the eye throughout OoTP for the very same reason - he didnt want Voldemort looking in ... same as Pettigrew would not want the boss to know he gave a helping hand to Harry ...
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Old 14-12-2005, 15:13   #14
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Re: The Helping hand and debt repaid?

Exactly That makes more sense to me than thinking Peter is really going to spy on Snape(Try to spy-said the spider to the fly ) One thing Voldemort's not is stupid. Makes you wonder why Voldemort wouldn't just kill Peter! Is there some reason for keeping him alive?
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Old 15-12-2005, 02:16   #15
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Re: The Helping hand and debt repaid?

As I remember, Snape and Wormtail had a slight discussion about which of them could go to Voldemort and have Wormtail assigned a different task than 'making drinks' for Snape. If Voldemort suspected Wormtail helped Harry, I doubt Wormtail would feel like he could still go to his master and ask for a more challenging task. However, it could also have served as a reminder to Wormtail that Voldemort's patience with him is limited, and that he does suspect him.

I understand what you are getting at in the OP though. What we see come out of the wand is pointing us to Peter straight away. Wasn't it Peter who brought Frank into the room? Was it Peter who killed the spare?
When I think about it, his hand, then Cedric who died at his hand, Frank Bryce was killed when Peter's hands turned the chair...at any point, Peter could have defied his master and finished it. These all happened after Harry spared his life. Perhaps he saw his chance when Voldemort was reborn. He has been using Voldemort's wand up to this point, so I don't see why he'd have any trouble using Harry's. I have (I think) always believed that Peter was responsible for changing the port key (if it isn't just an oversight of JK), but I don't think he has paid that life debt yet. He tried, but he couldn't know for sure that Harry would still survive.
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Old 15-12-2005, 12:29   #16
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Re: The Helping hand and debt repaid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kashlie
As I remember, Snape and Wormtail had a slight discussion about which of them could go to Voldemort and have Wormtail assigned a different task than 'making drinks' for Snape. If Voldemort suspected Wormtail helped Harry, I doubt Wormtail would feel like he could still go to his master and ask for a more challenging task. However, it could also have served as a reminder to Wormtail that Voldemort's patience with him is limited, and that he does suspect him.
I think was a class A example of Snape's sarcasm - he says to Wormtail perhaps he should go see the Dark Lord knowing that Pettigrew cannot - Snape might suspect that Wormtail is under suspicion - while of course Pettigrew thinks the same ... I see no reason why maybe even Voldemort didn't hint it to both as well - chance of them both sitting down and discussing that the Dark Lord said about the other is not really an option right?
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'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

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'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
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Old 16-12-2005, 04:21   #17
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Re: The Helping hand and debt repaid?

Not only is Snape an expert at sarcasm-he has an extremely funny sarcastic wit! It's very subtle but when reading him as something other than the evil being Harry thinks he is-well I've fallen off my chair laughing!
You know looking at Peter on Harry's side, looking at Snape in a different light, and some other intriguing ideas-I'm starting to get the feeling that Harry has more help than he realizes! What do you think?
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Old 17-12-2005, 01:05   #18
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Re: The Helping hand and debt repaid?

Harry is given help from many sources - many of which he knows and can identify - but there is still those that sit on the edge - Snape is a classic example and now maybe Wormtail.
I dont want to drift too far from the plot on this - I just wanted to add a little more weight behind many people's thoughts that Wormtail was in fact the once that helped Harry that night
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'Please make it stop, I know I did wrong, oh, please make it stop and i'll never, never again..'
'Don't hurt them, don't hurt then, please, please, it's my fault, hurt me instead ...'
'Please, please, please, no ... not that, not that, I'll do anything ...'

Dumbledore - HBP Pg536

'Merely taking your life would not satisfy me..'
Dumbledore - OoTP "The only one he ever feared" Pg895
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